Looking at putting offer in on boat - Advise needed

[Tom and Bex]

Hi, Need some advise on this boat that we are looking at. It's this one.

 

Have been to take a second look and both really like it and are thinking of putting an offer on it but not sure what would be a reasonable starting offer. It needs the back cabin completely refitting and the bathroom and bedroom need refitting as well. It's had the bottom replated at the back 5 years ago and survey then said the rest of the bottom would probably need doing after the next 5 years (i.e. now!) We would of course get a full hull survey done. Roughly what would replating the remaining half of the bottom cost? Sides were fine with very little pitting on the last survey.

 

Have had a search of the forum and picked up loads of useful advice about what to look for. One concern is it has poured concrete ballast in the back half of the boat with tiles or laminate floor put straight on top. From what can be seen it seems original and no signs of any damage to concrete. Front half of floor is ply and looks dry but rusty underneath (but unable to lift all of it). No sign of water anywhere inside boat.

 

Are we completely mad to be considering a boat like this? We are thinking of visiting boat for 3-4days every other week to do the work with some work done in my workshop at home in between. Where would we be able to do the work - do marinas let you refit part of the boat on your mooorings? Any mooring recomendations in the area? I'm tempted to get the cheapest mooring I can for the first year to do the work and maybe cruise to a remote spot on the canal when I visit so as not to disturb anyone (and get some use out of the boat!)

 

Sorry for all the questions. We would be looking to live aboard in about a years time when the work is complete and wife has finished her nursing training but may move the boat to different area depending what job opportunities there are for her.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Tom and Bex

[Naughty Cal]

With regards to what would be a sensible offer, ask yourself what the maximum you would be willing to pay is then start negotiations at a lower price. If you are not embarrassed to put in the offer it isnt low enough.

[churchward]

If you are really serious about the boat and want to consider buying then get a full survey done. Although it will cost you it will give you the answers you need to hear and if all OK give you confidence in the boat and could even give you some negotiation options on the price.

[RLWP]

Have we been asked about that boat before on here? The name is distinctive, and I'm sure I've seen those horrible mesh doors before

 

Richard

[Grace and Favour]

i fully realise that different boats appeal to different peeps - - but I feel their asking price is way too high - seriously too high - particularly for that age of boat.

 

- I'd offer £12k - and be aware of the amount of work I'd need to do to it.

[Naughty Cal]

If you are seriously interested in this boat (and different boats appeal to different people) get a survey done. The surveyor will usually give an indication as to his valuation of the vessel. This can then be used as leverage to discuss the sale price.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

Have been to take a second look and both really like it and are thinking of putting an offer on it but not sure what would be a reasonable starting offer. It needs the back cabin completely refitting and the bathroom and bedroom need refitting as well. It's had the bottom replated at the back 5 years ago and survey then said the rest of the bottom would probably need doing after the next 5 years (i.e. now!) We would of course get a full hull survey done. Roughly what would replating the remaining half of the bottom cost? Sides were fine with very little pitting on the last survey.

<snip>

 

Tom and Bex

 

If it is any help, it cost us about £2500 to have four lengths of steel welded to the hull - two about 6"x12' and two about 6" x 6'

 

Hull repairs are expensive

 

So you are looking at an old boat that may need hull repairs and does need a partial refit. That's without getting into any detailed stuff from the survey. She's priced too high I'm afraid

 

Richard

 

I'm sure we have discussed his boat before

[Lady Muck]

i fully realise that different boats appeal to different peeps - - but I feel their asking price is way too high - seriously too high - particularly for that age of boat.

 

- I'd offer £12k - and be aware of the amount of work I'd need to do to it.

 

I agree - I think at the 25+ years old mark there are many overpriced boats out there - especially in London.

[luctor et emergo]

Is the picture of the engine reversed? I can't get my head around the flywheel seeming to be at the front?

 

Poured concrete sounds like bad news to me. Any water that gets between the concrete and steel will try to eat it's way out....

 

Depending on how much steel needs overplating at the bottom, get a quote from a few yards. I have seen figures between £3000 and £7000. (including boat out, and blacking).

 

If you are happy with the amount of work that the fit-out needs, and you can negotiate a good price (subject to survey), have a good survey done. If the owner is not happy to negotiate, walk away. I tend to agree with previous posters, £12.000 seems a better figure. On the face of it, and you can use this in your negotiation, it needs a full re-fit, because the salon looks tired too. Offer £10000 (subject to survey), and see how the vendor reacts.

[dizzypanic]

Something else to consider. I looked at that boat with a similar view to yourselves. Take a look at the front starboard (right i think...) window. There were a couple of big cracks at the corners when I looked at her. That said, and as others have mantioned a survey is a good idea, good luck with your search.

 

Dizzy

 

Something else to consider. I looked at that boat with a similar view to yourselves. Take a look at the front starboard (right i think...) window. There were a couple of big cracks at the corners when I looked at her. That said, and as others have mantioned a survey is a good idea, good luck with your search.

 

Dizzy

[alan_fincher]

Have we been asked about that boat before on here? The name is distinctive, and I'm sure I've seen those horrible mesh doors before

 

Richard

Yes, it's the infamous "cracks in the cabin sides" boat.

 

Previous thread here (link)

 

The strong advice from those in the know seemed to be "run away!....... FAST!......"

[RLWP]

Something else to consider. I looked at that boat with a similar view to yourselves. Take a look at the front starboard (right i think...) window. There were a couple of big cracks at the corners when I looked at her. That said, and as others have mantioned a survey is a good idea, good luck with your search.

 

Dizzy

 

Thank goodness for that. I thought I'd seen that advert before

 

Richard

 

Thanks Alan, I was just one step ahead of you - only just mind

Edited July 5, 2010 by RLWP

[Tom and Bex]

I'm doing the figures at the moment to work out how much we can afford while still allowing enough for the work to be done. I have searched but can't find reference to this boat being discussed before. I agree that it is overpriced at 25k and was thinking of offering 15k but don't know if that is too low to be taken seriously as it was originally on for 30k (although I was told the owner has outstanding finance on it and needs a quick sale so is open to sensible offers).

 

The mesh doors and the very cheap and badly done pine tounge and groove would be the first to go! It's a shame what he's done as from the bits left over it looks like the original boatmans cabin was really nice. Luckily it seems as if the toungue and groove lining has been fixed on top if the existing and from what I can tell it seems ok underneath - most of what he's put up is falling off already.

[RLWP]

Is the picture of the engine reversed? I can't get my head around the flywheel seeming to be at the front?

<snip>

 

It isn't unusual to take the drive from the other end of a marine engine, which is how this one is installed

 

Richard

[luctor et emergo]

having looked at the linked thread above, the advice must be repeated...

 

run, run, run....

 

This boat looks like it potentially needs to be fully stripped, re-bottomed, and the cabin (which is only 3mm? ) rebuilding.

 

If the owner accepts a stupid (but realistic) offer, and you fancy the project (looks like the boat will need to come out for more than a quick overplate. Possibly on hard standing.) go for it. Otherwise, walk.

[Tom and Bex]

Thanks for replies so far. I noticed those cracks and there seems to be some bucking of the steel around the window in that area. From what I can tell by looking it may have suffered some damage there and the cracks deffinately look like cracked welds. No sign of any damage on the other side or accross the roof although there is a patch on the roof opposite where it looks like the chimney has been moved and a patch welded on.

 

Still interested in this boat and feel like I have the time and skills to bring it up to standard. Would be getting a survey on it before buying and would make any offer subject to survey. What would a full survey tell me above just a hull survey? Bearing in mind most of the interior would be changed or rebuilt.

[RLWP]

<snip>

Still interested in this boat and feel like I have the time and skills to bring it up to standard.

<snip>

 

I feel that I have to explore that statement. How much time and what skills do you have?

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

Still interested in this boat and feel like I have the time and skills to bring it up to standard. Would be getting a survey on it before buying and would make any offer subject to survey. What would a full survey tell me above just a hull survey? Bearing in mind most of the interior would be changed or rebuilt.

I would PM forum member "Wrigglefingers", in view of her "Run Away" comments posted in that other thread.

 

She has fair contact with very good people in the boatbuilding trade, and if they are saying that, I think it's worth finding out if Jill knows why!

 

(Welds should not open up IMO - I personally would run a mile).

[deletedaccount]

It's waaaaaay overpriced. If it needs all the insides ripping out and the outsides heavily repaired then what exactly are you buying?

[luctor et emergo]

It's waaaaaay overpriced. If it needs all the insides ripping out and the outsides heavily repaired then what exactly are you buying?

 

 

A project boat

 

See Paul Cratchpole for details...

 

 

 

:lol:

 

 

 

Thanks for replies so far. I noticed those cracks and there seems to be some bucking of the steel around the window in that area. From what I can tell by looking it may have suffered some damage there and the cracks deffinately look like cracked welds. No sign of any damage on the other side or accross the roof although there is a patch on the roof opposite where it looks like the chimney has been moved and a patch welded on.

 

Still interested in this boat and feel like I have the time and skills to bring it up to standard. Would be getting a survey on it before buying and would make any offer subject to survey. What would a full survey tell me above just a hull survey? Bearing in mind most of the interior would be changed or rebuilt.

 

 

A full survey will check all fittings and fixtures as well as the hull condition. Such as engine condition, plumbing, heating system, gas instalation etc. But you need to specify very exactly with the surveyor what he is to inspoect, and what he will charge. If you are serious about pulling her out of the water do refurbish her, simply concentrate on a hull survey.

[sociable_hermit]

If you're overplating a boat which has been ballasted by pouring in concrete, what happens if the weight of the extra steel makes the boat sit too low?

 

Paving slabs are a lot easier to take out, IMHO.

[deletedaccount]

There are so many boats on the market at the moment I don't understand why you'd buy one that's about to disintegrate before your very eyes?

[wrigglefingers]

I would PM forum member "Wrigglefingers", in view of her "Run Away" comments posted in that other thread.

 

She has fair contact with very good people in the boatbuilding trade, and if they are saying that, I think it's worth finding out if Jill knows why!

 

(Welds should not open up IMO - I personally would run a mile).

 

The link to the previous thread is here

 

The reasons were these

 

1) The boat will require serious amounts of remedial work to both the bottom and the cabin superstructure and this would be very expensive, which, unless you were a handy welder yourself would probably cost more than the boat would be worth. Some really first-rate builders would build you a new hull for only a little more than the suggested purchase price.

 

2) Extent of unseen repair work needed.

 

3) No steelwork should crack in this fashion if correctly fabricated

 

4) The boat is seriously over-priced requiring not only the remedial steelwork but also a near complete refit.

 

5) The general age and quality of the original boat.

 

Even if you were to purchase a boat like this at a considerably reduced price, do you really want the hassle that goes with such a purchase with no guarantee that you will get your money back? There are significantly better boats to be had at this price point which would be a better use of your hard-earned.

 

I do appreciate that when you've seen something you like and can imagine yourself taking on then it's difficult to consider another point of view, but the professionals (amongst the best in the country for building, restoring and painting) at the yard are a realistic lot and are well versed in the ways to take on such a project and yet all of them said the same.

 

Happy searching!

 

PS Luctor - shouldn't that be Cratch'ole?

 

Wx

[WotEver]

Poured concrete sounds like bad news to me. Any water that gets between the concrete and steel will try to eat it's way out....

Agreed. And if we wanted evidence... it's already had the back half of the bottom replaced.

 

I wouldn't offer over £10k for that boat.

 

 

Tony

[Tom and Bex]

If this boat looks too much trouble then where are all the cheap boats for sale? We’re particularly looking for a trad boat with separate engine room and boatmans cabin. Not afraid to do some work on it! What attracted us to this one is it just felt right when we were on it. The previous 2 surveys (1999, 2005) both say the hull was well built with very little pitting and wear to the sides but the bottom (only 6mm originally) has worn to 5.3mm in places with several pits 2mm deep. The bottom has been plated at the back end last time and the survey said it the front was ok for insurance purposes for another 4 years but would likely need doing then. Incidentally the 2005 survey put a value of 36k on the boat so the current owner may be expecting a lot more than the boat is worth now!

 

I was intending to weld the cracks by the window (which I would ask the surveyor about) myself, but don’t feel confident to do the plating at the front if required so would need that doing by boatyard. Once that is done it should be a solid boat for the next few years shouldn’t it? Or am I missing something? Maybe following Wrigglefingers advice we’ll just keep searching.

 

Sorry for the long post and thanks for your help – I have been listening honest! I was thinking of offering 17k and hoping to get it for about 20k but if we still decide we still want a challenge we’ll seriously revise that down now and have a rethink on the whole project. I wouldn’t even have considered offering the full asking price. Seems like you may have saved us a lot of money.

 

Thanks

 

Tom