Looking at putting offer in on boat - Advise needed

[Naughty Cal]

For 20k you should get a nice useable boat that doesnt need all of that work doing. Personally i would keep looking, the owner of this one is trying it on with the price.

[Tom and Bex]

I feel that I have to explore that statement. How much time and what skills do you have?

 

Richard

 

I think now is probably a good time to introduce myself a bit! I have some previous experience of boats – I helped out in the summer holidays on the trip boat and camping boats of Birmingham and Midland Canal Carrying co when I was at college. I also helped out a lot with the local IWA branch in the 90’s with running and repairing their trip boat and during one winter fabricating an extension of the back deck and lifting outboard bracket, and some other general hull repairs including removing some concrete ballast and helping build a wooden cabin for her so am not new to boating as such, although have had a few years gap until we took our first hire boat holiday since getting married and it reminded me how much I love boats and waterways.

 

I am also very practically minded and try to repair just about anything instead of replacing things from electronics to wooden sheds including building a complete interior for my VW camper, rewire, and repair and respray of bodywork.

 

I expect that refitting a boat will be a very steep learning curve but look forward to the challenges it presents and am sure with the help of this forum and a friendly retired carpenter who will help and let me use his fully equipped workshop I should be ok.

 

As for time, I work as a community carer at the moment and would be able to arrange my days off to give me 3.5-4 days off every other weekend.

 

Tom

[Naughty Cal]

What about something like

 

this one

[RLWP]

Taking those peculiar window cracks as an example. That's a welding job - yes. So, first remove the window frame, if you can get the screws out and don't break the glass, hopefully you can leave the window lining in place. Prepare the weld, then weld up the cracks and hope the insulation doesn't catch fire. While you have the welder out better check the other windows too. Grind the weld back, then consider what you are going to do about the paintwork. You could patch paint, but it probably isn't going to match the existing finish. Alternatively, you could get the side, or the whole boat painted - which means all of the other windows coming out. Professional repaint, let's guess £4000.

 

Welcome to boating, deceptively simple things turn out to be difficult or expensive

 

I don't think we have welcomed you to the forum, Hi Tom and Bex and welcome. We're not here to depress you, honestly. You're in the unpleasant part of buying a boat, don't worry, this phase passes when you find the boat that is right for you

 

Richard

[wrigglefingers]

......

 

Welcome to boating, deceptively simple things turn out to be difficult or expensive

 

I don't think we have welcomed you to the forum, Hi Tom and Bex and welcome. We're not here to depress you, honestly. You're in the unpleasant part of buying a boat, don't worry, this phase passes when you find the boat that is right for you

 

Richard

 

Sadly, Richard is right. And I have been remiss too in not welcoming you to the forum.

 

There's this boat on FleaBay at the moment - linky if you're not desparate for the space. Where are you looking for boats? I think there's various lists of brokers and sites somewhere on here - will look for you and you can always get in touch with Dominic Miles at Rugby Boat Sales who is very helpful and may just possibly know about boats that will suit you better. Plus we'll all keep a weather eye out for local boats if you let us know what you want ....

 

We've all fallen deeply in love with something hopelessly unsuitable at various times (even the most hard-bitten) and that's why we're alll so very good at pointing out the pitfalls. Welcome to the darkside!

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

We've all fallen deeply in love with something hopelessly unsuitable at various times <snip>

 

<Sigh>

 

How about this: Apolloduck or this Apolloduck

 

Richard

Edited July 5, 2010 by RLWP

[alan_fincher]

Yes,

 

I also apologise if we manage to look unwelcoming!

 

Welcome!

 

There is a wealth of experience on here, and nobody is likely to try and scare you off a particular boat, unless they have genuine concerns about it, I'm sure.

 

Do you actually need 70 feet, or could you be happy with less.

 

Give some ideas about ideal size, (you have already expressed a preference for trad), and your budget, and I'm sure people will keep their eyes open.

 

Alan

 

(Who bought less than his most ideal boat, and has been trying to make it that for 5 years now!).

 

 

 

<Sigh>

 

How about this: Apolloduck or this Apolloduck

 

Richard

Hmm

 

Not to sure about "Peter Pashke" (whoever he is!), and his abilities to style a "trad" cabin!

 

 

NEXT !

[Naughty Cal]

NEXT !

 

What about the tug i suggested. Any views on that?

[wrigglefingers]

<Sigh>

 

How about this: Apolloduck or this Apolloduck

 

Richard

 

Careful, Richard, it's unseemly to drool in public ...

[RLWP]

What about the tug i suggested. Any views on that?

 

This one?

 

 

Ermmmm...

 

Richard

[Naughty Cal]

This one?

 

 

Ermmmm...

 

Richard

 

With an asking price of 14k and a desperate seller there is a deal to be had on that one.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Phylis

[RLWP]

With an asking price of 14k and a desperate seller there is a deal to be had on that one.

 

Leaving you with what? A boat that has been extended and modified on the whim of the owner into something unattractive

 

I'm afraid that I don't agree that

 

this boat is truly lovely with very nice lines and needs lots of TLC. this boat will look wonderful with the right folks fitting it out and its got huge potential, either for a live-a-board or for selling on at huge profit.

 

Richard

[LEO]

What about the tug i suggested. Any views on that?

 

Hi,

 

Had a look don't think it would suit the posters needs.

 

I do get concerned about all the 'armchair' experts giving advice without the benefit of a close inspection of the subject. Best advice would be to get a full survey from a competent surveyor and make any decision then.

 

Opinions based on photographs and hearsay are about as useful as a chocolate teapot - nearly as useful as 'driveby' valuations carried for lenders.

 

Leo.

[alan_fincher]

With an asking price of 14k and a desperate seller there is a deal to be had on that one.

Yes, that doesn't really surprise me.

 

Cruiser stern ?

Cabin with windows, (or holes for windows).

Curious "under cloth" type bit, (but half way along boat).

Open hold.

Large odd looking box at front.

 

I think they should deck over half the hold, as what it is lacking is a bit of "tug" IMO!

 

Then at least all styles would be nearly catered for in the one boat!

 

Why would you replace the sides on a boat claimed never to have been in the water, and not in need of replacing anyway ?

Edited July 5, 2010 by alan_fincher

[Naughty Cal]

Hi,

 

Had a look don't think it would suit the posters needs.

 

I do get concerned about all the 'armchair' experts giving advice without the benefit of a close inspection of the subject. Best advice would be to get a full survey from a competent surveyor and make any decision then.

 

Opinions based on photographs and hearsay are about as useful as a chocolate teapot - nearly as useful as 'driveby' valuations carried for lenders.

 

Leo.

 

No one is suggesting going out and buying one of these boats on a whim. They are there as examples of cheap boats that need work to bring them back to their former glory which are under the OP's budget. Trawling brokers yards isnt necessarily the best way to stumble across some of these boats, the internet proves to be a useful tool.

 

Yes, that doesn't really surprise me.

 

Cruiser stern ?

Cabin with windows, (or holes for windows).

Curious "under cloth" type bit, (but half way along boat).

Open hold.

Large odd looking box at front.

 

I think they should deck over half the hold, as what it is lacking is a bit of "tug" IMO!

 

Then at least all styles would be nearly catered for in the one boat!

 

Why would you replace the sides on a boat claimed never to have been in the water, and not in need of replacing anyway ?

 

Why would you paint it pink?

[alan_fincher]

I do get concerned about all the 'armchair' experts giving advice without the benefit of a close inspection of the subject. Best advice would be to get a full survey from a competent surveyor and make any decision then.

Not convinced, Mike.

 

This boat has visible cracking of welds in the superstructure, has already had it's price massively cut, and is still not selling.

 

I don't think you need to be any great armchair expert to see from the published details that the asking price is still completely OTT for what it is, and how much work and expenditure would be required.

 

The problem is that a full survey, including getting it out of the water, is likely to use at least £500 or £600 of any money that Tom and Bex might have for buying their boat, (possibly even more, as I think Whilton may be quite expensive to dock at ?

 

Unless a ridiculously cheap deal can be done on this boat, I'm convinced they should walk away, (without leaving my comfy chair, on this one). Save the surveyors fee for something more promising!

 

 

Why would you paint it pink?

I ask that (or why would you paint it mauve or purple) each time I see someone has made that choice.

 

Pink/mauve/lilac/purple seem to be the colours that people with cheaper boats wishing to spruce them up go for more than any other, (although black, often matt black, seems to be gaining it's converts too.....).

[Tom and Bex]

Thanks for the comments. We're looking for a trad boat with boatmans cabin and engine room, don't like modern style trad as find it very hard to get in and out of. There seems lots of cheap cruiser styles around but they don't really appeal to us. Problem we have at the moment is budget. We could afford max of 15-20k now and spend money and time over next 12 months doing it up and making it just what we want or carry on saving and try to buy a boat thats more suited to us and ready to go in 12 months time. We have allowed in that figure enough for survey, moorings, license etc. Whilton charge £190 for slipway and they said survey should cost about £300 for just a hull survey, don't know if that is about average or not?

 

Edited to add:- we don't really need the full 70' but thought the space might be useful for liveaboard. Have been looking at trad boats 60' and up.

 

Cheers

 

Tom

Edited July 5, 2010 by Tom and Bex

[Liza]

Thanks for replies so far. I noticed those cracks and there seems to be some bucking of the steel around the window in that area. From what I can tell by looking it may have suffered some damage there and the cracks deffinately look like cracked welds. No sign of any damage on the other side or accross the roof although there is a patch on the roof opposite where it looks like the chimney has been moved and a patch welded on.

 

Still interested in this boat and feel like I have the time and skills to bring it up to standard. Would be getting a survey on it before buying and would make any offer subject to survey. What would a full survey tell me above just a hull survey? Bearing in mind most of the interior would be changed or rebuilt.

 

Hi. Thought I would add my thoughts in view of what I have found out today.

 

I am getting rid of my white-elephant, (it was given to me by a friend). He bought it without getting a survey first - he was steam-rollered. Now, 3-4 years later I have had her surveyed. She was built in 1976 and has been steadily rusting away FROM THE INSIDE ever since. The outside of the hull is fine but there is nothing behind it. She needs plating and I've had an estimate of 6-7k for a less than 50' boat.

[luctor et emergo]

Hi. Thought I would add my thoughts in view of what I have found out today.

 

I am getting rid of my white-elephant, (it was given to me by a friend). He bought it without getting a survey first - he was steam-rollered. Now, 3-4 years later I have had her surveyed. She was built in 1976 and has been steadily rusting away FROM THE INSIDE ever since. The outside of the hull is fine but there is nothing behind it. She needs plating and I've had an estimate of 6-7k for a less than 50' boat.

 

 

Speaking from my armchair, that is exactly what I cautioned against earlier. The inside, where you can't see, is where a boat rots through.

Poured concrete, on steel, is asking for trouble. big trouble.

#

As an example, I have just pulled up all the flooring boards on my boat (well, the ones that survived the fire..), and the amount of moisture, and rust, underneath is shocking. There are so many nooks and corners under the floor, what with the bearers etc, that moisture will get trapped, and it does not simply run down to the lowest point of the bilge.

 

A hull survey will include the following statements:

 

It was impossible to check the state of the bottom, due to the presence of poured concrete balast. Corrosion is likely to be present underneath. Suggest removal of said ballast, before a thorough inspection is possible.

 

To be honest, unless you strip out the hull, including the concrete, a surveyor will only give an approcimation of the state of the hull. Every piece he can't see, wether through ballast or floorboards, he won't be able to survey.

[deletedaccount]

This one looks decent, it's big too if that's what you're after.

 

1994 68footer - 27.5k

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=151569

 

 

 

(just rip out the horrible lino!)

[Naughty Cal]

This one looks decent, it's big too if that's what you're after.

 

1994 68footer - 27.5k

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=151569

 

 

 

(just rip out the horrible lino!)

 

Its a cruiser stern though

[deletedaccount]

Ah yes. Just read that bit.

 

There's a nice looking old trad on the K&A for sale at 22k, but it's not on apollo duck. At least I can't find it. About 55 foot imo.

 

Proper 100 year old hull, reasonable inside.

 

Ah, here it is. 50foot:

 

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=147312

[Rick-n-Jo]

Perhaps they really WANT to share cabin space with a clapped out* AIR COOLED Lister

 

*presumably "maintained" by the same bloke who can't even nail up an adequate T&G lining...

Edited July 6, 2010 by Rick-n-Jo

[Tom and Bex]

Perhaps they really WANT to share cabin space with a clapped out* AIR COOLED Lister

 

*presumably "maintained" by the same bloke who can't even nail up an adequate T&G lining...

 

We both quite liked the engine! Started very easily and ran smoothly with no smoke and quiter than expected. Don't think previous owner has been near engine as it looks well cared for and not swiming in oil like some boats we have seen, although not so clean that it has obviously been cleaned for sale. Besides I like air cooled listers - have rebuilt one as a generator and parents have one that I look after as a spare pump in case of flooding.

 

Some of the boats posted look good value but not really what we are looking for. Have thought about sailaway and although the shell could be had for not much more than asking price of this boat it would cost a lot more to fit out as you would have to buy all the appliances etc.

 

Still might put in a very low offer of 10-12k and leave it with the vendor to think about. In the mean time we'll keep looking - have a huge list of brokerage and boat for sale sites saved to favourites! Still looking for a trad boat with boatmans cabin and preferably vintage engine if anyone hears of one going cheap!

 

Thanks for your time and advice

 

Tom

[Lady Muck]

We both quite liked the engine! Started very easily and ran smoothly with no smoke and quiter than expected. Don't think previous owner has been near engine as it looks well cared for and not swiming in oil like some boats we have seen, although not so clean that it has obviously been cleaned for sale. Besides I like air cooled listers - have rebuilt one as a generator and parents have one that I look after as a spare pump in case of flooding.

 

Some of the boats posted look good value but not really what we are looking for. Have thought about sailaway and although the shell could be had for not much more than asking price of this boat it would cost a lot more to fit out as you would have to buy all the appliances etc.

 

Still might put in a very low offer of 10-12k and leave it with the vendor to think about. In the mean time we'll keep looking - have a huge list of brokerage and boat for sale sites saved to favourites! Still looking for a trad boat with boatmans cabin and preferably vintage engine if anyone hears of one going cheap!

 

Thanks for your time and advice

 

Tom

 

I would still run, fast in the opposite direction - having seen your budget, even if you pay £10 or £12k, it might be so expensive to repair it will blow your budget.

 

Why not ask around boatyards? Some of the best bargains to be had never make it into advertisements or onto the internet. There could be boats sitting around on hardstanding that you don't know about until you ask at a boatyard. Thats how any of my boating friends aquired their bargain boats. I may be wrong, but brokerages don't seem to be the best place to find budget/project boats - they always seem so grossly overpriced, to me.

 

ETA if I had known earlier, one of my fellow moorers lost his job and had to sell his 50 foot 2002 nb cheap - it failed a BSC and he sold it for £10k - they then got the boat compliant and sold it on for £15k. The hull was in great nick, he'd just had 2 pack applied last year. It had a dreadful paintjob anda poor fit out but still such a bargain. At least now we know we can look out for bargains like this for you.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Lady Muck