Axiom Props. Any Feedback

[Guest]

I wondered if anybody has fitted an Axiom prop., and whether they have lived up to the makers claims?

[Albion]

I wondered if anybody has fitted an Axiom prop., and whether they have lived up to the makers claims?

 

I was only thinking the other day that, after the lengthy thread we had peviously, it had gone very quiet from those who were going to/had fitted them. IIRC Gibbo was going to fit one and report back............are you there Chris?

Roger

[Eeyore]

I wondered if anybody has fitted an Axiom prop., and whether they have lived up to the makers claims?

Hi Catweasel

I can give an overview of a boat that I'm familiar with.

43' narrowboat, Isuzu 25 (the newer Yanmar based unit) with prm 80 box.

Owner says that vibration through tiler virtualy eleminated, and that performance astern is improved (stopping distance improved with less tendency for stern to swing to one side).

Their journey to this new "improved state" was less impressive.

The first prop supplied was found to be so badly matched that the engine would bearly rev above idle when in gear! (I would speculate that the yard had no point of reference when looking at the prop to indicate it was correct or not.)

Steve

[Tony Brooks]

I wondered if anybody has fitted an Axiom prop., and whether they have lived up to the makers claims?

 

 

One of the students on a course 2 weeks ago had one and said it pretty much did as claimed.

[Gibbo]

I was indeed going to have one fitted. A million other things got in the way and I simply haven't had time. It's still on the list of wants though.

[bag 'o' bones]

Axiom have been on the the market for enough time for negative feedback to filter through the boating community and to date i've not heard of any seriously negative experiences.

 

Lets face it whn a new product is launched if it does not live up to its claims then there exsistance is usually short lived.

 

I'm not sure whether it worth upgrading to an axiom if you are happy with a standard propeller, but if you need a new one due to breakage or as part of a new build then it might be worth the expense.

[alan_fincher]

Axiom have been on the the market for enough time for negative feedback to filter through the boating community and to date i've not heard of any seriously negative experiences.

 

Lets face it whn a new product is launched if it does not live up to its claims then there exsistance is usually short lived.

 

But conversely, if it was really as much of an improvement as it's marketers claim, would you not expect to see some independent publicity that actually supported the point.

 

Or even hear that some were specifying them on new builds.

 

 

Their journey to this new "improved state" was less impressive.

The first prop supplied was found to be so badly matched that the engine would bearly rev above idle when in gear!

Hardly impressive is it ?

 

I can't remember reading "Crowthers suggested a prop which when fitted nearly killed my engine stone dead".

 

If as much "design" has gone into these as the makers claim, you might think they had some chance of recommending a correct sizing at the outset, surely ?

[bottle]

Still not convinced, from all the snippets our have heard, read etc. The only thing that they may do better than a properly designed and matched propeller is the boat stops quicker, in an emergency.

 

I will just be vigilant and try not to get into an emergency situation.

 

Their advertising has been toned down, all the original claims seem to have been watered down reduced.

[mykaskin]

One of the students on a course 2 weeks ago had one and said it pretty much did as claimed.

 

The problem is that many boats are poorly prop'ed, and so anything is an improvement. I'd like to see if they could improve on my new prop, but they are unable to make props big enough, or at least they were last year.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[ditchcrawler]

Still not convinced, from all the snippets our have heard, read etc. The only thing that they may do better than a properly designed and matched propeller is the boat stops quicker, in an emergency.

 

I will just be vigilant and try not to get into an emergency situation.

 

Their advertising has been toned down, all the original claims seem to have been watered down reduced.

A boat on the hard, being blacked at Debdale had one. I asked the owner if he was happy with it, but he has not used it yet. Brand new. I was looking to see if the corners were knocked off it.

[KenLyn]

I wondered if anybody has fitted an Axiom prop., and whether they have lived up to the makers claims?

We fitted one a fortnight ago and are really pleased with it, although we did change the engine from a 1300 Yanmar to a 2.2 Perkins (404-22), fitted an aquadrive and a hospital silencer, so the boat is vastly different anyway. All I can say is it stops on a sixpence, barely any rudder shake, wouldn't know about reversing yet as it has been very windy on the river. If it performs as well as other boats in the club with them fitted I will be happy.

[bottle]

There you go.

 

I hope it works for you but the only thing I can see that it may have had any effect on is the 'stopping on a sixpence' all the other betterments could be the new engine, Aquadrive realignment of prop-shaft etc.

[jonk]

Must be a fair number fitted by now! Anyone got any other news about their capabilities? Most reports do seem to be positive but some could be due to other alterations done at the same time. What we need is some boats that have just had the prop changed and an unbiased assessment of before and after - any volunteers?

[DHutch]

I wouldnt be that supprised if there still arnt very many.

- People, partiuarlarly in thi sot of feild, tend to be very stuck in there ways. And there not cheap.

- When burnell designed the propellors for ss gb, they where fairly spot on, and it sticks to this day.

 

 

Daniel

[barroca grande]

I've got one fitted but as the boat is new I don't really know if it is better than the share boat we had previously simply because it is a Mel Davis with better swims or because of the axiom prop or because of the different rudder I have had made (an approximation of a Schilling Rudder as per Daniel) but the boat steers lovely.

 

When I spun it around in the marina the other day to have the signwriting put on reverse was really weird as there was no wash AT ALL even with rudder hard over for the spin. I kept checking it really had engaged then would realise it must have done as the banks/moored boats were approaching really quite fast! Engage forward gear pronto!

 

First turn had us going forwards onto the pontoon second turn we reversed back onto the pontoon again I was very impressed with myself as I have not steered the boat since we brought it to the Marina in November.

 

So not had to reverse any great distance or in adverse conditions but so far very pleased with it.

[nb Innisfree]

Not sure what 'stopping on a sixpence' means, our 60' 18+ ton nb stops in 50' from flat out with 35+ bhp @ 2,800rpm going into a standard prop. Does that qualify?

[Laurence Hogg]

I wondered if anybody has fitted an Axiom prop., and whether they have lived up to the makers claims?

 

Some years ago Peter Jones who ran Midland Chandlers aquired a quantity of ex RN Torpedo props. The one thing that stuck in my mind about them was the squared off blade as against conventional design. I can clearly remember he had very good reports off those that purchased them. to my eyes this Axiom design certainly relects what Peter had purchased. Anyone any views on this?

[DHutch]

Not sure what 'stopping on a sixpence' means.

Clearly it means, at the end of the stop, the entire lenght of boat, combined with the stoping distance, is less than the diameter of a sixpence.

 

Emilyanne will stop in her own lenght (22ton 58ft) from flat out all, with a 20ihp steam engine. Proberbly half that.

She all produces no reall wash or rooster tail at full power, and will out acclerate most boats ive ever driven.

Bog standard high aspect ratio crowther prop.

 

 

Daniel

[jonk]

Hmmm - still no 'before and after' cases with just a prop change?

Has anyone got any influence with Axiom - perhaps they would like to take a few boats and demonstrate the effectiveness, or otherwise, of a change to their prop? Would be very interesting but probably too big a risk for them? BUT if it DID show a benefit then they would be 'snowed under' for orders I am sure!

 

John

[Tony Brooks]

Hmmm - still no 'before and after' cases with just a prop change?

Has anyone got any influence with Axiom - perhaps they would like to take a few boats and demonstrate the effectiveness, or otherwise, of a change to their prop? Would be very interesting but probably too big a risk for them? BUT if it DID show a benefit then they would be 'snowed under' for orders I am sure!

 

John

 

 

They already have done that for a review in Waterways World and one of the bumpy stuff magazines but they seemingly have to provided any test tank type results. They also got, shall we say, a bad name for themselves when they tried to use this forum for convert publicity.

 

They have had a chance to discuss and explain how they get the claimed advantages face to face with myself and, I think, at least one other forum member. As far as I am concerned they avoided any thing other than assertions rather than facts. In my case they might have got another magazine mention out of it.

 

Their conduct to date has given the sceptics who like to see either a credible explanation or independent test results lots of room for doubt.

 

Empirically I think I noticed many of their claims when I changed my prop to one specified and supplied by Crowthers but that might be the £400 it cost me. Think how much more persuasive the £700 or whatever an Axion costs would be.

 

I think we will just have to wait until we start getting reports from a good number of the more active piratically biased members of the forum.

[jonk]

They already have done that for a review in Waterways World and one of the bumpy stuff magazines but they seemingly have to provided any test tank type results. They also got, shall we say, a bad name for themselves when they tried to use this forum for convert publicity.

 

They have had a chance to discuss and explain how they get the claimed advantages face to face with myself and, I think, at least one other forum member. As far as I am concerned they avoided any thing other than assertions rather than facts. In my case they might have got another magazine mention out of it.

 

Their conduct to date has given the sceptics who like to see either a credible explanation or independent test results lots of room for doubt.

 

Empirically I think I noticed many of their claims when I changed my prop to one specified and supplied by Crowthers but that might be the £400 it cost me. Think how much more persuasive the £700 or whatever an Axion costs would be.

 

I think we will just have to wait until we start getting reports from a good number of the more active piratically biased members of the forum.

 

Missed that - was it a narrowboat that they used for Waterways World?

Their actions do make me doubt their claims, but no-one has yet found any disadvantage using their props, except for price, as far as I know. I also wonder how long it takes for the square ends to become worn roundish. Suppose we still need to wait!

[Laurence Hogg]

Just lifted this off their website:

 

"positive observations are as follows:

 

Stopping time fantastic – almost instantaneous.

Reverse’s quickly and in a straight line which helped on numerous occasions to avoid a collision with other boats approaching to quickly under bridges which made our trip less hazardous.

Tick over 1000 R.P.M pushes the boat swiftly, without white water and holds in a straight line.

Quick to respond, both forward and reversing.

When on sharp bends, using short bursts on the throttle it acts like a bow thruster on the stern, making it easier to steer round bends.

t gave lots of control when approaching moorings.

Easy to steer off tunnel walls.

Prop still has good thrust at 1000 R.P.M even with weed around the shaft."

 

Items 5,6 &7 could attract comments !!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited April 20, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[nb Innisfree]

'Almost instantaneous' ? what the hell is that supposed to signify?

[Tony Brooks]

Missed that - was it a narrowboat that they used for Waterways World?

Their actions do make me doubt their claims, but no-one has yet found any disadvantage using their props, except for price, as far as I know. I also wonder how long it takes for the square ends to become worn roundish. Suppose we still need to wait!

 

Yes, it was a pair of hireboats. One had its prop changed for an axiom and the other kept the original. As I recall they went through Blisworth tunnel and the swapped crews for the journey back. I do not recall any attempt to ensure the non-axiom prop was either in good order or correct for the boat. I am sure Richard F could give you more info.

[wimpfish]

Hmmm - still no 'before and after' cases with just a prop change?

Has anyone got any influence with Axiom - perhaps they would like to take a few boats and demonstrate the effectiveness, or otherwise, of a change to their prop? Would be very interesting but probably too big a risk for them? BUT if it DID show a benefit then they would be 'snowed under' for orders I am sure!

 

John

 

I haven't got any influence with Axiom but I can answer your question regarding before and after with only the prop change to Axiom (57ft boat with Isuzu and originally 17 by 12 standard prop). If you search on previous posts you will find my comments from several months back when we first fitted the Axiom. So several months down the line how have we got on - well I continue to be impressed. It does most of what they say on the tin. Very fast stopping from full speed (less than half the boat length without revving the engine to death), much improved control when reversing - boat will steer as long as you are not in very shallow water (it wouldn't before), cruising speed with 100 rpm less (although I am still assessing this appears to have translated into less fuel consumption). What it doesn't do is create less wash or disturbe moored boats less, but I never believed it would do this before I bought one. It is so far undamaged (the tips are not broken off or worn as some suggest the may be prone to. The other thing I have noticed is that if you do pick up small scale debris on the prop it is easier to shed by simply flicking in reverse for a few seconds (noticeably better than the original prop). I have no logical explanation for this but it is better for whatever reason.

Is this a prop for everyone? Possibly not, it is after all relatively expensive and some will not regard the benifits as worth the expenditure. The main thing is that, however much many like to theorise that it can't work or that the before and after are not comparable my experience is real, on relatively shallow canals and directly comparable before and after.

 

Hope this helps