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Vintage Engine

andywatson

By andywatson
in Living Afloat

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billh Rising Star

billh

Posted
Posted
Kelvin F4 1928 about to go into Judith Ann. Regards, HughC.

 

With a production run lasting about 40 years virtually unchanged. How does this compare to Gardner or RN? Is the currently available RN the same as pre WW2 DM2? By "same" I mean are all the parts interchangeable?

Bending the competition rules a bit, we loaded 3 locos into Maria a few of years ago- the loco engines were Dorman,and 2x Ailsa Craig . Combined age about 155 years and weight 12tons. Towed the lot to Marple and back with a Kelvin F4 (now aged 60).

Last year we took a 5ton Bellis & Morcom steam engine ( indeterminate age) for a boat ride to Marple. The design of this engine goes back to 1890.

Bill

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Timleech Veteran II

Timleech

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With a production run lasting about 40 years virtually unchanged. How does this compare to Gardner or RN? Is the currently available RN the same as pre WW2 DM2? By "same" I mean are all the parts interchangeable?

 

Bill

 

The RN has used 'modern' thin walled bearings since ?1950s? which means different con rods and I think a different gudgeon pin diameter in the piston. I believe new type con rods can be used in an older engine but I don't know about converting the main bearings. The plug in the piston top has changed diameter which I suppose means that the head has changed slightly. The older pistons can be got from RN diesels. Pressure oiling for rocker shafts was added some time post-war I think.

Water pumps and governors have also changed, you're on your own with parts for the old governor.

 

Tim

Edited by Timleech
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Timleech Veteran II

Timleech

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My contribution - 1931 Gardner petrol auxiliary compressor engine, evidently not the oldest but probably the oldest original installation up to now. No longer required, current main engine is electric start.

Kelvin R6 from the 1960s/70s, 90 bhp so maybe the biggest in terms of power so far :lol:

 

Tim

Edited by Timleech
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koukouvagia Influencer

koukouvagiaDonate to Canal World

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I don't know whether the Seffle qualifies. I thought it was new in 1956 when it was put into Willow Wren's Avocet. However, I reckoned that it looked rather old technology for 1956 so I wrote to Seffle in Sweden and was told that the engine which was supplied in 1956 was, in fact, a factory restored machine. It was re-numbered and given a new engine plate. Seffle had no record of the original engine number but they thought it dated back to pre- First Wold War.

 

scan0014-1-1.jpg

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soldthehouse Influencer

soldthehouse

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kelvin 6hp poppet valve engine number 15815, 1928 but older than the F4 thats going into judith ann, poorest availability of spares, Kromhout 2K3 2 cylinder 2 stroke dieselgallery_5247_508_141754.jpg

Drool, how unkind i,m a recovering engineaholic and have managed to dispose of most of my engines but thats a tastylooking minx winking her two cylinders at me like that. ive seen the day that I wouldnt have settled till i,d managed to get closer to a lump like that if only for a brief time. have to go the nurse wants to give me my medication now....

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tom_c Collaborator

tom_c

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Posted (edited)

the kromhout is a bit big for a narrowboat, 40hp @ 500rpm it really needs a 34" x 24"prop, i did think of using the little kelvin as a starter motor for itgallery_5247_508_115532.jpg

eventually i might get round to finishing the kromhout but there are two fowler 2dy, another kelvin F4, a kelvin F2 and a couple of parsons petrol paraffin, but one of the parsons may be converted to a generator

Edited by tom_c
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wrigglefingers Experienced

wrigglefingersDonate to Canal World

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Drool, how unkind i,m a recovering engineaholic and have managed to dispose of most of my engines but thats a tastylooking minx winking her two cylinders at me like that. ive seen the day that I wouldnt have settled till i,d managed to get closer to a lump like that if only for a brief time. have to go the nurse wants to give me my medication now....

 

Stuart!

 

That's outrageous :lol:

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martyn 1 Community Regular

martyn 1

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:lol: PMSL :lol:

 

Not entirely sure of the original age of my JP3, but I know it had a full rebuild by the Royal Navy in 1953 before being put in to storage as 'spare'.

 

Do you know the engine number, it will ever be in a 27/3***** or CS***** or *****JP3**** format. If you let me know I will tell you the year of production.

 

The number is either on a brass plate on one of the crankcase doors or alternatively if that is missing it is stamped into the rim of the flywheel.

 

 

Not going to win the age or size but at the mo my oldest is a 1936 Lister JP2M and Largest is 4LW Gardner 1961.

 

Martyn

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The Anonymous Bard Community Regular

The Anonymous Bard

Posted
Posted (edited)
It's the taking part that matters.

 

Through this topic (as well as bit bit of entertainment) I'm hoping that anyone considering a vintage engine will be reassured that they are a viable choice bearing in mind spares availabilty, technical support, fuel consumption etc.

 

 

Duly considering... :lol:

 

Edit: That should be re-considering!

Edited by The Anonymous Bard
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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

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Through this topic (as well as bit bit of entertainment) I'm hoping that anyone considering a vintage engine will be reassured that they are a viable choice bearing in mind spares availabilty, technical support, fuel consumption etc.

Although factor in initial cost as well, and maybe (in general) it's not the cheapest way into canal boat ownership!

 

I'd suggest, (as an example), if you can afford a brand new RN at the prices I saw them advertised at at the Braunston show, whether it consumes one litre of red an hour, or a full two, is unlikely to be the biggest of your worries!

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The Anonymous Bard Community Regular

The Anonymous Bard

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Although factor in initial cost as well, and maybe (in general) it's not the cheapest way into canal boat ownership!

 

I'd suggest, (as an example), if you can afford a brand new RN at the prices I saw them advertised at at the Braunston show, whether it consumes one litre of red an hour, or a full two, is unlikely to be the biggest of your worries!

 

We did a few sums after talking to the guys at RN regarding a DM2 (quoted circa 22k) and found, if I remember rightly, that the DM2 would pay us back in the long run considering service intervals etc.

 

Is it true that you can run one on HP Sauce? :lol:

 

Edit: Post 8pm dyslexveria!

Edited by The Anonymous Bard
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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

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Posted (edited)
We did a few sums after talking to the guys at RN regarding a DM2 (quoted circa 22k) and found, if I remember rightly, that the DM2 would pay us back in the long run considering service intervals etc.

Good Grief! - How long are you planning to keep it!

 

I can't imagine spending anything approaching (say) £14K, (difference between that and a modern engine), on servicing if I was donated a narrow boat at birth, and still using it at ages even older than those achieved by Harry Patch or Henry Allingham.

 

Surely if the basic engine costs (say) £22K rather than £8K, even though you may need parts less often, when you do the mark up is likely to be of the same order ?

 

EDITED to say:

 

If you are prepared to publish the arithmetic you have gone through to reach that conclusion, I'm sure some would be able to comment upon how realistic it might be in practice, (only politely, of course!).

Edited by alan_fincher
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