Wooden Motor 'IAN'

[carlt]

So, assuming this boat was hogged (or any other) how would the condition be put right?

 

Is it just a case of gradually adding weight to the affected area.........or is there more to it.

 

How would one set about de-hogging (un-hogging, whatever) a boat?

Hogs can be alleviated in a number of ways.

 

Sometimes settling the boat on level stocks and recaulking will reduce the hog, redistributing the ballast (and bunging a Rayburn in) helps but the most permanent way is to put some nice long straight planks in.

 

One boat I know of has a pronounced reverse hog, because it was rebuilt on uneven stocks.

 

Another has had the gunwales planed down, to disguise the hog which is very nasty and the big crease in the aluminium cabin, where it settled back on stocks, gives it away.

Edited September 2, 2009 by carlt

[Hairy-Neil]

Yes, it was such an awful job I suffered it for a whole two weeks - sometime in '74 or '75, so it had just acquired the 'Spacevan' tag, but we all knew it as a Commer - most were yellow for you know who.

 

I was apprentice on the yellow ones. Post Office, and later BT, were by far the biggest customer for the PB/Spacevan buying 27,000 of them over the years and aparently running up to 15,000 on the fleet at any one time. When I joined in late 1975 they were still arriving badged as a Commer, but were rebranded 'Dodge' soon after. The plastic facelift arrived a couple of years later.

 

I saw a mint restored ex BT example last month on the PO Vehicle Club stand at Harrogate for the HCVS Trans Pennine Run, so somebody still cares for them.

[Derek R.]

I saw a mint restored ex BT example last month on the PO Vehicle Club stand at Harrogate for the HCVS Trans Pennine Run, so somebody still cares for them.

 

As they do Morris Marina's and Austin Allegro's. Nostalgia's a wicked thief.

[Chris-B]

Nostalgia ain't wot it used to be

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok coat

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[alan_fincher]

I saw a mint restored ex BT example last month on the PO Vehicle Club stand at Harrogate for the HCVS Trans Pennine Run, so somebody still cares for them.

 

 

As they do Morris Marina's and Austin Allegro's. Nostalgia's a wicked thief.

 

Can't say I could ever care for Marinas or Allegros, even when they were the latest model!

[carlt]

Can't say I could ever care for Marinas or Allegros, even when they were the latest model!

The Marina Dormobile is a clever bit of kit.

[Max Sinclair]

Standard practice was to dry out the boat on the level bostocks to straighten it,replace any failed timbers with new, then harden up the whole structure with hard caulking using rolled Oakum from the prisons,and tar. Hogging can be in two directions, bows down up to 1 foot, or as Ian bows up.A good boatyard corrects these disasters.

[BEngo]

Standard practice was to dry out the boat on the level bostocks to straighten it,replace any failed timbers with new, then harden up the whole structure with hard caulking using rolled Oakum from the prisons,and tar. Hogging can be in two directions, bows down up to 1 foot, or as Ian bows up.A good boatyard corrects these disasters.

 

 

I always thought bows/stern down was hog and bows/stern up was sag? In a wooden motor I think the weight of the engine and counter block usually causes hog and the weight of a load causes sag. These two balance out when a boat is worked.

 

When IAN lived in Aylesbury Bob always went on dock annually and each time IAN came back straight. Then over the year the hog would creep back in. The JP2 cannot have helped. Bob would often say that he really needed to get a load of coal in, but Madge wasn't having any of that.

 

N

[carlt]

I always thought bows/stern down was hog and bows/stern up was sag? In a wooden motor I think the weight of the engine and counter block usually causes hog and the weight of a load causes sag. These two balance out when a boat is worked.

The lack of buoyancy fore and aft, causes the hog which is why butties suffer, too.

 

It was particularly bad in tar boats which were often steamed, to soften their cargos.

[alan_fincher]

I always thought bows/stern down was hog and bows/stern up was sag?

 

The lack of buoyancy fore and aft, causes the hog which is why butties suffer, too.

So, if it isn't doing this, but is instead "pointy end too high with respect to middle", is that technically hogging, or not, please ?

 

I must admit I had always assumed hogging was the "ends too low" condition only, but what do I know ?

 

I must admit I have seldom seen the reverse, as I had always assumed, as Carl said, that it related to middle more buoyant than the extremes.

 

Naughty aside:

 

Presumably Raymond with Rose Bray on the 'Elum was at greater risks of hogging than many butties ?

 

Further aside

 

I often struggle - is the spelling "butties" or "buttys" in this case ??

[carlt]

So, if it isn't doing this, but is instead "pointy end too high with respect to middle", is that technically hogging, or not, please ?

 

I must admit I had always assumed hogging was the "ends too low" condition only, but what do I know ?

 

I must admit I have seldom seen the reverse, as I had always assumed, as Carl said, that it related to middle more buoyant than the extremes.

 

Naughty aside:

 

Presumably Raymond with Rose Bray on the 'Elum was at greater risks of hogging than many butties ?

 

Further aside

 

I often struggle - is the spelling "butties" or "buttys" in this case ??

I've only known "badly" rebuilt boats to have, what I've always called, because no'one's told me any different, a "reverse hog".

 

I'd have thought that you'd have to substantially overload a boat (possibly to the point of sinking it) to overcome the lower buoyancy of the pointy ends as you are, essentially exerting compressive forces, on the weaker part of the boat, when loading, and tensile forces, when it is empty.

 

 

 

I've never worried too much, about "butties" or "buttys", as long as the bacon is free range and the sauce Heinz.

[Chris Pink]

When IAN lived in Aylesbury Bob always went on dock annually and each time IAN came back straight. Then over the year the hog would creep back in. The JP2 cannot have helped. Bob would often say that he really needed to get a load of coal in, but Madge wasn't having any of that.

 

the trick is that when on the stocks and straightened the seams on the bottoms are opened out, so you can ram oakum in which then gets pinched tight when the boat is refloated thus straightening the boat a little.

 

Weight in the middle, a couple of ton of coal, is the way to reduce hogging, but only really before it starts.

 

I seem to remember a discussion on here where someone mentioned taking out a twist by judicious loading.

[AMModels]

Hogs can be alleviated in a number of ways.

 

Sometimes settling the boat on level stocks and recaulking will reduce the hog, redistributing the ballast (and bunging a Rayburn in) helps but the most permanent way is to put some nice long straight planks in.

 

One boat I know of has a pronounced reverse hog, because it was rebuilt on uneven stocks.

 

Another has had the gunwales planed down, to disguise the hog which is very nasty and the big crease in the aluminium cabin, where it settled back on stocks, gives it away.

I have seen a pic of a boat which made me wonder if this had happened, cant for the life of me remember which boat it was now.... seem to think it was DOVE or another of the severn motors.

[carlt]

I have seen a pic of a boat which made me wonder if this had happened, cant for the life of me remember which boat it was now.... seem to think it was DOVE or another of the severn motors.

I'll whisper it so nobody else hears "Gort".

 

You can also see a big crease, on her aluminium cabin, where the cabin, put on whilst hogged, straightens out on the stocks.

[AMModels]

thank you, I have a pic of her on the stocks in Gloucester by the looks of it but its a bit far to spot the ripple.

[Paul H]

I have seen a pic of a boat which made me wonder if this had happened, cant for the life of me remember which boat it was now.... seem to think it was DOVE or another of the severn motors.

The best/worst example of this is the ex-Clayton boat Pearl which has an extra plank running from the counter to the engine room bulkhead tapered to disguise the hogging.

 

Paul H

[hughc]

When we were young and impecunious we de-hogged Avon by resting her on two stands at the back and front and then replacing two planks on each side in keruing, the cheapest available hardwood at the time. We then welded a 4"" flat bar running around the whole boat to each knee and bolted heavy angle to each side of the kelson. The boat was then caulked as tightly as possible including the very dubious bottom. Now, I am sure the purists, many of whom I suspect have never owned an old wooden boat, will shudder at this treatment but it gave the boat over twenty years of extra life and she came off dock looking very nice indeed as the photograph on AMmodels site will show. It is a pity that it was eventually necessary to break her up. Regards, HughC.

Edited September 5, 2009 by hughc

[AMModels]

 

The two photos hugh is referring to, I dont think anyone can deny Avon looks very 'de-hogged'

[supervisor]

For me the cratch looks too foreshortened on the motor to be IAN, Ive had a play around with the pic and the cabin does actually seem to upsweep when you alter the contrast and exposure. No amount of refocusing or zooming shows the hook/dolly arrangement but on the scales of probability I would humbly suggest it is more likely to be renfrew based on other pictures I have in my possession of both boats.

To solve the argument on this topic I can confirm that the boat towing LUCY is RENFREW I am on RENFREW in the picture on the coal repairing my bike. If you look at the cabin side of RENFREW there are two port holes, on IAN there was only one. My dad Bill often used to steer the butty. He did not steer the motor a lot as he was normally doing the locks or other worthwhile things.

[AMModels]

Welcome supervisor, nice to have you on the forum.

[alan_fincher]

Welcome supervisor, nice to have you on the forum.

Yes, agreed!

 

Thank you for clearing up your dad's actual role in the operation of the boats.

 

We can't argue with someone who was actually there, and your knowledge might stop us speculating wrongly about things that were quite so long ago!

 

It would be great if you popped in occasionally as we blunder around and get other historic facts wrong as well.

 

I wish I personally remembered more of the boats at work - Whilst I can clearly remember seeing Renfrew & Lucy go south with some of the loads towards the end of the traffic, and seeing the family at work, much of the actual detail has erased itself from my mind over the last 40 years. What has stuck with me is just how slick the operation was, and how effortlessly they seemed to pass through - you realised they were working damned hard, drawing upon years of accumulated skill, but as a result they managed to make it look so easy.

[supervisor]

Yes, agreed!

 

Thank you for clearing up your dad's actual role in the operation of the boats.

 

We can't argue with someone who was actually there, and your knowledge might stop us speculating wrongly about things that were quite so long ago!

 

It would be great if you popped in occasionally as we blunder around and get other historic facts wrong as well.

 

I wish I personally remembered more of the boats at work - Whilst I can clearly remember seeing Renfrew & Lucy go south with some of the loads towards the end of the traffic, and seeing the family at work, much of the actual detail has erased itself from my mind over the last 40 years. What has stuck with me is just how slick the operation was, and how effortlessly they seemed to pass through - you realised they were working damned hard, drawing upon years of accumulated skill, but as a result they managed to make it look so easy.

my wife and I will be visiting on a regular basis now that we have found this forum. I get really annoyed at things that are miss reported or miss quoted about my familys life on the canals.

[alan_fincher]

my wife and I will be visiting on a regular basis now that we have found this forum. I get really annoyed at things that are miss reported or miss quoted about my familys life on the canals.

Well if you are interested in making sure we get our facts right, can you please confirm who is steering Renfrew in the picture I posted a lot earlier on.

 

I know the slide's colours have not lasted well in 40 years, and the image is poor, but I bet you can still give us the correct answer!

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

 

 

(Picture taken by Phil Quick - a friend of my wife's family, and who was holidaying with them at the time. I think my wife was about 14 then, but I'll not post the embarrassing photo taken of her after she fell in!).)

[supervisor]

Well if you are interested in making sure we get our facts right, can you please confirm who is steering Renfrew in the picture I posted a lot earlier on.

 

I know the slide's colours have not lasted well in 40 years, and the image is poor, but I bet you can still give us the correct answer!

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

 

 

(Picture taken by Phil Quick - a friend of my wife's family, and who was holidaying with them at the time. I think my wife was about 14 then, but I'll not post the embarrassing photo taken of her after she fell in!).)

I am on the butty LUCY and on the motor RENFREW it is Laura who is steering

[alan_fincher]

I am on the butty LUCY and on the motor RENFREW it is Laura who is steering

Well I got that one wrong then.

 

I could have sworn they are in glasses, and I've not seen pictures of Laura with them.

 

Thanks for putting me straight, even if it means I'm going to take some flak from one of the other posters.

 

(But then he said your dad never steered - so he can't have too much of a go at me, can he ? )

 

Our friend Phil who took the picture, (still a great supporter of the canals), will be really fascinated to here that someone he pictured has commented on it 40 years later, I'm sure of that!