Narrow on tidal Thames

[Nige123]

Ok I have sold my widebeam & have my eye on a narrow on the River Lea.

 

My problem is my mooring is on the K&N near Reading & to get the boat to it I have to go on the Thames from Limehouse basin on up steam on the tidal part of the Thames.

 

Now this must be done lots but I have never done it & would like to know of any problems I may come across?

 

Can you make good headway on the out going tide or do you need to tie up & wait for the in coming?

 

any help would be fantastic...

[bottle]

Nige.

 

I hate to do this but have a search, it has come up many times before.

 

Here is a start though, http://www.stpancrascc.co.uk/thames-cruising-guide.html,

 

This may help as well, http://www.visitthames.co.uk/

[sueb]

You don't need to go on the Thames until you get to Brentford and then it is easy.

Sue

[Albion]

You don't need to go on the Thames until you get to Brentford and then it is easy.

Sue

 

Sue could have a valid point for another reason because although the trip up from Limehouse is do-able, bearing in mind the tides, Limehouse opening hours and the many trip boats/water buses etc that cause large wash with little regard for any narrow boats, there is a requirement for VHF radio and, of course, the appropriate qualification to operate one if going out on your own. If you go out from Brentford then, I believe, there is an exemption from the VHF requirement.

Roger

[Nige123]

many thanks guys! so quick & lots of help.

 

OK I have some stuff to read up on it seems...

 

is the run from Brentford better due to less tide?

 

also it's says the Old river Lea is closed until after the 2012 running skipping thing is over??????

 

any more info can do nothing but help

[Tim Lewis]

many thanks guys! so quick & lots of help.

 

OK I have some stuff to read up on it seems...

 

is the run from Brentford better due to less tide?

 

also it's says the Old river Lea is closed until after the 2012 running skipping thing is over??????

 

any more info can do nothing but help

 

The Old River Lea is part of the Bow Back Rivers, the River Lea main line remains open.

 

Tim

[Nige123]

The Old River Lea is part of the Bow Back Rivers, the River Lea main line remains open.

 

Tim

 

 

OK that makes more sense....

 

many thanks

[Dekazer]

many thanks guys! so quick & lots of help.

 

OK I have some stuff to read up on it seems...

 

is the run from Brentford better due to less tide?

 

also it's says the Old river Lea is closed until after the 2012 running skipping thing is over??????

 

any more info can do nothing but help

 

If you take the Paddington Arm across London and come out at Brentford you'll only have to get as far as Teddington Lock, which isn't very far. Although you would technically need VHF for that stretch, in practice many don't bother (or so I'm lead to believe). We're planning on doing it in a few weeks so I'm interested in similar threads for that reason!

 

Any other hints and tips gratefully received!

[alan_fincher]

If you take the Paddington Arm across London and come out at Brentford you'll only have to get as far as Teddington Lock, which isn't very far. Although you would technically need VHF for that stretch, in practice many don't bother (or so I'm lead to believe). We're planning on doing it in a few weeks so I'm interested in similar threads for that reason!

 

Any other hints and tips gratefully received!

There is an exemption for boats only travelling between Teddington or Brentford, ar vice versa, (around 5 miles), so it's not that you are getting away with it - you actually don't need VHF.

 

In fact, as it appears neither lock monitors VHF, it doesn't sound particularly useful if you did.

 

Other than being at the right place at the right time tide-wise, that stretch is really no more challenging than the non-tidal bits, (or wasn't when we did it.....)

[Dekazer]

it's not that you are getting away with it - you actually don't need VHF.

 

Well that's taken all the fun out of it now!

 

[Nige123]

Well that's taken all the fun out of it now!

 

 

that's what I was thinking!

 

Would have been nice going past all the sights on the Thames but I know what it's like on the Thames when it's had some rain & the red boards are up & (stupidly) I have been out in a widebeam on it.....

The flow down stream can take you & it's hard to get out some times, just full power & go for it! & yes I know your insurance won't cover any damage if the reds are up but I woke to find things had got worse over night & only had a mile or 2 to go & wanted "some fun"

 

I did have some fun! as I came round a bend that had an island is the middle with a row of plastic boats tied up...

 

I did miss them in the end but only just at full power & my wife went below & hid awaiting the sound of braking glass!

you tend to do stupid things when you get a new boat & want to see what it can do right?

 

oh that's just me then is it?

[Tim Lewis]

that's what I was thinking!

 

Would have been nice going past all the sights on the Thames but I know what it's like on the Thames when it's had some rain & the red boards are up & (stupidly) I have been out in a widebeam on it.....

The flow down stream can take you & it's hard to get out some times, just full power & go for it! & yes I know your insurance won't cover any damage if the reds are up but I woke to find things had got worse over night & only had a mile or 2 to go & wanted "some fun"

 

I did have some fun! as I came round a bend that had an island is the middle with a row of plastic boats tied up...

 

I did miss them in the end but only just at full power & my wife went below & hid awaiting the sound of braking glass!

you tend to do stupid things when you get a new boat & want to see what it can do right?

 

oh that's just me then is it?

 

The tidal Thames does not have Red Boards. The amount of 'fresh' water entering the tideway makes no difference on this section, what you need to be aware of is the state of the tide and the wind!

 

Tim

[Nige123]

The tidal Thames does not have Red Boards. The amount of 'fresh' water entering the tideway makes no difference on this section, what you need to be aware of is the state of the tide and the wind!

 

Tim

 

Yes I don't think flat bottom boats are the best when it comes to waves let alone swell & the low pointy bit would not be the best in any waves with only a glass panel door to stop any large amount of water that may come over the front.

 

so it's a case of waiting for an incoming tide & give it some beans to get to the lock & safety before the tide turns & hope for some good weather.....

[mykaskin]

Yes I don't think flat bottom boats are the best when it comes to waves let alone swell & the low pointy bit would not be the best in any waves with only a glass panel door to stop any large amount of water that may come over the front.

 

so it's a case of waiting for an incoming tide & give it some beans to get to the lock & safety before the tide turns & hope for some good weather.....

 

Flat boats work very well on moving water - all modern ships are flat bottomed. Low freeboard, especially at the bow is the major worry, but unless really windy in the wrong direction should not cause too much concern.

 

In flood conditions the flow of the water on the tidal stretch can be always towards the sea (especially the upper reaches), and while Red boards don't apply may still cause problems (especially once the tide turns!).

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[rgreg]

If you take the Paddington Arm across London and come out at Brentford you'll only have to get as far as Teddington Lock, which isn't very far. Although you would technically need VHF for that stretch, in practice many don't bother (or so I'm lead to believe). We're planning on doing it in a few weeks so I'm interested in similar threads for that reason!

 

Any other hints and tips gratefully received!

 

Just done it today - no concerns at all. Paddington to Brentford yesterday moored overnight and Thames to Teddington today. Just get your departure time right from Brentford lock (02085682779).

[Nige123]

Just done it today - no concerns at all. Paddington to Brentford yesterday moored overnight and Thames to Teddington today. Just get your departure time right from Brentford lock (02085682779).

 

what's it like finding mooring places in London?

I spoze you need to be careful at night in some places can you tie up late & leave early without problems?

I've been along some of the Regents canal & some locks are full of gongoozlers if the suns out....

[Dekazer]

what's it like finding mooring places in London?

I spoze you need to be careful at night in some places can you tie up late & leave early without problems?

I've been along some of the Regents canal & some locks are full of gongoozlers if the suns out....

 

It's hard to find places in central London to be honest. If you're keen on security check out the Canal Museum at Kings Cross, who rent their one visitor mooring overnight for £8. Little Venice is good - we've not had trouble finding a spot there, and there are boater facilities. Once past there you will find various tow path places that may appeal. Kensal Green's a nice spot with a supermarket and a very wide towpath - always space there.

 

The Black Horse pub at Greenford has a water point and does nice food. High Line a bit further down has an Elsan Point. And make sure you get a curry in Southall!

[Phlea]

A most opportune topic as I plan to do this again in a month or two, downstream this time!

 

The one question I need answered though, which I couldn't find out the last time either, is what length your anchore chain/rope should be. I have visions of my anchor dangling down and not touching the bottom, when I need it to do its job the most!!!

[BennyBoy]

I drive a boat on the river thames and obviosuly frequently use the VHF.

I would say this, you don't need a VHF to drive on the thames at all just stick to the right hand side and make sure you give boats a good clear indication of where you are going.

 

HOWEVER i would say go and get a VHF license, its rellatively cheap 1 day course that is very very easy to pass. The reason i say is because being on the thames and cruising along is fine up untill you need to go down the incorrect side of a passenger boat or half a bridge is closed and you have to take it in turns to go through etc.

I also had a diesel tank incident at lambeth bridge last year and a call out on VHF brought me 5 boats within minutes.

 

Moral of the story is you can get away withit but wouldn't recommend it.

 

Regards

 

Ben

 

P.S. if you do come down and you didn't get a chance to get a radio P.M. me and i will see if i am in the area

Edited July 31, 2009 by BennyBoy

[blackrose]

I drive a boat on the river thames and obviosuly frequently use the VHF.

I would say this, you don't need a VHF to drive on the thames at all just stick to the right hand side and make sure you give boats a good clear indication of where you are going.

 

HOWEVER i would say go and get a VHF license, its rellatively cheap 1 day course that is very very easy to pass. The reason i say is because being on the thames and cruising along is fine up untill you need to go down the incorrect side of a passenger boat or half a bridge is closed and you have to take it in turns to go through etc.

I also had a diesel tank incident at lambeth bridge last year and a call out on VHF brought me 5 boats within minutes.

 

Moral of the story is you can get away withit but wouldn't recommend it.

 

Regards

 

Ben

I don't know which part of the Thames you work on, but PLA regs require any boat of over 45' travelling downstream of Brentford to have VHF unless they have made prior arrangements to travel with a lead boat with VHF.

As far as I know there are no exceptions to this and contrary to what you say there is no choice in the matter

Edited August 2, 2009 by blackrose

[Nige123]

I drive a boat on the river thames and obviosuly frequently use the VHF.

I would say this, you don't need a VHF to drive on the thames at all just stick to the right hand side and make sure you give boats a good clear indication of where you are going.

 

HOWEVER i would say go and get a VHF license, its rellatively cheap 1 day course that is very very easy to pass. The reason i say is because being on the thames and cruising along is fine up untill you need to go down the incorrect side of a passenger boat or half a bridge is closed and you have to take it in turns to go through etc.

I also had a diesel tank incident at lambeth bridge last year and a call out on VHF brought me 5 boats within minutes.

 

Moral of the story is you can get away withit but wouldn't recommend it.

 

Regards

 

Ben

 

P.S. if you do come down and you didn't get a chance to get a radio P.M. me and i will see if i am in the area

 

 

 

 

OK so what are the hand held VHF radio's that you can get from e-bay for £28.00 like? would this be OK to use as the range should not be an issue & my brother has a Licence to use VHF as a dive instructor/boat handler.....

 

& does anyone know the the penalty for not having VHF? or am I just making to much out of this?

[saltysplash]

OK so what are the hand held VHF radio's that you can get from e-bay for £28.00 like?

 

 

What would you expect them to be like for that price?

 

If forking out between 80-100 pound for a decent waterproof handheld is too much for you and the trip is only going to be a one off, then why not just wait at limehouse and tag onto a boat making the trip that does have VHF.

 

If you want it for other trips then personally id be looking to get a base set and proper ariel. Decent sets can be bought for less than £120

[carlt]

What would you expect them to be like for that price?

Actually I've got a Midland Nautico NT1 handheld that lives in my emergency grab bag.

 

It's not a bad little radio, with very basic functions but good performance (5 watts gave a range of around of well over 5 miles, when tested on the Essex moonscape).

 

I wouldn't bother with it as my main radio, or even my main handheld but, for occasional use or even as a one off disposable, it's not too bad.

 

You need to get a Brit charger too, btw, though mine came with a car charger, too. Don't plug the yank one into 240!

 

I notice, after a quick Google, a later NT3 model is available for about the same price, on Ebay. I might get one of them, to have a play with.

[saltysplash]

Actually I've got a Midland Nautico NT1 handheld that lives in my emergency grab bag.

 

It's not a bad little radio, with very basic functions but good performance (5 watts gave a range of around of well over 5 miles, when tested on the Essex moonscape).

 

I wouldn't bother with it as my main radio, or even my main handheld but, for occasional use or even as a one off disposable, it's not too bad.

 

You need to get a Brit charger too, btw, though mine came with a car charger, too. Don't plug the yank one into 240!

 

I notice, after a quick Google, a later NT3 model is available for about the same price, on Ebay. I might get one of them, to have a play with.

 

 

I agree fully as a back up radio kept in the grab bag but for a short trip along the thames which may be just a one off then the op may be better off tagging onto a convoy.

 

My Cheap Cobra hand held came in handy once when we entered Ostend, Id fitted and tested a brand new DSC base set which worked fine right upto the moment I tried to transmit to Ostend Harbour control for permission to enter. As soon as I pressed to talk, the set switched off, so did the GPS along with the depth sounder.

 

In fitting it I had inadvertently discontected the charging lead to the Wheel house battery which had slowly drained to nothing during those few weeks and that final attempt at transmitting was just too much.

 

Grab Bags with things in em are wonderful things

[BennyBoy]

OK so what are the hand held VHF radio's that you can get from e-bay for £28.00 like? would this be OK to use as the range should not be an issue & my brother has a Licence to use VHF as a dive instructor/boat handler.....

 

& does anyone know the the penalty for not having VHF? or am I just making to much out of this?

 

I believe with the amount of base stations on the thames you should be able to talk to London VTS anywere, its just talking to other boats further away you would have problems with.

I havn't tested this though as i have always had company purchased expensive radio's.

 

 

I don't know which part of the Thames you work on, but PLA regs require any boat of over 45' travelling downstream of Brentford to have VHF unless they have made prior arrangements to travel with a lead boat with VHF.

As far as I know there are no exceptions to this and contrary to what you say there is no choice in the matter

 

You are correct which is why i stated

 

Moral of the story is you can get away withit but wouldn't recommend it.

 

I don't know what the enforcement is like over a 45 foot boat but my boat has never been checked although it is less.

 

To your other question I work usually between Woolwich and Kew my boat is shorter than 45" but it is customary to use a VHF when going through the Thames Barrier infact i wouldn't reccomend going through without it.

 

 

Edit: To avoid confusion as it seems my other post wasn't clear enough - Go get a license and VHF mate

Edited August 3, 2009 by BennyBoy