Diesel vs Solid Fuel Stoves

[WotEver]

I think a SF fire, wood or coal appeals to the inner Caveman in me too or is that the inner pyromaniac?

 

Pyromania - it gives you such a warm feeling

[withoutapaddle]

The diesel stove was set on its minimum setting the solid fuel stove is run also at minimum unless it gets real cold.

As for turning it off, not between October and March even if we went away for a couple of days it would stay on so that we had a warm boat to come back to.

That is the one thing that I miss as I can only get the SF stove to stay in for about 36hours Just

 

It's a good point about checking for minium setting on a given diesel stove. The Refleks stove has a very low minimum setting of 0.12 litres per hour which is half of the value we were doing our calculation based on. Of course, whether that is a high enough setting will depend on y'r boat (and number of wooly sweaters in y'r wardrobe )

 

The other thing that attracted me to the Refleks is that it was quite beautiful, particularly in copper. That and the fact I have a multifuel stove and diesel central heating here at home and find I wheeze rather more when the stove has been on for a few nights in a row. It wasn't as bad as with open fires but definately a little smokey.

 

I think if y had some kind of respiratory sensitivity it might be something to consdider, depending on the individual sensitivity of course.

 

Oh, one other thing, the Refleks stoves are designed for the short stacks used on boats.

[mrsmelly]

Considering whether to fit a stove to Grace to supplement the Eberspacher. The question is diesel or solid fuel?

 

Let's have a heated debate..........

 

This has to be a wind up posting and I luv it........There is absolutely no contest here Solid fuel is VASTLY superior if u are a 24/7 365 boater. if u use the boat as a play thing say only use it 6 months a year that may be different ( Though I doubt it ) Dry heat only needs touching once a day, twice if its very cold looks better and u can do a nice stew, curry etc on the top, friends of mine have just suffered 6 years with a diesel bubble and tried to convince themselves they r best but just had a squirrell fitted.....every serious boater does in the end..........

 

If you are a liveaboard, there is absolutely no contest whatsoever!! -Solid Fuel.

 

Having used both an Eberspacher Hydronic 10 for several months, then having it replaced with a Hydronic 5, we found that both used a similar amount of diesel. Running as a main central heating source, for 18 hours per day, we averaged over the October to March periods, 200 litres per month. That was to heat a 57x10' widebeam. On top of that, you will also have to factor in the considerable cost of a regular service. If you are using red diesel to save cost, service intervals at 18 hours per day running, will need to be every 6-8 weeks maximum. If you are prepared to run on white, then that may be extendable by another 2-3 weeks. There is also the problem of how to keep warm if your boiler breaks down in the middle of a harsh Winter, as ours did on Christmas Eve a few years back. As all the service places were shut down we had no proper heating until the middle of January

 

Now that we have a solid fuel stove, we have no reliabilty problems and last Winter it ran 24 hours per day continuously from October to April. We averaged 9 bags of Taybrite or Stove heat per month, which we bought at Summer prices for about £6 per 25kg bag. There is also the added advantage of being able to burn logs and other wood, without having to rely on the availability and affordability of diesel. Solid fuel will be more expensive this year and I am negotiating new prices at the moment. But with oil based fuels creeping up again, solid fuel will still be a lot cheaper.

 

My advice would be to go for solid fuel and only use diesel as a backup heat source.

 

Roger

 

Absolutely 150% correct...............

[nb Innisfree]

The maths just dont add up

My figure of 1100 was towards the top end of diesel pricing.

Lets look at it another way:

Diesel stove uses 0.25L hour on low that's 6L a day or 42L a week at 55ppl that's £23

SF stove 1.5 bags a a week at £9 a bag that's £13.50

Those are at today's prices and assuming stove on 24/7

Diesel would have to be about 30ppl before it was cheaper to run a diesel stove.

 

I looked at this long and hard when I installed the diesel stove in 2002, replacing a SF stove and again in 2008 when I went back.

Even in 2002 when diesel was 22ppl it was still cheaper to have SF as phunicite was only 5.50 a bag but I felt that the odd pound or so was worth it for the cleanliness. at £10 its not.

 

Dont get me wrong I like the diesel stove but on cost grounds it had to go. I still have one in the back of the boat but that only needs to go on when the outside temp is below -2C

 

In cold weather we use 2 bags of Excel @£10 per 25kg pw, it never goes out (60' narrowboat) listening to people their diesel consumption (drip feed stove) varies between 30 and 40 lts per week which @ 70ppl at an average of 35 lpw (0.2l per hour) comes to £24.50. If using your figure of 55ppl and 42 lpw it is as you say £23 pw. not far off equal. Using your figure of 1.5 bags pw (assuming 25kg bags) each bag lasts 4.6 days, no way can we match that, too cold for us.

 

Having said that I still would use SF even it was dearer than diesel.

[withoutapaddle]

Dry heat

only needs touching once a day, twice if its very cold

looks better

and u can do a nice stew, curry etc on the top,

…

just had a squirrell fitted.....every serious boater does in the end..........

 

From what I can tell, and I may not be holding all the facts here with regard to these Refleks things at least:

 

Same dry heat as they are flued similarly.

Only needs touching when you switch it on or turn it up.

(aren’t you missing the cleaning thing for the SF stove?)

I realise it’s a matter of subjectivity but to my eye these things are rather more attractive than a black cast iron box:

http://www.lockgate-stoves.co.uk/images/pr...000KVTBrass.jpg

Hot plate for cooking, so stew on demand; squirrel stew if y’ like.

 

So unless you have a cunning coal source diesel stoves run similarly priced per Joule and they don’t leave the room smoky.

 

Thing is I still want a SF stove. Though I’m not sure why, I think it’s in case of a mad-max-esq distopic future where at least I’ll be able to burn trees when the worlds oil supplies run out!

[colin stone]

SF to have an alternative fuel supply, burn anthracite and any old rubbish - pallets, drift wood and we recycle cardboard and make loo roll logs. Have plumbed in a diesel line if I ever change my mind!! Stove with large glass area cannot be beaten in depths of winter and well worth the hassle of tipping the ash out.

 

Charnwood Cove

[Roger Gunkel]

Untrue !

 

You are talking about boilers, the thread was about stoves.

No electrical parts drip fed and simplicity in itself.

 

Sorry Idleness, not attempting to be argumentative in any way, but the OP did say that he was thinking of supplementing an Eberspacher with a Solid fuel stove. The point I was making, was that if he already has an Eberspacher, it would be far cheaper and less problematic to use the Eber as a backup to a SF stove.

 

The Refleks and other drip feed stoves may well be excellent, but it would be pointless putting one in if he already has a diesel boiler and a SF stove would be a fraction of the cost to install.

 

Roger

[GUMPY]

In cold weather we use 2 bags of Excel @£10 per 25kg pw, it never goes out (60' narrowboat) listening to people their diesel consumption (drip feed stove) varies between 30 and 40 lts per week which @ 70ppl at an average of 35 lpw (0.2l per hour) comes to £24.50. If using your figure of 55ppl and 42 lpw it is as you say £23 pw. not far off equal. Using your figure of 1.5 bags pw (assuming 25kg bags) each bag lasts 4.6 days, no way can we match that, too cold for us.

 

Yes they are 25kg bags and the other thing that needs to be considered is the size of the boat Parglena ( our home ) is 60ftX11ft6 the living room is 14ft X 11ft. I have a diesel drip feed stove for the back of the barge but that only goes on when the temp outside is below freezing. We now have a Charnwood County4 which is quite efficient keeps me warm enough to sit without jumpers on usually in just a T shirt and jeans.

[Bagpuss]

In the depths of the last 2 winters we've not bought more than 6 bags of Taybrite per month due to a reliable, free, wood supply. We've already got most of next winter's stacked, the rest is Ash the tree kind... Still standing but that won't hurt because it's Ash.

 

Put that in your sums and smoke it.

 

OTOH the ash can be a pain, but I'd argue that as simple as possible is less likely to break when you least want it to so i'll put up with the ash.

 

I am interested in this Refleks business but one of our motivations is dinosaur preservation so keeping the wood supply together is important.

 

oops... Luv Smelly (I like kittens too)

Edited July 6, 2009 by Bagpuss

[GUMPY]

Sorry Idleness, not attempting to be argumentative in any way, but the OP did say that he was thinking of supplementing an Eberspacher with a Solid fuel stove. The point I was making, was that if he already has an Eberspacher, it would be far cheaper and less problematic to use the Eber as a backup to a SF stove.

 

The Refleks and other drip feed stoves may well be excellent, but it would be pointless putting one in if he already has a diesel boiler and a SF stove would be a fraction of the cost to install.

 

I understood that he was looking for a stove either diesel or SF to add to the Eberspacher

[Matthew Knowles]

oops... Luv Smelly (I like kittens too)

 

Do kittens burn well too? How many kittens per week would you need to keep the fire in? How does the kitten per Joule compare to diesel or SF?

[nb Innisfree]

Do kittens burn well too? How many kittens per week would you need to keep the fire in? How does the kitten per Joule compare to diesel or SF?

 

Don't use kittens they can cause cat-tar

[Chagall]

Don't use kittens they can cause cat-tar

 

 

and they fur up the pipes

[WotEver]

and they fur up the pipes

 

I think you'll find a claws in the contract that prohibits their use anyway

[woodenit]

Do kittens burn well too? How many kittens per week would you need to keep the fire in? How does the kitten per Joule compare to diesel or SF?

 

as long as you dry them out well, theyre fine, the fumes given off san leave you feline nausious, a bit like badger

[Roger Gunkel]

All very ameowsing!

 

Roger

[FadeToScarlet]

I think you'll find a claws in the contract that prohibits their use anyway

 

We could just paws for thought here, and consider that the catorific value of one small kitten doesn't even approach a KittenJoule.

[withoutapaddle]

It wouldn’t work with kittens anyway as you’d never get them to sit still on the shovel for long enough to “feed” the stove, as soon as you’d let the cat out of the bag they’d be up the curtains and behind the sofa. Just not practical; not as bad as chinchillas of course.

[Matthew Knowles]

It wouldn’t work with kittens anyway as you’d never get them to sit still on the shovel for long enough to “feed” the stove, as soon as you’d let the cat out of the bag they’d be up the curtains and behind the sofa. Just not practical; not as bad as chinchillas of course.

 

Shouldn't be too hard...smack the bag with the shovel before you open it.

[tomandsophie]

I'd go for both diesel and SF if I had the money. We have a squirrel solid fuel stove in the living room with a backboiler to heat the water and radiators in the other rooms. It is wonderful and last winter I spend a grand total of £0 on fuel because I enjoy using the chainsaw, bowsaw, and axe to collect and cut logs. Very satisfying but very time-consuming. It would be nice to have a diesel stove in the bedroom so that we could heat it up in the morning so that we're not so cold when we get out of bed. We usually let the stove go out overnight and then I get up at around 5:30am to light the fire so it's warm when we get up at 7. Works for us but only because I enjoy doing it.

Even in the winter just passed (which got down below -5 quite frequently) we spent nothing at all on fuel. You certainly couldn't beat that outlay with a diesel stove!

But of course not everybody enjoys looking after a solid fuel fire so then I guess diesel would be good. But flippin' expensive.

[WotEver]

We have a squirrel solid fuel stove in the living room....

 

Do squirrels have a higher calorific value than kittens then?

[Chagall]

Do squirrels have a higher calorific value than kittens then?

 

no but if roasted they are high on fat so calories are off the scale...not diet food!

 

I'd go for both diesel and SF if I had the money. We have a squirrel solid fuel stove in the living room with a backboiler to heat the water and radiators in the other rooms. It is wonderful and last winter I spend a grand total of £0 on fuel because I enjoy using the chainsaw, bowsaw, and axe to collect and cut logs. Very satisfying but very time-consuming. It would be nice to have a diesel stove in the bedroom so that we could heat it up in the morning so that we're not so cold when we get out of bed. We usually let the stove go out overnight and then I get up at around 5:30am to light the fire so it's warm when we get up at 7. Works for us but only because I enjoy doing it.

Even in the winter just passed (which got down below -5 quite frequently) we spent nothing at all on fuel. You certainly couldn't beat that outlay with a diesel stove!

But of course not everybody enjoys looking after a solid fuel fire so then I guess diesel would be good. But flippin' expensive.

 

 

Im not suggesting you are chopping down local canal trees but just out of interest what are the regulations about 'pruning' hedgerows for stove fuel or picking up dead branches etc? is it along the lines of 'it fell off' so its free fuel?

[mayalld]

no but if roasted they are high on fat so calories are off the scale...not diet food!

 

 

 

 

Im not suggesting you are chopping down local canal trees but just out of interest what are the regulations about 'pruning' hedgerows for stove fuel or picking up dead branches etc? is it along the lines of 'it fell off' so its free fuel?

 

It is a wonderfully unregulated area in a highly regulated country.

 

Local canal trees grow at quite a rate, and there is a continual need to cut them back, which BW do all too infrequently.

 

Having cut them back, they are faced with the problem of disposal, so BW take a low cost option, and cut up into logs on site and leave them there.

 

It doesn't cost BW to remove them, and the people who pick them up get free fuel. Everybody is happy.

[Chagall]

It is a wonderfully unregulated area in a highly regulated country.

 

Local canal trees grow at quite a rate, and there is a continual need to cut them back, which BW do all too infrequently.

 

Having cut them back, they are faced with the problem of disposal, so BW take a low cost option, and cut up into logs on site and leave them there.

 

It doesn't cost BW to remove them, and the people who pick them up get free fuel. Everybody is happy.

 

Cool!!...but if we 'help' BW by judicious pruning before they get a round tuit we might get into bother?

[mayalld]

Cool!!...but if we 'help' BW by judicious pruning before they get a round tuit we might get into bother?

 

I suspect that helping BW to prune, and helping yourself to the logs would be a no-no.

 

However, if you were to help BW by removing an overgrowing tree, and then slice it up into logs and leave them in a nice pile for other boaters......