starting problem

[Keeping Up]

If by-passing the switch with a screwdriver blade has no effect, then the switch is not the problem and there is no point wasting time removing and replacing the wires

[RLWP]

This click of which you speak. Where is it coming from? Is it from the starter motor?

 

Richard

[Bones]

the click came from the solenoid. I had a good rummage and then had a snooze. PJ popped in after work to drop off some hole saws so I took him up to the engine and he had a poke. We have no idea what the problem was. The flywheel turned freely.

 

So, PJ held a nice big bit of metal accross starter and solenoid and after a while it started. I ran the engine, stopped it, tried to start it immediately and there was a click, then nothing. Then I had several more goes and on all of those it started.

 

Still no idea what the problem was, maybe some gunk somewhere... but I will need to keep an eye on it and see whether it keeps doing the click thing without the vroom thing.

 

cheers folks

[RLWP]

the click came from the solenoid. I had a good rummage and then had a snooze. PJ popped in after work to drop off some hole saws so I took him up to the engine and he had a poke. We have no idea what the problem was. The flywheel turned freely.

 

So, PJ held a nice big bit of metal accross starter and solenoid and after a while it started. I ran the engine, stopped it, tried to start it immediately and there was a click, then nothing. Then I had several more goes and on all of those it started.

 

Still no idea what the problem was, maybe some gunk somewhere... but I will need to keep an eye on it and see whether it keeps doing the click thing without the vroom thing.

 

cheers folks

 

I predict that the solenoid on your starter is beginning to fail. Tawny Owl is starting to do this again, although it will often start on the second or third click.

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

I predict that the solenoid on your starter is beginning to fail. Tawny Owl is starting to do this again, although it will often start on the second or third click.

 

Richard

Another vote for the same, or more accurately the heavy duty switch that gets engaged as the solenoid goes in.

 

We had this, with exactly the symptoms described, soon after buying Chalice, and the contacts of the switch proved to be a nasty blue green copper verdigris type of mess.

 

An decent auto-electrical place was able to replace just the offending part of the solenoid, (not the whole solenoid, and certainly not the whole starter).

 

Cost, IIRC, was not a lot over £20, and this included giving the motor a once over, checking the brushes, and lubricating some of the moving parts - no everywhere rips you off!

[Sir Nibble]

This will happen again. If the "click" is a substantial "clunk" then I also vote for a solenoid contact problem. If it's a faint "tick" then Either worn brushes or volt drop. If it does recurr then make a connection from the big battery supply terminal on the starter to the little solenoid connection. If that fires it up think volt drop to the solenoid terminal.

[Chris Pink]

This will happen again. If the "click" is a substantial "clunk" then I also vote for a solenoid contact problem. If it's a faint "tick" then Either worn brushes or volt drop. If it does recurr then make a connection from the big battery supply terminal on the starter to the little solenoid connection. If that fires it up think volt drop to the solenoid terminal.

 

 

i quite liked the idea of "up thinking", then i re-read your post.

[Sir Nibble]

Bloody comma went AWOL!

[David Schweizer]

the click came from the solenoid. I had a good rummage and then had a snooze. PJ popped in after work to drop off some hole saws so I took him up to the engine and he had a poke. We have no idea what the problem was. The flywheel turned freely.

 

So, PJ held a nice big bit of metal accross starter and solenoid and after a while it started. I ran the engine, stopped it, tried to start it immediately and there was a click, then nothing. Then I had several more goes and on all of those it started.

 

Still no idea what the problem was, maybe some gunk somewhere... but I will need to keep an eye on it and see whether it keeps doing the click thing without the vroom thing.

 

cheers folks

I had more or less the same problem with the starter on my BMC 1.5, just a click and no vroom (as you call it), and then suddenly after a bit of fiddling about deciding to start. Eventually it would not start despite plenty of fiddling.

 

Diagnosis :- faulty solenoid on the starter. (but annoying as it was a brand new re-built one) Remedy :- new Starter Motor (under warranty)

 

In your case you will thave to remove the stater and either have it re-built, or get an exchange unit. Just hope that the person who installed your engine did not fit the bottom bolt, they are a bugger to remove where you cannot gain access from below.

Edited October 20, 2009 by David Schweizer

[Bones]

I had more or less the same problem with the starter on my BMC 1.5, just a click and no vroom (as you call it), and then suddenly after a bit of fiddling about deciding to start. Eventually it would not start despite plenty of fiddling.

 

Diagnosis :- faulty solenoid on the starter. (but annoying as it was a brand new re-built one) Remedy :- new Starter Motor (under warranty)

 

In your case you will thave to remove the stater and either have it re-built, or get an exchange unit. Just hope that the person who installed your engine did not fit the bottom bolt, they are a bugger to remove where you cannot gain access from below.

 

The starter motor is right under the engine. The only way 2 get it out is 2 jack the engine up. Very dull indeed.

 

I will see how it goes. The clunk it made was quite hefty. So its sounding like the solenoid. Sigh.

[Sir Nibble]

Relax O skeletal one, if it's the solenoid it can be removed from the starter in situ and fettled.

[Bones]

Relax O skeletal one, if it's the solenoid it can be removed from the starter in situ and fettled.

Phew!!

[Keeping Up]

Bloody comma went AWOL!

I think it has gone away somewhere, probably pretending to be an apostrophe amongst the plural's.

[Tony Brooks]

Relax O skeletal one, if it's the solenoid it can be removed from the starter in situ and fettled.

 

 

Agreed, but does not the BMC starter require the pinion throw to be adjusted on the pivot bolt?

 

Once Bones has read the bit about applying 6v to the solenoid she might think she has a problem. (I have had the end bracket "nose" knocked off when someone did not adjust the throw).

 

Happy to accept modern versions may be different.

[Sir Nibble]

Agreed, but does not the BMC starter require the pinion throw to be adjusted on the pivot bolt?

 

Once Bones has read the bit about applying 6v to the solenoid she might think she has a problem. (I have had the end bracket "nose" knocked off when someone did not adjust the throw).

 

Happy to accept modern versions may be different.

Yes thats right, the eccentric pivot. However, the body of the solenoid is easily removed leaving the plunger in place so the adjustment need not be disturbed. I never used the 6V method, I always apply 12V with the solenoid to motor lead disconnected and flash the -ve to the solenoid motor contact to engage, or just pull the pinion into position manually. Has anyone yet come up with a way of dealing with that adjuster nut? even lucas service round my way tightened it with a punch!

[Bones]

well, the latest update on the great Bones engine patomime is that the solenoid needs to be removed. The way my engine is it is impossible to get to the lower of the two nuts on the back of the solenoid, and thus the starter motor has to come out.

 

The starter motor is situated UNDER the engine, yes, under the engine... the engine has to be lifted to remove it because the sump is in the way of it coming out easily.

 

When I inherited the boat one of the 3 bolts on the starter was worse for wear - more wear but a lot more worse and thus didn't bolt. One of them is under the engine and VERY hard to get a socket on to and the third just waves enthusiastically at me. This will be a good time to resolve the bolt issue.

 

This is not a good time to be scrabbling around in the engine room.

[Yoda]

Bones, make a list of the changes you need to do and a service while the engine is out.

[Bones]

looks like it is time to call the engineer - the bolt head under the starter motor is rounded off and I just don't know how to get it off. I can't get the spanner on it - only a socket.

 

Not only that, but the bolt threads aren't in good condition for the other two (there are three in total).

 

Does any one have any other ideas or is it time to call the professionals (although finding an engineer at this time of year isn't easy!).

[Guest User]

looks like it is time to call the engineer - the bolt head under the starter motor is rounded off and I just don't know how to get it off. I can't get the spanner on it - only a socket.

 

Not only that, but the bolt threads aren't in good condition for the other two (there are three in total).

 

Does any one have any other ideas or is it time to call the professionals (although finding an engineer at this time of year isn't easy!).

 

 

You might need these ... Irwin nut remover Clicky.... IMHO they're wonderful !!!!

 

(edited to add: don't forget to marinate in penetrating oil)

Edited January 1, 2010 by Graham!

[soldthehouse]

looks like it is time to call the engineer - the bolt head under the starter motor is rounded off and I just don't know how to get it off. I can't get the spanner on it - only a socket.

 

Not only that, but the bolt threads aren't in good condition for the other two (there are three in total).

 

Does any one have any other ideas or is it time to call the professionals (although finding an engineer at this time of year isn't easy!).

all the theoretical advice in the world is useless without seeing it, I would get someone with some engineering nouse would be my advice, good luck

[wrigglefingers]

You might need these ... Irwin nut remover Clicky.... IMHO they're wonderful !!!!

 

(edited to add: don't forget to marinate in penetrating oil)

 

Hello Sweetie,

 

We, the Bridgnorth Two, could stop at Kidderminster SF to see if we can obtain one these seemingly marvellous items, and then arrive to offer sympathy and not much practical help if that would acceptable over the weekend. Plus, we could stare at the solenoid in a threatening manner.

Any use?

 

Jill and the Ginger Pig xxx

[Guest User]

Hello Sweetie,

 

We, the Bridgnorth Two, could stop at Kidderminster SF to see if we can obtain one these seemingly marvellous items, and then arrive to offer sympathy and not much practical help if that would acceptable over the weekend. Plus, we could stare at the solenoid in a threatening manner.

Any use?

 

Jill and the Ginger Pig xxx

 

If, as Bones mentions, a spanner can't be brought to bear, then the other likely necessaries to go with the nut removers are a 3/8" drive socket set (with various extension bars), a hammer and an INdelicate touch.

[Grace and Favour]

If, as Bones mentions, a spanner can't be brought to bear, then the other likely necessaries to go with the nut removers are a 3/8" drive socket set (with various extension bars), a hammer and an INdelicate touch.

 

. . and don't forget some replacement nuts / bolts / (washers too if used)

[Bones]

You might need these ... Irwin nut remover Clicky.... IMHO they're wonderful !!!!

 

(edited to add: don't forget to marinate in penetrating oil)

 

That looks like JUST the biscuit! At least if I could get it off I can send the motor off and have a think about the rest of it!

 

Hello Sweetie,

 

We, the Bridgnorth Two, could stop at Kidderminster SF to see if we can obtain one these seemingly marvellous items, and then arrive to offer sympathy and not much practical help if that would acceptable over the weekend. Plus, we could stare at the solenoid in a threatening manner.

Any use?

 

Jill and the Ginger Pig xxx

 

OOh.. that might be wonderful! I need to think... thank you!

 

If, as Bones mentions, a spanner can't be brought to bear, then the other likely necessaries to go with the nut removers are a 3/8" drive socket set (with various extension bars), a hammer and an INdelicate touch.

 

Good job I can't weild a hammer under there... !

 

ah - just noticed it isn't a socket... for a socket set. the problem is that I don't want to have to lift the engine off the bearers.. I will have another look in the morning and see if I can lift it enough to get clearence for a spanner.. and see. There is a SF in Oxford so I will pop along tomorrow - looking closer on Amazon it looks like it can be used with a socket set.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Bones

[ditchcrawler]

You might need these ... Irwin nut remover Clicky.... IMHO they're wonderful !!!!

 

(edited to add: don't forget to marinate in penetrating oil)

Looks a very useful bit of kit