Passing an oncoming boat...

[mykaskin]

Hi Folks,

 

I had the oppotunity to pass another working boat coming the other way yesterday. Normally people panic when they see Victoria coming down the canal, and move over 1/4 mile before reaching the boat!

 

My meeting with Archimedes and Ara (I think they were, my memory is getting worse by the day) was interesting. We met on the long straight between the central line railway bridge at Northolt and Greenford (near Lyons dock). I slowed a little as I didn't want my wash to ground them as I passed.

 

I continued my run down the center of the canal as I was expecting Archimedes to do, but they pulled over to the side more than I would expect them to do. Perhaps they knew the depth was OK for them to do so (that side is piled, the other rough), but anyway I altered course slightly to run along their side.

 

There was no problem for me, and the pair seemed to have no problems, but I just wanted to check the proper procedure for passing in the right way since these days its rare you can practice it - everyone is a wimp! :-)

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[nbtafelberg]

That would have been Tom and Andy

 

Best thing to do is make sure Tom gets a cream egg.

 

On a serious note. I always slow down and make sure that we both have space and depth to pass. It can be a bit hairy around uxbridge boat centre for instance with boats moored all over the place and nowhere to go. When a tanker or that great big trip boat comes up you can find yourself reversing to find space.

[Naughty Cal]

Use some common sense.

 

If there is room and depth to pass, slow down and do so. If not pull in somewhere safe and let them through.

[mykaskin]

Use some common sense.

 

If there is room and depth to pass, slow down and do so. If not pull in somewhere safe and let them through.

 

I'm not talking about stopping to let them through a bridge hole or any other tight spot. Just on the open water, with no other extra issues. Obviously I would give a towing pair right at a bridge even if I was closer - unless I knew I could nip through before they got there! :-)

 

Best thing to do is make sure Tom gets a cream egg.

 

Better get stocked up then! :-)

 

Mike

[nbtafelberg]

Oh yes.

[Naughty Cal]

Oh yes.

 

Churchill?

[saltysplash]

Churchill?

 

 

Its good but its not right....I ordered a Korma

[Naughty Cal]

Its good but its not right....I ordered a Korma

 

Can ya guess what it is yet?

[GUMPY]

Hi Folks,

 

There was no problem for me, and the pair seemed to have no problems, but I just wanted to check the proper procedure for passing in the right way since these days its rare you can practice it - everyone is a wimp! :-)

 

Assuming the oncoming boat doesn't pull over I aim to pass as close as I can to it and use the wall of water that both boats are pushing to keep us apart, then swing into line behind the other boat as I pass the stern, if you see what I mean.

 

If you hold your line I will to

Edited March 11, 2009 by idleness

[bristol & argo]

Hi Folks,

 

I had the oppotunity to pass another working boat coming the other way yesterday. Normally people panic when they see Victoria coming down the canal, and move over 1/4 mile before reaching the boat!

 

My meeting with Archimedes and Ara (I think they were, my memory is getting worse by the day) was interesting. We met on the long straight between the central line railway bridge at Northolt and Greenford (near Lyons dock). I slowed a little as I didn't want my wash to ground them as I passed.

-snip-

 

Mike

 

Barny was quite used to going aground...

I met him half way down the moorings above springwell lock - he was breasted, i was brested and there was not enough water for four woolwiches abreast of the moored boats.

 

Barny just shrugged as with the momentum, Archimedes was able to climb up the off side shelf into the trees!

 

I think he was just resigning to spend the afternoon stuck so was almost too slow to grab the stern line i waved to him, she slid back off (but i'm surprized the line didn't give since he had to take up the strain in about 2 foot of line before our 30+ ton sliped out of reach).

 

I think Barny still has some involvment so presumably the new chaps will now know where the shallow bits are, the Paddington arm shouldn't be a problem anyway.

 

 

 

I think Victoria has a history of scaring people,

When we flew down to Little Venice following the breech at Cowley to gatecrash Cavalcade, Victoria towing Bodmin scared innocent boaters coming the other way. What Zac didn't tell them was there was Dunstable & Olive and Bristol & Argo following right behind (i don't think said innocent boaters could have got any further out of the channel because the piling was in the way).

Note to self: slow down ALOT next time for the turns at Greenford.

 

Most of the time (except wide deep bits - if you can fine them) slowing right down and moving off center when quite close is the only way to avoid grounding yourself (not slowing down, moving over too early and finding a shoal could have the consequence of your stern being sucked to stbd and therefore cause a head on collision).

You will of course be accused of channel hogging anyway since an empty motor doesn't need the channel

 

 

I err on the side of caution - since i started my Woolwich boating on the K&A - and some of those shiny boaters assume it's their own private canal/racetrack.

 

 

 

Simon,

Bristol and Argo

[jake_crew]

I think you did OK.

 

Its a dynamic thing, water depth, weir currents, wind and trees change the situation all the time.

 

I reckon one should slow a little, move over in an attempt to pass L to L about 4 to 6 feet apart.

 

As the boats pass side by side, the suction pulls you round so that you're pointing back towards the centre line of the cut.

 

Heavily laden working boats will tend to need the deeper water. So I've been known to pass R - R (on a LH bend) to give them the deep water, even tho' I am 60' long. Clear signals in good time - no problem.

Edited March 11, 2009 by jake_crew

[David Schweizer]

Use some common sense.

 

If there is room and depth to pass, slow down and do so. If not pull in somewhere safe and let them through.

Pay attention Phylis. Mike was also on a working boat, if it is shallow where dowes he pull into?

 

I have the same problem as my boat is almost as deep as many working boats. Their captains can usually recognise a deep draghted boat, but many modern shallow skimmers cannot, and do not understand why I cannot get closer to the bank. I spend a lot of time on mud banks!!

[Naughty Cal]

Pay attention Phylis. Mike was also on a working boat, if it is shallow where dowes he pull into?

 

 

I have the same problem as my boat is almost as deep as many working boats. Their captains can usually recognise a deep draghted boat, but many modern shallow skimmers cannot, and do not understand why I cannot get closer to the bank. I spend a lot of time on mud banks!!

 

Pay attention David

 

I also have a deep draft at almost 3 foot. I also spend a lot of time kicking up mud. (And duo props can kick some mud up) hanging around waiting for shallow drafted boats to use the deep water. Given that a lot of the Fossdyke is only wide enough for one boat given the narrow channel and the overhanging trees it is something we have had to get used to. Fortunately the bottom is soft and it doesnt damage the props if trimmed up a little.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Phylis

[down the north]

Well,

common sense prevails,,, the way I've done it and will probably always do is to stick to the middle to about 3 boat lengths apart, move to the right about 4 ft from channel centre and pass hopefully about 12 to 18 inches apart,,,,, thats the way I've been taught to pass. Once up the caldon summit, I was on the trip boat, saw this old waterways 'hireboat' coming towards me,,,,,,,,, we both stuck to the middle till about a boat and a half away,,, I thought to myself, either this guy knows exactly what he's doing, or he's very brave. It was raining and as we passed inches away I started the usual passing banter with an expert, that lasted a hundred yards after we had passed, it was Bill Atkins with the Northwich inspection boat (water willow ) ?

 

Another memorable 'parting of the waves'was on Elstree just below Meaford locks, and Malcolm Webster appeared heading south on FMC Mallard. With 3:1 and a 27 inch blade on Elstree, and who knows on mallard, we both 'kept it on' till the last minute, slid sideways 3ft 6 inches, and the sight was quite amazing. Both boats seemed to 'fall' into a trough caused by the pumping of water away from both boats, the usual turn to port, the revs were lowered all round to avoid grounding, and we passed with the satisfaction to all parties that we had 'done it right', each knowing that neither of us gave an inch to the other,,,, but none had put the other in any risk of serious grounding !!

 

And of today,

its very rare to have a 'webster pass' and usually sees the other boat stationary hundreds of yards away !!

ah well, such is life.

Martin

 

 

 

Martin

[bristol & argo]

So hows the passing going Mike?

 

Just spotted you - well Victoria anyway - in the lock below the DLR at Limehouse...

 

 

I had an 'interesting' pass at the weekend,

On Tring Summit, singled out blatting along - north of Tring Station is quite a long bend with lots of tree protruding from the off side.

 

Well, towards the end of it a boat comes the other way, I expected him to slow down so we would pass where it is wider - he didn't.

 

Well, since i had already backed off, Argo decided to wave her stern out of line (being a right hand bend) - he still didn't slow.

 

So at the point where he was passing Bristol, and was still going hell for leather, and the gap between Argo and the trees was about 3 feet, i had wound the engine back up to try and pull Argo back into line.

 

He still hadn't slowed as he kissed Argo and dissapeared into the tree to the sounds of glasses being swept off the roof and smashing

 

 

Oh well - apart from that (and getting stuck in the bottom gates at Cowroast) it was a good day.

 

Simon.

[Proper Job]

Pay attention Phylis. Mike was also on a working boat, if it is shallow where dowes he pull into?

 

I have the same problem as my boat is almost as deep as many working boats. Their captains can usually recognise a deep draghted boat, but many modern shallow skimmers cannot, and do not understand why I cannot get closer to the bank. I spend a lot of time on mud banks!!

I have the same problem as you David. I recently had someone shout at me as I 'hadn't pulled over'. The fact was, I had pulled over as far as the depth would allow me to and had reduced my speed to tick over. They hadn't slowed down as they approached me. The draw of the water slid me off the mud and back in to the centre channel. They nearly went up on to the tow path in trying to avoid me (their bow wave assisted this!). I then got a string of abuse. I did mention to them that they might consider slowing down and that they needed to stop and go back to get their water skier who had obviously fallen off at the last bend.

 

Private 'shiny' boat as well

[dave moore]

Hi all

The most effective way to pass in my opinion is the way many working boaters did - head to head, both in the channel, until the last possible moment, then move over a few feet, passing as closely as possible. This ensures that both boats stay in the deeper water and you then slide back into the channel after passing. This, of course, was the practice with those who knew what the other was doing. The modern habit of moving over miles away (all right - a good distance anyway) and struggling to plough thro' shallow water/ trees etc is a less efficient method, tho' popular today. I was once accused of "Trying to ram me" because I didn't immediately move over on sighting an oncoming boat...he was even grumpier than I am!!

Cheers

Dave

[Night Hawk]

Hmmmm....if it's a genuine working boat plying it's trade on the cut then graciously move aside....if it's a 'hobby' working boater driven by a denim-dungaree clad - prisoner cell block H lookalike grease monkey with a face looking like he's swallowed a wasp then I suggest going into full revs - ramming speed - and bash his rust bucket with as much tonnage as you can muster - if you're lucky enough to see him fall in then either cleave his unwashed head with the neared grappling hook you can find or, better still, use you prop to slice him up like an Italian sausage!

 

This breed of bad tempered, bad mannered, cantankerous old gits who hurl abuse at fellow boaters need culling from our waterways!

 

Ah that's better - off for a pint at the VP!

 

Andrew

[Amduck]

Hmmmm....if it's a genuine working boat plying it's trade on the cut then graciously move aside....if it's a 'hobby' working boater driven by a denim-dungaree clad - prisoner cell block H lookalike grease monkey with a face looking like he's swallowed a wasp then I suggest going into full revs - ramming speed - and bash his rust bucket with as much tonnage as you can muster - if you're lucky enough to see him fall in then either cleave his unwashed head with the neared grappling hook you can find or, better still, use you prop to slice him up like an Italian sausage!

 

This breed of bad tempered, bad mannered, cantankerous old gits who hurl abuse at fellow boaters need culling from our waterways!

 

Ah that's better - off for a pint at the VP!

 

Andrew

 

No, no. Don't mince your words, tell us what you really think

 

 

I think I've met that guy, though.

[Liam]

then I suggest going into full revs - ramming speed - and bash his rust bucket with as much tonnage as you can muster - if you're lucky enough to see him fall in then either cleave his unwashed head with the neared grappling hook you can find or, better still, use you prop to slice him up like an Italian sausage!

 

Andrew

 

I think that if you were to ram a working boat, whether empty or loaded, with sufficient speed to knock either one of you in the cut, I would put my money on you being knocked off your perch

[Night Hawk]

I think that if you were to ram a working boat, whether empty or loaded, with sufficient speed to knock either one of you in the cut, I would put my money on you being knocked off your perch

 

I made it clear I was refering to those 'hobby working boaters' - where the guys look like frumpy lesbians....their boats are never loaded with anything other than their overwhelming sense of superiority....they have 72 foot of boat yet cram all their denim boatwear into an 8 foot cabin....Get a wash, get a shave and get some manners!!!

[Charlie Breakfast]

Hi all

The most effective way to pass in my opinion is the way many working boaters did - head to head, both in the channel, until the last possible moment, then move over a few feet, passing as closely as possible. This ensures that both boats stay in the deeper water and you then slide back into the channel after passing. This, of course, was the practice with those who knew what the other was doing. The modern habit of moving over miles away (all right - a good distance anyway) and struggling to plough thro' shallow water/ trees etc is a less efficient method, tho' popular today. I was once accused of "Trying to ram me" because I didn't immediately move over on sighting an oncoming boat...he was even grumpier than I am!!

Cheers

Dave

 

 

Dave: Full agreement .

 

Plus on shallow sections I slow a bit before the event and then give it a bit of throttle and tiller over to compensate for the bows being dragged over as the other nutter passes at 4 mph ! I find if I dont do this I sometimes get sucked into and then past the middle of the cut and end up with the bow in the mud on the other side.

 

On those relatively lovely deep sections of the Grand Union I find the slide back into the middle nice and gentle and normally dont need to do much throttle or tiller stuff.

 

One other thought...maybe some boaters are getting a bit too preciouse...life must be horrible if you are scared of EVER touching another boat as you pass and feel that 6 FEET is a mininimum safe distance. Ok if you touch and its your "fault" it does not rate as one of the best moments, but equally the reality is that normally nothing or no one gets hurt. To gain skill or knowledge I believe you need to keep gently pushing "the envelope". Getting into locks must give some bods a real stress headache..

 

Cheers

Chas

[Keeping Up]

Getting into locks must give some bods a real stress headache..

There are sadly an ever-increasing number of them who won't share a Grand Union lock with anyone else in case their precious paintwork should get scratched.

[mykaskin]

right, i've had a talk to Tom about my OP passing event. He complained I stayed in the middle while he had to get out of channel - however I'm not sure he was joking or not, or to find out if he really know how to pass properly as we never quite had chance to have a proper chat.

 

As noted, I'm at Limehouse ready for the SPCC barrier cruise on Saturday.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Hairy-Neil]

Getting into locks must give some bods a real stress headache..

 

Saw a boat whilst I was out last week using the bow thruster repeatedly in a narrow lock to avoid touching the sides.....