Heads: Cassette or pump out?

[blackrose]

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Edited January 10, 2009 by blackrose

[david and julie]

We need to put u in the guinness book of records for leg xing and u probably dont ever drink or eat anything,

I doubt Gibbo does without food or drink, he probably just has a well designed system.

 

We have an 80 gallon tank and a Jabsco macerator toilet with dual flush (conserves water and lessens pump-outs) When on holidays with 2 of us on board we get about 5 weeks between pump-outs. When on holiday though, you are on the boat most of the time so will fill the tank more quickly. I would think we would last much longer between pump-outs if we were working as you would use the facilities there much of the time. We have never been stuck in ice with a full tank, we have a contents gauge and just don't push our luck in the colder winter months.

 

Main problem with pump-out V cassettes is cost. We have a good system, but it cost around £1800 or so for materials alone, thats a lot of money compared to a cassette. There is also more chance of problems with a macerator systems because they are more complex. That said, we've had none with ours in 31/2 years of use.

 

Neither a cassette or macerator system should smell if looked after and kept clean.

 

It all depends how you feel about carrying an emptying cassettes and I don't fancy that at all.

[stuartcnz]

If you say so, though my Blakes Baby sea toilet pumps to a holding tank, when moored up so I don't see why having the "Rolls Royce of toilets" must be ruled out, for a canal boat.

 

 

 

 

Aka "The Blakes Baby" (Lavac have bought out the cream of marine equipment manufacturers; Blakes, Taylors, etc).

 

Stick with the best and pump to a holding tank, if you decide to have a pump-out.

 

Personally I would go for a cassette, inland, though.

I would note here that even though Blake/Lavac/Taylor are all one company now, the Baby Blake and the Lavac are two different toilets.

The Lavac is a vacuum operated toilet, which works by having an air tight seal on the lids. When you want to flush, the lids are closed and a diaphragm pump pumps the contents from the outlet, which is 38mm in diameter. the resulting vacuum in the bowl, draws in the flushing water behind it via the inlet. The action of sucking the contents out of the bowl with a pump, instead of flushing them with water, is that the contents are macerated without any kind of machinery. Hence the toilet consists of no more than a porcelain bowl (which has separate inlet and outlet), seat and lid with rubber seals and a diaphragm pump which is separate from the toilet. The only item that can breakdown is the diaphragm pump, which in my case is the manual Henderson mk5 bilge diaphragm pump. It is located in a convenient place (with it's unscrewable face plate) to clear, repair, or replace, independently of the rest of the toilet system.

[Gibbo]

When on holidays with 2 of us on board we get about 5 weeks between pump-outs.

 

Aye. I think a bit of confusion goes on here and some people who only have experience of a cassette toilet (without ever having tried a pump out) seem to think that a pump out is the same size as their little suitcase of poo. It's an odd thought but I can't think of any other reason why a cassette owner would think us "pumouters" have to empty it every 20 minutes like they do.

 

 

Gibbo

[sueb]

I would note here that even though Blake/Lavac/Taylor are all one company now, the Baby Blake and the Lavac are two different toilets.

The Lavac is a vacuum operated toilet, which works by having an air tight seal on the lids. When you want to flush, the lids are closed and a diaphragm pump pumps the contents from the outlet, which is 38mm in diameter. the resulting vacuum in the bowl, draws in the flushing water behind it via the inlet. The action of sucking the contents out of the bowl with a pump, instead of flushing them with water, is that the contents are macerated without any kind of machinery. Hence the toilet consists of no more than a porcelain bowl (which has separate inlet and outlet), seat and lid with rubber seals and a diaphragm pump which is separate from the toilet. The only item that can breakdown is the diaphragm pump, which in my case is the manual Henderson mk5 bilge diaphragm pump. It is located in a convenient place (with it's unscrewable face plate) to clear, repair, or replace, independently of the rest of the toilet system.

If you see Alliance 11 you can discuss toilets locally. The boater has a narrowboat in England.

Sue

[Gibbo]

..........keep taking the tablets.......

 

What are you on? Diuretics and laxatives?

 

 

Gibbo

[Smelly]

Well, we've a cassette. i used to live close to the arse end of the L&L, single handed on 72ft boat, getting through two swing bridges and 2 hrs cruising to the Red Lion for diesel was bad enough never mind hanging around 'til the bloke was around to do the pump out at the boat club next door. A friend of mine waitied a few days to get her tank sorted once; I suppose a good reason for two tanks.

 

Although I can see some sense when mooring in an area with decent facilities, we try to cruise a fair bit so I like the idea, at worst, of chucking it down the loo which is difficult with a pump out however I have seen decent self pump out kits that had me thinking when we were fitting out; main reason for the cassette was we could just stick it on the boat and go, minimal installation required.

[MikeV]

The Lavac is a vacuum operated toilet....

Sounds similar to the Vacuflush which we have. The Vacuflush pump is a bellows type operated by a fairly sturdy geared motor. Even when run for much longer than normal the pump motor body does not even get warm.

 

We definitiely prefer pumpout but we don't livaboard and so are we are unlikely to get stuck without being able to get to pumpout facility. We have 100 gallon tank (estimated as it's completely enclosed by woodwork). It lasts at least 5 weeks, but we've not had it full yet.

 

In fact we've not had the boat long and last year when we cruised I was interested to see how long we could go between pumpouts. It has a simple 3 light tank level system operated by float switches: Empty (green), Mid (Orange) and Full (red). After a couple of weeks the green light indicating empty went out. After 5 weeks the red light (full) came on - no light on the mid-level indicator. Fortunately we were only 24 hours away from our marina and the first thing we did was get a pumpout.

 

I subsequently I investigated the float switches and they all seemed OK. I then examined the indicator panel and found the wiring to the red and orange lights were reversed. So in fact, after 5 weeks we were only up to the mid-level which I would estimate was only a little over 1/2 full. So I would hope we could go around 8 weeks between pumpouts.

 

I've now actually changed the level of the float switches so that "Empty" means less than 3/4 full and "Mid" is about 7/8ths full. This should mean that by the time the "Empty" light goes out we've got about 2 weeks to find a pumpout.

[kathleen bridget]

oh i wish i had a flushable toilet..i love going to people's houses i always visit the bathroom first.. the flush is so wonderful he he

[Dominic M]

I think the one thing that all will agree on is that on the canals, they are called toilets.

Oooh no! How non-U. They are lavatories

[sueb]

Sounds similar to the Vacuflush which we have. The Vacuflush pump is a bellows type operated by a fairly sturdy geared motor. Even when run for much longer than normal the pump motor body does not even get warm.

 

We definitiely prefer pumpout but we don't livaboard and so are we are unlikely to get stuck without being able to get to pumpout facility. We have 100 gallon tank (estimated as it's completely enclosed by woodwork). It lasts at least 5 weeks, but we've not had it full yet.

 

In fact we've not had the boat long and last year when we cruised I was interested to see how long we could go between pumpouts. It has a simple 3 light tank level system operated by float switches: Empty (green), Mid (Orange) and Full (red). After a couple of weeks the green light indicating empty went out. After 5 weeks the red light (full) came on - no light on the mid-level indicator. Fortunately we were only 24 hours away from our marina and the first thing we did was get a pumpout.

 

I subsequently I investigated the float switches and they all seemed OK. I then examined the indicator panel and found the wiring to the red and orange lights were reversed. So in fact, after 5 weeks we were only up to the mid-level which I would estimate was only a little over 1/2 full. So I would hope we could go around 8 weeks between pumpouts.

 

I've now actually changed the level of the float switches so that "Empty" means less than 3/4 full and "Mid" is about 7/8ths full. This should mean that by the time the "Empty" light goes out we've got about 2 weeks to find a pumpout.

I'm interested in your float switch. Can they be retro fitted? Approx how much do they cost etc.

Sue

[estwdjhn]

With all this talk about how long one can go without emptying ones tank, surely a lot depends how much use the thing gets. I liveaboard and have a cassette, but only have to empty it about once every 5 weeks. However, a major reason for this is that I work very long hours, and tend not to spend *that* long onboard and awake most days.

[Pretty Funked Up]

With all this talk about how long one can go without emptying ones tank, surely a lot depends how much use the thing gets. I liveaboard and have a cassette, but only have to empty it about once every 5 weeks. However, a major reason for this is that I work very long hours, and tend not to spend *that* long onboard and awake most days.

 

now that IS economy

[alan_fincher]

I liveaboard and have a cassette, but only have to empty it about once every 5 weeks.

But you are the chap with the "wet gravel ballast" problem, aren't you?

 

Are you absolutely sure the cassette isn't leaking into the bilges?

[David Schweizer]

Aye. I think a bit of confusion goes on here and some people who only have experience of a cassette toilet (without ever having tried a pump out) seem to think that a pump out is the same size as their little suitcase of poo. It's an odd thought but I can't think of any other reason why a cassette owner would think us "pumouters" have to empty it every 20 minutes like they do.

 

 

Gibbo

I had both on my boat for a long while, but eventually settled on only having the Porta Potti. The pumpout was getting a bit old and smelly and no amount of flushuing etc would clean it out properly, and when one of the toilet holding bolts snapped off the decision was made. I was actually suprised to discover how heavy the "empty" tank was, even though it was made of plastic. rather than steel. It turned out to have about three inches of hardened gunge in the bottom, which may well have been the source of the smell.

 

We considered replacing the holding tank and dump through toilet but the cost of a replacement was an influencing factor. As there are now only two of us on the boat and we had become quite used to using the Porta Potti, we bought another second hand Porta Potti as a spare, and utiised the extra space left by the old tank for storage.

 

Having experienced both, I think I would have a Holding tank installed if I was having a new boat built, but would make sure that there was enough space to also be able to use a Porta Potti, just in case.

 

Hows that for sitting on the fence?

[chris w]

The Thetford cassette version of the "Porta Potti" is far more convenient, lighter, easier to use and empty and, with an electric flush, is virtually like the real thing. I can only imagine how you guys stretch it out to 5 days per cassette though. I find, that with 2 people, each cassette lasts 2 days maximum. Maybe we need to lay off the liquorice?

 

Chris

[John Orentas]

For the life of me I really cannot understand how anyone could prefer a porta-potti type system to a pump out installation.. Is humping a tank of raw sewage around a 21st centuary solution..

 

Yes I know all the arguments but in 30 odd years I have never found myself having a full tank with no means of getting to pump out, all it takes is a bit of forward planning or anticipation, and the costs? In the scheme of things and long term the price of a pump-out must be seen close to insignificant.

 

The most important thing, when you design a new boat make your tank as big as you can get away with, mine was 48" wide x 20" length x 14" high, with hindsight you could probably go a bit bigger.

Edited January 11, 2009 by John Orentas

[Naughty Cal]

Has to be pump out every time.

 

Our holding tank is small at 16 gallons but we try and use land based facilities wherever possible. We still get a month out of the tank though so it isnt too bad.

[Bob the welder]

oh i wish i had a flushable toilet..i love going to people's houses i always visit the bathroom first.. the flush is so wonderful he he

HI. we fitted a flushable toilet B AND Q £68 big tank 157 GALS £500 lasts many weeks nice and simple. pumpout £13 just like home .bob

[Smelly]

I can only imagine how you guys stretch it out to 5 days per cassette though.

Chris

 

Facilities round the corner, pub, work etc... When we're cruising we get about 5 days, on our mooring about a fortnight.

[Canal Shop Man]

Why not consider a third alternative - a composting toilet.

 

There are now two types. The all singing all dancing Envirolet which costs a lot but takes ages to fill, or the small Air Head, which is much lower priced, but needs either a urine holding tank or regular urine emptying (no nasty chemicals, so you can empty it virtually anywhere . . .)

[sueb]

For the life of me I really cannot understand how anyone could prefer a porta-potti type system to a pump out installation.. Is humping a tank of raw sewage around a 21st centuary solution..

 

Yes I know all the arguments but in 30 odd years I have never found myself having a full tank with no means of getting to pump out, all it takes is a bit of forward planning or anticipation, and the costs? In the scheme of things and long term the price of a pump-out must be seen close to insignificant.

 

The most important thing, when you design a new boat make your tank as big as you can get away with, mine was 48" wide x 20" length x 14" high, with hindsight you could probably go a bit bigger.

I agree apart from having the largest tank possible. A friend did that and needs two BW tokens to empty it. In that instance two separate tanks would be better.

Sue

[mrsmelly]

Hi gibbo

 

I get it now u r one of those guys that gets off the boat in the middle of the nite or pees off the back........life is 2 short for that messing about, this is much like in the pub the other nite with a few of us on various boats and even though we all had the usual 100 to 150 gal tanks some people thought it realy strange that the wife and I needed to fill the tank every week whilst they only did it once a month........I suppose its because we r stupid enough to get washed........................

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Gibbo]

Hi gibbo

 

I get it now u r one of those guys that gets off the boat in the middle of the nite or pees off the back........life is 2 short for that messing about, this is much like in the pub the other nite with a few of us on various boats and even though we all had the usual 100 to 150 gal tanks some people thought it realy strange that the wife and I needed to fill the tank every week whilst they only did it once a month........I suppose its because we r stupid enough to get washed........................

 

Regards

 

Tim

 

So despite all the pump out owners in this thread stating that they last between 4 and 8 weeks between pump outs you still refuse to accept it?

 

Gibbo

[canalchris]

Sorry but i just think that having to go toThetford to sort your bog out is a bit much.