The butty Rooster on Apollo Duck

[Roger t' Bodger]

Hello everyone I'm back at last!

 

What do you think?

 

 

A friend's husband's neice want to buy the butty Rooster (solar powered) available for around 60K, good idea? I've had a look and it looks bogus from the external 'styling' point of view and just looks like an old day boat done-up good and proper. It looks convincing to any gongoozler but it troubles me when this happens, how long will the hull last before major work will be required.

 

See the lovely photos here - narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?cid=479 - 33k -

 

Roger

 

Incidentally this is my first post since early last year as the computer was changed and this discussion site wouldn't let me back in for some reason so I went elsewhere but missed the quality of the crac. After a valient and persistant hack I've got back on with over a year's worth of material to blind you with. - I hope!

[carlt]

How do you mean "bogus".

 

looks like a bantock to me (but happy to be corrected), certainly not the most basic end of the "day boat" spectrum.

 

The top plank looks way too high, making it look weird and "completely electric"makes you wonder what the 3k genny is for.

 

Not worth 60k, though, imho.

[stewey]

Just to give a proper link to this boat:

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?cid=479

 

Stewey

[Natalie Graham]

Not worth 60k, though, imho.

60k is a bargain price, it says so in the ad.

 

It's been on Apolloduck for quite a while now, from before the present financial problems I believe, and keeps on coming to the top of the list every now and again, so maybe it would be worth trying an 'optimistic' offer.

[Roger t' Bodger]

Thanks so far everyone

 

Carl - Er... bogus - I mean above the gunnels - sorry I can't claim any expertise in types of hulls - life's too short in my case - but just how a boat should look from a practical working boat point of view i.e.

 

I recently saw the pair with motor 'Tarred' moored up in Leicester, the butty is electrically powered in a similar way to Rooster, constructed by the talented owner they cruise in summer and work in London in the winter so their children can go to school. I first saw them head north on the summit pound near Husbands Bosworth on the Leicester GU and for once when I saw the singled out pair asked them if the engine was broke as everytime I steer the butty Brighton I get similar comments.

 

 

Roger

[carlt]

Carl - Er... bogus - I mean above the gunnels - sorry I can't claim any expertise in types of hulls - life's too short in my case - but just how a boat should look from a practical working boat point of view i.e.

Okay, sorry, yep not nice at all, above gunwales, The height of the top plank would make me concerned about what was happening on the bottoms.

 

I know one Bantock that had been ballasted with concrete and had rotted all around the concrete line. To solve this the bottoms and a foot of the sides, from the chine up, had been cut off and new bottoms welded on. Because the hull had lost a foot in height it would have been necessary to make any cabin conversion higher than usual.

[koukouvagia]

Okay, sorry, yep not nice at all, above gunwales, The height of the top plank would make me concerned about what was happening on the bottoms.

 

I know one Bantock that had been ballasted with concrete and had rotted all around the concrete line. To solve this the bottoms and a foot of the sides, from the chine up, had been cut off and new bottoms welded on. Because the hull had lost a foot in height it would have been necessary to make any cabin conversion higher than usual.

 

I agree, it’s difficult getting the lines right when adding a modern conversion to an historic boat. We tried to be as faithful as possible to the original look of a our josher, but when we came to make an under cloth conversion we decided we had to lower the top plank by about 9”. Before the conversion we were able to remove the mast, deckboard and top plank if we came to a low bridge or tunnel. With a hard top this is no longer an option. The distance from base plate to top plank is now 7’ 3”. That’s about as tall as we could get it because now the looby just lightly scrapes the roof of Harecastle.

The other option would have been to keep the original height and ballast the boat down more. This looks what may have been done to Rooster. However, given the shallow depth of many of the canals, we decided to keep the boat as high out of the water as possible.

It’s always a compromise and that’s why the best conversions are done by the handful of specialist restorers and boatbuilders who know through years of experience how to make an historic boat “look right”.

[carlt]

It’s always a compromise and that’s why the best conversions are done by the handful of specialist restorers and boatbuilders who know through years of experience how to make an historic boat “look right”.

It's easy to make them look right. Use the original dimensions then convert under that.

 

Lucy had her original top plank, mast and stands an there was plenty of head room.

 

Obviously Usk couldn't have her original dimensions so I copied Lucy's.

[Chris Pink]

How do you mean "bogus".

 

looks like a bantock to me (but happy to be corrected), certainly not the most basic end of the "day boat" spectrum.

 

The top plank looks way too high, making it look weird and "completely electric"makes you wonder what the 3k genny is for.

 

Not worth 60k, though, imho.

 

 

The reason the top planks are so high is that the height, bottoms to gunnel is only around 2'6" ie the boat was 'chopped' vertically. The solar panels that are on there would no way run the propulsion so it is much more of a hybrid. The fitout (which i haven't seen) was done by a talented geezer (who no longer owns the boat).

 

The boat hasn't been used as far as i know for quite a while.

 

£60K? Someone's having a bit of a giraffe. Though to be fair they probably paid around that as they bought when things were not quite so keenly negotiated.

 

It's easy to make them look right. Use the original dimensions then convert under that.

 

Lucy had her original top plank, mast and stands an there was plenty of head room.

 

Obviously Usk couldn't have her original dimensions so I copied Lucy's.

 

The Small Ricky Albert, ballasted to sit nice in the water has about 18" of railway line inside, making it difficult to achieve headroom without raising the height of the stands - which they have done, sympathetically to my mind although when you see it alongside the proper height of stands it does look a little odd.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Chris Pink

[alan_fincher]

If it's a Bantock, (and it looks like it probably is), then even without cutting the hull sides are I think typically a lot shallower than most working narrow boats. (I can't remember what the sides measured on one I used to own, but it was completely dwarfed by my brother's Town class boats).

 

I believe, (but am not 100% certain), that most were composites, (wrought iron sides, elm bottoms), so it's very likely the bottom will be in steel, and much more recent than the rest of it.

 

There isn't really any debate about what's the "correct" height for a top plank in this case, surely, as a boat of this type would not have had one, nor ever been clothed over, I think.

 

I'm absolutely no expert, but I agree those solar cells are not going to go far towards powering the boat. No doubt the reason for a generator.

 

Bantocks can make lovely conversions, but from the outside, this one looks rather a mess IMO.

[carlt]

If it's a Bantock, (and it looks like it probably is), then even without cutting the hull sides are I think typically a lot shallower than most working narrow boats. (I can't remember what the sides measured on one I used to own, but it was completely dwarfed by my brother's Town class boats).

 

I believe, (but am not 100% certain), that most were composites, (wrought iron sides, elm bottoms), so it's very likely the bottom will be in steel, and much more recent than the rest of it.

 

There isn't really any debate about what's the "correct" height for a top plank in this case, surely, as a boat of this type would not have had one, nor ever been clothed over, I think.

 

I'm absolutely no expert, but I agree those solar cells are not going to go far towards powering the boat. No doubt the reason for a generator.

 

Bantocks can make lovely conversions, but from the outside, this one looks rather a mess IMO.

Town Class boats dwarf nearly everything, except Royalty.

 

Some had a wooden chine plank, as well as bottoms.

 

Like Usk it's not what height they should be but what height looks best. By copying another 5 planker, I think I got it right.

 

This one looks terrible and woud be better as a cabin conversion, considering it's tiny gunwale height..

[AMModels]

It's easy to make them look right. Use the original dimensions then convert under that.

 

Lucy had her original top plank, mast and stands an there was plenty of head room.

 

Obviously Usk couldn't have her original dimensions so I copied Lucy's.

 

Lol you mean you are taller than the three feet planking over would have allowed you? Thinking about it I might try that when I get a boat to keep the kids in!

[Derek R.]

Town Class boats dwarf nearly everything, except Royalty.

 

Some had a wooden chine plank, as well as bottoms.

 

Like Usk it's not what height they should be but what height looks best. By copying another 5 planker, I think I got it right.

 

This one looks terrible and woud be better as a cabin conversion, considering it's tiny gunwale height..

 

You mean size matters?

 

 

'Rooster' - looks like something's sitting high on a fence. The workmanship might be good, but a designer 'slot' to live in? Rather be in a shoe box than a letter box. Sorry if it hurts someone, but there are some folk who should just stay away from boats. Imaginative? Creative? How about stupid waste of time and skill.

[Dalesman]

Just to give a proper link to this boat:

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?cid=479

 

Stewey

Is it my PC as I cant get apolloduck on line.

Cheers

[stewey]

Is it my PC as I cant get apolloduck on line.

Cheers

For some reason a few members have had problems with opening Apollo Duck. I think there is an earlier thread on this problem.

 

I have a similar problem with Dell. I can get into the site but can progress no further. The same thing happens whether I use the laptop (Vista) or the desktop (XP). I haven't had time to investigate it further but in my case it would appear to be a firewall problem as both PC' are affected in the same way.

 

I hope you can find that earlier posting!

 

Stewey

[Richard Fairhurst]

Town Class boats dwarf nearly everything, except Royalty.

There's a pic in one of the Robert Wilson books of a seven-planker, somewhere up on the Rochdale I think.

[carlt]

There's a pic in one of the Robert Wilson books of a seven-planker, somewhere up on the Rochdale I think.

The seven planker, jo-boat, which was broken up at Napton a few years ago was actually not as massive as a Town Class, It's planks being quite narrow.

 

It was only the stern end, though, turned round to be the bows, so I don't how impressive the bows were.

 

Is the wooden header, Hazell, a seven planker?

[Smelly]

The seven planker, jo-boat, which was broken up at Napton a few years ago was actually not as massive as a Town Class, It's planks being quite narrow.

 

It was only the stern end, though, turned round to be the bows, so I don't how impressive the bows were.

 

Is the wooden header, Hazell, a seven planker?

 

I believe 6, she was on a par with Southam and from what I remember the planks were similar sizes...

 

I keep on staring at the ad and wonder where you could fit enough PV modules to even justify calling it "solar powered"? I've got 130W charging my batteries, do I get a badge as well?

 

Ah, scroll down Daniel scroll down... That is not an awful lot really, I see what you meant about "hybrid"... I deffo get a badge now though

Edited January 9, 2009 by Smelly

[Chris Pink]

I believe 6, she was on a par with Southam and from what I remember the planks were similar sizes...

 

I keep on staring at the ad and wonder where you could fit enough PV modules to even justify calling it "solar powered"? I've got 130W charging my batteries, do I get a badge as well?

 

Ah, scroll down Daniel scroll down... That is not an awful lot really, I see what you meant about "hybrid"... I deffo get a badge now though

 

There are two on each side - look like 70W panels, on the slopey bit so i would guess that only 2 are working at any one time. It's also moored in a very shady spot.

[zenataomm]

".................but it troubles me when this happens, how long will the hull last before major work will be required."

 

Wouldn't they go for a survey? I wouldn't spend £6K let alone £60K without extracting as much info as I could from a reputable surveyor.

[Laurence Hogg]

Hello everyone I'm back at last!

 

What do you think?

 

 

A friend's husband's neice want to buy the butty Rooster (solar powered) available for around 60K, good idea? I've had a look and it looks bogus from the external 'styling' point of view and just looks like an old day boat done-up good and proper. It looks convincing to any gongoozler but it troubles me when this happens, how long will the hull last before major work will be required.

 

See the lovely photos here - narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?cid=479 - 33k -

 

Roger

 

Incidentally this is my first post since early last year as the computer was changed and this discussion site wouldn't let me back in for some reason so I went elsewhere but missed the quality of the crac. After a valient and persistant hack I've got back on with over a year's worth of material to blind you with. - I hope!

S

The boat is almost certainly a second generation Bantock, probably a GWR station boat. Bow and stern are original as far as is viewable. These boats are fairly common and if well maintained will go on for ever.

[Paul H]

I had a phone call last night from Pete Harrison (leading narrow boat historian) who is anxious that it is recorded that Rooster is not a Bantock. The hull shape is similar in some respects but there are noteable differences especially around the stern and no record of Bantock ownership.

 

Briefly the boat is BCN 16130 guaged as Boat No 9 for S and D Williams of Birmingham in 1898; however this was a re-registration of BCN 9505 from February 1877 - so quite an ancient boat.

 

It ended up on the River Severn used as a landing stage and was one of a batch sold via Virginia Currer towards the end of 1995. Since then it has moved around the western end of the Kennet and Avon initially under the name of Castle Morton.

 

So quite an interesting boat whatever you might think of the convesion and price!

 

Paul H

[alan_fincher]

That's very interesting, Paul, (to me at least).

 

I once owned a BCN boat that was sold to us as being an 1898 build, and having been part of the fleet at the Stewart & Lloyds Tubeworks at Coombeswood.

 

We never knew a BCN number, or any more of her history, other than she was shortened and given a crude motor back end by Harriss brothers at Bumblehole circa 1960.

 

Based on what I've learnt many years later I wondered if she was a Bantock, but clearly the experts are saying that not everything of that general appearance is. Interestingly my old boat now appears on Jim Shead's list like this....

 

KERBAU Built by BANTOCKS - Length 12.01 metres (39 feet 5 inches ) - Beam 2.14 metres (7 feet ) Metal hull power of 30. Registered with British Waterways number 60662 as a Powered. Last registration recorded on 11-Jul-07.

 

so it looks like a current owner has concluded it was Bantock.

 

If this is the correct "Castle Morton", it shows as unpowered, but no builder.

 

CASTLE MORTON - Length 21.34 metres (70 feet ) - Beam 2.13 metres (7 feet ) Metal hull . Registered with British Waterways number 509436 as a Unpowered. Last registration recorded on 19-Apr-05.