Lister lacking power

[estwdjhn]

On Saturday I took the boat out for its first run of any significant length.

 

5 1/2 miles down to Bosley top lock and back.

 

Initially, the old Lister rattled along happily, but about 1/2 way down to Bosely perfomance began to suffer somewhat.

Opening the throttle further brought no increase in rpm, but lots of exra black smoke...

 

After throttling back to the point of "happiness" and plodding on a little further, it occured to me that a possible explanation was something wrapped round the prop. So, mooring up, I proceeded to spend a happy 10 mins dangling my arm through the weed hatch, and finding little to worry about.

 

In the absence of a better plan, I decided to continue, and so set of again towards Bosley. Low and behold, the little lister suddenly changed perfomance, and seemed capable of running away at speed again... I found myself throttling back in order to avoid creating too much wash.

 

Subsiquent invesigation seemed to suggest that the engine runs fine for half an hour or so under way, and then slowly lose power, which was restored after a few minutes stationary.

 

Pondering this, I concluded overheating is about the only probable cause - is this a common lister problem, and is there a simple cure? I would rather like to be able to travel normally, and not just in 30min stages...

[Alec Gatherer]

A common problem with Listers is that the cooling air, having passed through the fins, is not expelled out of the engine room but is able to recycle back round into the cooling system. In other words, the air must be ducted outboard straight from the cooling jacket, not just discharged into the engine area. Also ther must be an adequate inlet for cool fresh air for the fan to drag into the cooling jacket.

Another thing to check is that the cooling fins are clear; you will see in the Workshop manual a special tool, a purpose-shaped rake, for dragging through the fins to shift gunge and debris.

Plenty more things to suggest, but check those first.

[kayDee]

On Saturday I took the boat out for its first run of any significant length.

 

5 1/2 miles down to Bosley top lock and back.

 

Initially, the old Lister rattled along happily, but about 1/2 way down to Bosely perfomance began to suffer somewhat.

Opening the throttle further brought no increase in rpm, but lots of exra black smoke...

 

After throttling back to the point of "happiness" and plodding on a little further, it occured to me that a possible explanation was something wrapped round the prop. So, mooring up, I proceeded to spend a happy 10 mins dangling my arm through the weed hatch, and finding little to worry about.

 

In the absence of a better plan, I decided to continue, and so set of again towards Bosley. Low and behold, the little lister suddenly changed perfomance, and seemed capable of running away at speed again... I found myself throttling back in order to avoid creating too much wash.

 

Subsiquent invesigation seemed to suggest that the engine runs fine for half an hour or so under way, and then slowly lose power, which was restored after a few minutes stationary.

 

Pondering this, I concluded overheating is about the only probable cause - is this a common lister problem, and is there a simple cure? I would rather like to be able to travel normally, and not just in 30min stages...

 

Same thing happened to me last week and it ended up being leaves round the prop. I did the same as you - pulled in and had a look in the hatch and nothing there. But, as I was pulling in to the side, I whizzed it into reverse to stop the boat and probably whooshed them all out (but hadn't noticed) - then a bit further along, it did the same again so I threw it into reverse and a ton of leaves came out in the prop wash - then the engine built up speed again. I got to a point where I was revving the engine in gear at about 1400rpm but was going nowhere, as if the linkage had broken between the gearbox and the prop! But, it was all just leaves! They're terrible little things! The canal did look like a rather large leaf carpet though - it was crazy!

Kay

x

[estwdjhn]

There is a canvas "exit" hose from the engine jacket to a grid in the gunnel. I'll check next time its running that air is blown from that - I suspect it may not be.

 

The engine bay is fairly big, I would be supprised if the ambient temperatures in there in November are above normal air temperature on a warm summers day...

 

I'll have to investigate the joys of the cooling fins - at 29 years old, its not beyond the bounds of possiblity they have gained more than a few cobwebbs

 

Interesting point above leaves and reverse - I can't remember if I used reverse when mooring - possibly not. There were a lot of leaves about, and I did find a few floating in the weedhatch when I opened up...

Edited November 17, 2008 by estwdjhn

[Biggles]

I will assume its an air cooled one.

 

This exactly mimics my problems with my previous engine. I had an SL3 in a 60' NB and it was underpowered for the boat. As soon as it overheats it will lose power an produce black smoke if insufficient cooling is available. Once I cured the flow of air, moor particularly getting the hot air out the problem reduced significantly.

 

The problem later re-appeared this time it was because a leaking injector had flooded the sump with diesel. To establish this check your oil level. If it is higher than expected this might be your problem.

 

Does your engine room have the required airflow as per the manual?, are the cooling fins clear? Is the hot air being dumped outside the boat?

 

I have since changed my engine to the ST3 which is almost 3 time the power of the SL3

 

Biggles

Edited November 17, 2008 by Biggles

[estwdjhn]

I doubt it is underpowered for the application - 31ft boat with an SR2. (13hp). It moves the boat pretty quickly when cold, far faster than I was trying to travel...

 

It sounds like its probably got poor airflow and blocked fins... hopefully both will be easy to solve.

[OptedOut]

I'd go for the leaf thing this time of year, they build up in a great wad on the leading edge of the prop.

When you have the next problem try a quick squirt of reverse.

[down the north]

I'd go for the leaf thing this time of year, they build up in a great wad on the leading edge of the prop.

When you have the next problem try a quick squirt of reverse.

 

Quite agree, you just dont notice the pick up of leaves, give it a blast regularly this time of year, and as always, remember the best boaters are rarely looking forwards !!!!!!!!!!!

martin

[journeyperson]

I'd go for the leaf thing this time of year, they build up in a great wad on the leading edge of the prop.

When you have the next problem try a quick squirt of reverse.

 

 

I concur with this theory. I was cruising on the Bridgewater last weekend and had almost convinced myself that the gearbox clutch plates were worn and slipping, because the engine note hardly changed but I wasn't going anywhere. I found that a blast in reverse seemed to eject a lot of leaves after which I made swift progress again for 15 minutes or so before having to repeat the procedure again. I have never cruised leaf carpeted canals before and was amazed how much they affected progress.

[RLWP]

I concur with this theory. I was cruising on the Bridgewater last weekend and had almost convinced myself that the gearbox clutch plates were worn and slipping, because the engine note hardly changed but I wasn't going anywhere. I found that a blast in reverse seemed to eject a lot of leaves after which I made swift progress again for 15 minutes or so before having to repeat the procedure again. I have never cruised leaf carpeted canals before and was amazed how much they affected progress.

 

Me too. We could hardly get Tawny Owl out of Tyrley locks because of leaves. Naturally when you go down the weedhatch, there's nothing there!

 

Richard

 

Try watching the water behind the boat if you give the engine a bit of slow reverse. You will probably see a big plume of leaves in the water.

[denboy]

I will assume its an air cooled one.

 

This exactly mimics my problems with my previous engine. I had an SL3 in a 60' NB and it was underpowered for the boat. As soon as it overheats it will lose power an produce black smoke if insufficient cooling is available. Once I cured the flow of air, moor particularly getting the hot air out the problem reduced significantly.

 

The problem later re-appeared this time it was because a leaking injector had flooded the sump with diesel. To establish this check your oil level. If it is higher than expected this might be your problem.

 

Does your engine room have the required airflow as per the manual?, are the cooling fins clear? Is the hot air being dumped outside the boat?

 

I have since changed my engine to the ST3 which is almost 3 time the power of the SL3

 

Biggles

agree with biggles i have seen similar problems with a few listers,, inside the rocker covers there are rubber Tee pieces on the fuel pipes and when warm they squirt diesel into the sump boat would run perfect for 2 hours then seize leave it for half an hour and it would be fine again if its 29 yrs old its a good guess they will be perished

[OptedOut]

agree with biggles i have seen similar problems with a few listers,, inside the rocker covers there are rubber Tee pieces on the fuel pipes and when warm they squirt diesel into the sump boat would run perfect for 2 hours then seize leave it for half an hour and it would be fine again if its 29 yrs old its a good guess they will be perished

 

You could do a quick check for internal fuel leakage by checking the sump level, should rise if you have a leak.

[mayalld]

On Saturday I took the boat out for its first run of any significant length.

 

5 1/2 miles down to Bosley top lock and back.

 

Initially, the old Lister rattled along happily, but about 1/2 way down to Bosely perfomance began to suffer somewhat.

Opening the throttle further brought no increase in rpm, but lots of exra black smoke...

 

After throttling back to the point of "happiness" and plodding on a little further, it occured to me that a possible explanation was something wrapped round the prop. So, mooring up, I proceeded to spend a happy 10 mins dangling my arm through the weed hatch, and finding little to worry about.

 

It could well be leaves, as others have said.

 

They accumulate on the leading edge, and make the prop ineffective.

 

Of course, as soon as you stop, they fall off, and there is nothing to find when you open the weed hatch, thereby convincing you that it must be something else.

 

Try dropping into neutral for a few seconds, a quick burst of reverse, back into neutral, then re-engage gear.

[alan_fincher]

Try dropping into neutral for a few seconds, a quick burst of reverse, back into neutral, then re-engage gear.

What, I have often wondered, are you supposed to do if you go into reverse when entering a leaf filled lock, and get bu**er all stopping power?

 

When you are already heading far too fast towards the 'cill', it takes a certain nerve to take it out of gear and actually put power on in forwards, even for a brief while.

 

Actually I do know the answer. When leaf fall is a problem, enter any likely affected lock slower!

[Liam]

Either check the boat with a rope when going down, or crack open a bit of top paddle when going up.

 

Both will slow you down

[alan_fincher]

..........or crack open a bit of top paddle when going up.

 

Both will slow you down

Not so easy when on the moving boat, 6 feet down a slippery locksizde, and at least 60 feet from the paddle!

 

Fine if you have some crew on the bank, but not really possible otherwise.

[Liam]

Line the boat up for the lock so you know the pointy bit will go into the chamber, then hop along the roof, and jump off at the front as the boat goes into the lock. That gives you enough time to walk up to the top end.

 

No I haven't tried it either

[madcat]

Ive had the "leaves on the line" problem and the fuel dilution problem with my HA2.Suggestions about ensuring adequate cooling are wise and prudent,A typical fluff bunny in my engine room is a mixture of clothes fluff my long hairs and assorted animal hair off my clothes all nicely bound up with a bit of oil! this stuff also gets in the cooling fins and needs scraped out at engine maintainance time. you definatly need to keep an eye on listers for the fuel leakage habit it is a real pain . Saying that I still love dear old Dave, my trusty engine as he does keep on going good.

[estwdjhn]

Leaves on the line it was.

 

I ran up to just past Bollington last night, then back this morning. As has been suggested, when power was lacking, a good application of reverse saw it miraculously return...

 

Thanks all.

[Proper Job]

Leaves even bought me to a stop at the weekend on a couple of occasions.

 

Usually nothing tends to effect a 26" prop

 

Famous last words

[Nickhlx]

Lister with power problems ? It's obvious.... it's feeling a bit listless.....

 

( Groan )

 

Nick

 

( I'll get my coat )