Current Red diesel prices around you ?

[KenK]

Greenham on the K&A was 95P / L on Saturday and I understood from another boater Devises was even more expensive. Local garages are all around £1.10 for white but that seems to be coming down daily.

 

Ken

[David Schweizer]

Greenham on the K&A was 95P / L on Saturday and I understood from another boater Devises was even more expensive. Local garages are all around £1.10 for white but that seems to be coming down daily.

 

Ken

My experience of the K&A is that apart from Digger at Sheepwash you won't get diesel very cheap anywhwere. The Marinas and Boatyards all belong to a local Trading Association and agree not to compete with each orther. this enables them to keep their prices unrealisticly high (allegedley)

[GeoffS]

Heyford Fields Marina has never been higher than 80p a litre all summer. Still was 2 or 3 weeks ago. Bridge 32 at Nether Heyford was up to 95p a while ago and is now down to, IIRC, 85p last week.

 

Isnt it amazing how we feel happy when my local garage was selling Unleaded at 'only' 99.9 last weekend!

[wonderdust]

Interesting, now if that is true how many marina's have two or more pumps!

 

Foxes Marina £1.10

 

After November 1st . Fuel at Propulsion rate only (£1.72) , Local Trading standards require second pump be installed if selling at two diffent duty rates.

 

Firesprite

[Athy]

HOW MUCH???? And I thought that Fox's (my nearest marina) were the good guys'n'gals.

[Canal Shop Man]

OK, let's give a Marina's point of view:

 

1 We can only buy limited quantities at a time, so we cannot buy at the price the big forecourt retailers can command. Even if we have a large storage capacity, we cannot afford the investment to buy a lot!

 

2 We only have a limited number of customers, so have to put a reasonable margin on the price to make it worthwhile having the equipment and paying the staff to supply it.

 

3 When the price comes down at the forecourt, it doesn't necessarily mean that our suppliers have brought the price down yet, nor does it mean we can immediately buy more at that price, since the chances are we will have recently filled up at the higher price.

 

The long and short of this is that we may not be the cheapest around, but we need to charge the price we do to stay in business. Hopefully we can keep the price for non-propulsion diesel lower than forecourts, but, especially as red diesel is a higher sulphur diesel than white diesel, we will almost certainly be higher for propulsion diesel.

 

Whilst marinas and chandleries get slagged off regularly on this forum, we generally don't make a fortune out of you and, if we don't make enough, we will close and then it gets even harder for you to get the bits that you need.

 

By the way, we are currently charging 79p a litre and have had no official notification at all about what we are supposed to do from 1st November!

My supplier is now charging 2p a litre less . . .

After Nov 1st, we will be charging 43p more for propulsion diesel as that's the extra it will cost us - we won't be making a profit out of the extra tax.

[Robbo]

By the looks of this even with a 60/40 split it will cheaper to fill from the forecourt rather than a Marina. Don't fancy carting around a jerry can back and forth but I guess lots will. I can see alot more diesel ending up in the cut, and Marina's having to put prices up due to less demand and even more jerry cans been sold!

Edited October 21, 2008 by Robbo

[wonderdust]

Don't take this the wrong way, just a question? If you have had no instructions/notification how can you add 43p to the price?

 

 

OK, let's give a Marina's point of view:

 

1 We can only buy limited quantities at a time, so we cannot buy at the price the big forecourt retailers can command. Even if we have a large storage capacity, we cannot afford the investment to buy a lot!

 

2 We only have a limited number of customers, so have to put a reasonable margin on the price to make it worthwhile having the equipment and paying the staff to supply it.

 

3 When the price comes down at the forecourt, it doesn't necessarily mean that our suppliers have brought the price down yet, nor does it mean we can immediately buy more at that price, since the chances are we will have recently filled up at the higher price.

 

The long and short of this is that we may not be the cheapest around, but we need to charge the price we do to stay in business. Hopefully we can keep the price for non-propulsion diesel lower than forecourts, but, especially as red diesel is a higher sulphur diesel than white diesel, we will almost certainly be higher for propulsion diesel.

 

Whilst marinas and chandleries get slagged off regularly on this forum, we generally don't make a fortune out of you and, if we don't make enough, we will close and then it gets even harder for you to get the bits that you need.

 

By the way, we are currently charging 79p a litre and have had no official notification at all about what we are supposed to do from 1st November!

My supplier is now charging 2p a litre less . . .

After Nov 1st, we will be charging 43p more for propulsion diesel as that's the extra it will cost us - we won't be making a profit out of the extra tax.

[Canal Shop Man]

Don't take this the wrong way, just a question? If you have had no instructions/notification how can you add 43p to the price?

Just 'cos I haven't had notification, doesn't mean I can't look on the HMRC website and prepare myself for 1st Nov.

I've been on this forum long enough not to take offence at any comments . . .

[GUMPY]

By the way, we are currently charging 79p a litre and have had no official notification at all about what we are supposed to do from 1st November!

My supplier is now charging 2p a litre less . . .

 

I would shop around for a new supplier, I know of people that are buying at way less that that for quantities of 1000L

example quote 2 weeks ago: British Benzol; £0.5677 (+5%vat)

and prices have come down since then

 

Julian

[Justme]

Why dont you all buy tank fulls direct from a distrubution company? I buy 500-1000L at a time for my tractor & genny & current prices are about 50p L. They do have a min del of 500L but I am sure they would split that between two boats as long as one was the account holder & responsible for paying. All you need is a spot to moor near enough to a parking spot for the tanker. Mioght even be able to get a group of you to get filled up all on the same day for a better price.

 

 

Justme

 

OH & PS

 

when prices are going UP the sellers raise the price on old stock & make more money so when its going down they should lower the price & loose money. Its the market forces. Dont buy from them if they are over charging. They will either stop it or go bust.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Justme

[GUMPY]

Why dont you all buy tank fulls direct from a distrubution company? I buy 500-1000L at a time for my tractor & genny & current prices are about 50p L. They do have a min del of 500L but I am sure they would split that between two boats as long as one was the account holder & responsible for paying. All you need is a spot to moor near enough to a parking spot for the tanker. Mioght even be able to get a group of you to get filled up all on the same day for a better price.

 

The problem is that ELFINSAFTY has put a block on that

Most firms will not deliver direct to boats due to risk of it going in the cut.

 

I can take 1000L at a time and its difficult to get a delivery

 

Julian

[tosher]

75 pence per litre at Nantwich Marine today.

[magnetman]

The problem is that ELFINSAFTY has put a block on that

Most firms will not deliver direct to boats due to risk of it going in the cut.

 

I can take 1000L at a time and its difficult to get a delivery

 

Julian

thats what I was thinking but the coal boats get their tanks filled from a road vehicle.

 

I have an idea they may be responsible for it in terms of insurance, as they are running a business and this would remove the responsibility from the tanker company.

[cotswoldsman]

OK, let's give a Marina's point of view:

 

1 We can only buy limited quantities at a time, so we cannot buy at the price the big forecourt retailers can command. Even if we have a large storage capacity, we cannot afford the investment to buy a lot!

 

2 We only have a limited number of customers, so have to put a reasonable margin on the price to make it worthwhile having the equipment and paying the staff to supply it.

 

3 When the price comes down at the forecourt, it doesn't necessarily mean that our suppliers have brought the price down yet, nor does it mean we can immediately buy more at that price, since the chances are we will have recently filled up at the higher price.

 

The long and short of this is that we may not be the cheapest around, but we need to charge the price we do to stay in business. Hopefully we can keep the price for non-propulsion diesel lower than forecourts, but, especially as red diesel is a higher sulphur diesel than white diesel, we will almost certainly be higher for propulsion diesel.

 

Whilst marinas and chandleries get slagged off regularly on this forum, we generally don't make a fortune out of you and, if we don't make enough, we will close and then it gets even harder for you to get the bits that you need.

 

By the way, we are currently charging 79p a litre and have had no official notification at all about what we are supposed to do from 1st November!

My supplier is now charging 2p a litre less . . .

After Nov 1st, we will be charging 43p more for propulsion diesel as that's the extra it will cost us - we won't be making a profit out of the extra tax.

 

1. norbury Wharf is just a Marina price 64.9 ppl

 

2. Don't know where you are but maybe if you were cheaper then you would sell more Turners at Wheaton Aston quite often you have to Q (62.9 ppl)

 

After 1 Novemebr 2008 you should only charge 40.66 extra for propulsion diesel so why 43p?

[nbfiresprite]

Interesting, now if that is true how many marina's have two or more pumps!

I did check with trading standards, It was their view that by using the same pump for two diffent duty and vat rates, would not be legal. As there could be errors in charging. Jones of St Ives (Cambridgeshire) is swicthing to selling white from November to get round it.

 

Firesprite

[cotswoldsman]

The problem is that ELFINSAFTY has put a block on that

Most firms will not deliver direct to boats due to risk of it going in the cut.

 

I can take 1000L at a time and its difficult to get a delivery

 

Julian

 

During the winter months when we a 3 boats cruising very slowly we have diesel delivered to our boats from a supplier near Chester called him today and at present he is 0.61 ppl delivered to towpath this is delivered in a small tanker with a nozel exactly the same as any pump cant quite see where the HS comes into it. Minimum delivery 500 lires

[bottle]

I may be wrong but if the diesel is delivered by tanker, then surely you would still have to declare the percentages.

 

I wonder if all these companies will still do it after November 1^st

 

Just thinking out loud. (the thinking was the difficult bit)

[Canal Shop Man]

After 1 Novemebr 2008 you should only charge 40.66 extra for propulsion diesel so why 43p?

Plus VAT at 5% = 42.69p - OK I'm making 0.31p profit . . .

[cotswoldsman]

I did check with trading standards, It was their view that by using the same pump for two diffent duty and vat rates, would not be legal. As there could be errors in charging. Jones of St Ives (Cambridgeshire) is swicthing to selling white from November to get round it.

 

Firesprite

 

This is b@@@@@ks VAT is only at one rate for both propulsion and non and duty of 40.66 ppl is charged on propulsion one of the main reasons that HMCR have opted with this scheme was so that marinas would not have to have 2 pumps and tanks.

 

this link http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ria/ria-annexboats.pdf give full explanation on how the new system was arrived at

point 9 is as follows

 

The supply infrastructure supports use of red diesel as most suppliers of fuel to the boat industry provide only rebated red diesel; fuel sites are typically located in harbours, marinas, on floating barges and on towpaths. Supplying a second fuel stream would involve substantial cost for suppliers (new pumps and tanks are estimated at £20,000);

 

Again seems a case of people in this case it would appear Trading Standards not understandin the new system and the reasons for it.

[Canal Shop Man]

I may be wrong but if the diesel is delivered by tanker, then surely you would still have to declare the percentages.

 

I wonder if all these companies will still do it after November 1^st

 

Just thinking out loud. (the thinking was the difficult bit)

Yes, you are right. All suppliers either have to supply registered dealers or end users, who will have to declare, sign to confirm this and pay the extra.

[chris w]

posted in error

 

Chris

Edited October 21, 2008 by chris w

[bottle]

Is vat chargeable on the duty?

[chris w]

Yes. In this country we get taxed on a tax!!!!

 

Chris

[cotswoldsman]

Plus VAT at 5% = 42.69p - OK I'm making 0.31p profit . . .

 

Again you are wrong!!! Please read the document

 

Quote

 

The current full rate of duty is 50.35 pence per litre (ppl). The rebated rate is 9.69 ppl. The additional duty that must be charged to private users on fuel they intend to use for propulsion is 40.66 ppl.

 

 

Unquote

 

The figure of 50.35 pence is with 17.5% VAT to bring it down to 5% VAT you deduct 9.69 p so the duty quoted of 40.66 includes VAT at 5% so you are trying to make 3 ppl profit