Mooring Alongside on the Thames

[Sir Nibble]

If it is necessary, for safety reasons, then politeness may demand that you inform me of the reason that leaves you with no choice, but you would be informing, not asking.

If there is time and control in hand to ask, it's not an emergency.

[Chris Pink]

I think your post demonstrates the necessity, as you appear to believe that if there are no other moorings available, you should have a right to moor alongside me.

 

That's correct and the Environment Agency would appear to support my view.

[mayalld]

That's correct and the Environment Agency would appear to support my view.

 

I rather think not.

 

The fact that they are issuing stickers that people who are happy to be moored to can display tells me that they accept that a lack of other spaces does NOT give you a right to moor to another boat. If it was a right, the stickers would not be necessary.

 

The fact that there are some people who believe that they have a right to moor to other boats regardless of the wishes of the other boater tells me that we do actually need a code.

[sueb]

I rather think not.

 

The fact that they are issuing stickers that people who are happy to be moored to can display tells me that they accept that a lack of other spaces does NOT give you a right to moor to another boat. If it was a right, the stickers would not be necessary.

 

The fact that there are some people who believe that they have a right to moor to other boats regardless of the wishes of the other boater tells me that we do actually need a code.

We have too many rules already, we certainly don't need any more. Allowing a boat to moor alongside is just good manners. At Upton we were 3 out and another 3 came alongside. No problems at all. No generator should be running after 8pm. There is a rule about that.

Sue

[mayalld]

We have too many rules already, we certainly don't need any more. Allowing a boat to moor alongside is just good manners. At Upton we were 3 out and another 3 came alongside. No problems at all. No generator should be running after 8pm. There is a rule about that.

Sue

Allowing another boat to moor alongside is something that is kind if you do it, but it is rather more than "just good manners". Just good manners implies that it is poor manners not to allow another boat to moor alongside.

 

I can't agree with that.

 

I don't think it to be in any way unreasonable to say "sorry, no, I would rather not have a boat moored alongside me".

 

The fact that there doesn't seem to be any agreement about what is reasonable suggests that we do need rules.

 

Until such time as we do have rules, I will personally apply the rules that I set out to my personal conduct.

 

I should add that I am very familiar with double mooring. We are double moored on our home mooring, and that tells me that it is difficult enough with people you know well, let alone somebody who just rolled up.

[blackrose]

I should add that I am very familiar with double mooring. We are double moored on our home mooring, and that tells me that it is difficult enough with people you know well, let alone somebody who just rolled up.

 

I'm sure it can be difficult, but I'm fortunate enough never to have had a problem so it doesn't have to be.

Edited July 14, 2008 by blackrose

[sueb]

Allowing another boat to moor alongside is something that is kind if you do it, but it is rather more than "just good manners". Just good manners implies that it is poor manners not to allow another boat to moor alongside.

 

I can't agree with that.

 

I don't think it to be in any way unreasonable to say "sorry, no, I would rather not have a boat moored alongside me".

 

The fact that there doesn't seem to be any agreement about what is reasonable suggests that we do need rules.

 

Until such time as we do have rules, I will personally apply the rules that I set out to my personal conduct.

 

I should add that I am very familiar with double mooring. We are double moored on our home mooring, and that tells me that it is difficult enough with people you know well, let alone somebody who just rolled up.

I don't agree at all. I think it is very unreasonable to say no. The only time boaters double moor are in places where moorings are scarce. To prevent someone mooring up for the night is just downright rude.

Sue

[mayalld]

I don't agree at all. I think it is very unreasonable to say no. The only time boaters double moor are in places where moorings are scarce. To prevent someone mooring up for the night is just downright rude.

Sue

You will just have to think of me as rude then, because I will say no. If a mooring is popular, you have to get there early for a place. If you don't get there early, you have to go on.

 

Imagining that you can arrive when you like, and just expect to inconvenience others by mooring alongside them is presumptuous.

[Liam]

Out of curiosity, may I ask why you think why double mooring is difficult?

 

Have you never been in a position where you have to move the boat, for example in your spare time after work or at weekends to make it to either dry dock, or whatever. When you are in that kind of situation you cannot pick and choose where you moor up, you are left with little choice as, in the past, when moving/delivering boats I've stopped when it got dark to get back home again in time for work the next morning. Would you say "no" to me asking you if I may moor up over night at a popular spot which has no spare space?

 

For some reason I can imagine you in the "Leave big gaps between boats when mooring up" category.

[blackrose]

You will just have to think of me as rude then, because I will say no. If a mooring is popular, you have to get there early for a place. If you don't get there early, you have to go on.

 

Imagining that you can arrive when you like, and just expect to inconvenience others by mooring alongside them is presumptuous.

 

May I ask how you decide when to allow someone to brest up next to you and when you say no? Does it depend on their boat, their face; do you have some other criteria or does it just depend on your mood when the request is made?

 

I don't agree at all. I think it is very unreasonable to say no. The only time boaters double moor are in places where moorings are scarce. To prevent someone mooring up for the night is just downright rude.

Sue

 

I have to say that if I received a polite request to brest up next to my boat, I would feel very uncomfortable with myself knowing that I had sent another boater away. I was once refused by another widebeamer and I wasn't too impressed.

[mayalld]

Out of curiosity, may I ask why you think why double mooring is difficult?

 

Certainly. We are permanently double moored to on our home mooring, and even with other moorers that you know and get on with it is a PITA getting in and out of the mooring.

 

Have you never been in a position where you have to move the boat, for example in your spare time after work or at weekends to make it to either dry dock, or whatever. When you are in that kind of situation you cannot pick and choose where you moor up, you are left with little choice as, in the past, when moving/delivering boats I've stopped when it got dark to get back home again in time for work the next morning. Would you say "no" to me asking you if I may moor up over night at a popular spot which has no spare space?

 

Yes, I have been in situations like that. If the popular spot is full, I may have to cruise on for another hour to find a spot. Life is like that. I wouldn't dream of arriving at a popular spot at 7pm, knowing that all the moorings are gone by 4, and expect to just tie up alongside somebody else.

 

That is just too much like the drivers who ignore all the signs that a lane on a motorway is going to end, and sail right past a line of traffic in a queue, before expecting to be let in at the end.

 

For some reason I can imagine you in the "Leave big gaps between boats when mooring up" category.

 

Your imagination is defective. I am not in that category, in fact I have no time whatsoever for those who are.

 

May I ask how you decide when to allow someone to brest up next to you and when you say no? Does it depend on their boat, their face; do you have some other criteria or does it just depend on your mood when the request is made?

In general, I would only accept somebody that I know mooring alongside me. Beyond that, I would agree to a request from somebody who was in a pickle that wasn't just down to lack of foresight on their part.

[Liam]

Double mooring on your permanent mooring could be, as you say, a PITA, yes but I can't really see any big deal about coming alongside somebody, and asking politely before dropping your fenders and tying up on the outside, for just one night.

 

You may think my imagination is defective, but it works for me.

[WJM]

"I can't really see any big deal about coming alongside somebody, and asking politely before dropping your fenders and tying up on the outside, for just one night"

 

 

I can!

 

The noise of strangers, the proximity of other people, the claustrophobia of being hemmed in, the inability to leave early in the morning, the loss of a wonderful view, the oppression of having to keep quiet for fear of disturbing my 'neighbour'. All of these things conflict totally with the very reasons I go boating. Remove these things and I have almost nothing left from my personal list of enjoyments. I can get all of this close proximity stuff at a Travelodge.

 

 

And to put the boot on the other foot, I would never breast up on another boat. I have never failed to find a mooring somewhere near my intended stopping place. Sometimes that involves an unprepared river bank, extensive rope and anchor work and a plank.

[blackrose]

The bottom line is that due to the increasing popularity of boating on the Thames, the EA is trying to get us all to participate in bresting up in order to maximise the availability of scarce visitor moorings. Obviously some of us don't wish to participate (except in exceptional circumstances), but I wonder how these people would feel if this campaign became mandatory rather than voluntary? I can see this happening eventually.

Edited July 15, 2008 by blackrose

[Bones]

"I can't really see any big deal about coming alongside somebody, and asking politely before dropping your fenders and tying up on the outside, for just one night"

 

 

I can!

 

The noise of strangers, the proximity of other people, the claustrophobia of being hemmed in, the inability to leave early in the morning, the loss of a wonderful view, the oppression of having to keep quiet for fear of disturbing my 'neighbour'. All of these things conflict totally with the very reasons I go boating. Remove these things and I have almost nothing left from my personal list of enjoyments. I can get all of this close proximity stuff at a Travelodge.

 

 

And to put the boot on the other foot, I would never breast up on another boat. I have never failed to find a mooring somewhere near my intended stopping place. Sometimes that involves an unprepared river bank, extensive rope and anchor work and a plank.

 

 

It sounds as though you aren't as straight forward in your refusals at it seems as you would let someone in dire striats moor next to you, and that would be assessed by your standards. As many of us here who would be mooring alongside would only do so in dire straits, I expect you would help us, rather than turn an ailing boater in need away. Even if it meant asking your neighbour if the other boat could breast up to them.

 

Boating is a community, perhaps those of us who live on our boats and are able to get out and about a bit more, are a more laid back about our trips. However, if you are generally moored in a carpark in close proximity to people, it is vaguely understandable. What isn't understandable was the perceived attitude that you had where you would rather watch a boater drown and die than have them moor next to you.

 

All these things can be altered by mooring on the outside should the situation arise. As for noise, I would be amazed if you knew I was acutally ON my boat if I moored alongside you!

Edited July 15, 2008 by Bones

[tidal]

Breasting up is common in the salty water environments an although awkward at times, it just requires a little consideration from the boaters involved to be entirely workable.

 

HOWEVER, following some problems, some marine insurers are insisting that when it is done EACH boat MUST have their OWN lines ashore to mooring points or they may not classify the boat as being "moored in a secure manner" should damage occur.

 

Whether or not this applies to inshore boating I do not know, but having seen the way some boaters tie up I would insist upon this......it reduces the strain on the inside boat anyway.

[BEngo]

Breasting up is common in the salty water environments an although awkward at times, it just requires a little consideration from the boaters involved to be entirely workable.

 

HOWEVER, following some problems, some marine insurers are insisting that when it is done EACH boat MUST have their OWN lines ashore to mooring points or they may not classify the boat as being "moored in a secure manner" should damage occur.

 

Whether or not this applies to inshore boating I do not know, but having seen the way some boaters tie up I would insist upon this......it reduces the strain on the inside boat anyway.

 

 

I don't think I can add to the general debate, but I do feel that it is important when breasted on a paid for mooring that only one mooring fee is paid-the charge is generally the same for a single 14 ft beam boat as for a 7 ft beam boat so I always refuse to pay a second charge when breasted. If breasted to a friend or willing stranger I'll always offer to go halves.

 

I well remember a night on the Severn at Upper Lode pub moorings. There was a plastic gin palace tied up so as to take up about half the moorings leaving not enough room for anyone else except maybe a Dawncraft Dandy. No water on the inside of the pontoon. We arrived alongside (well, about 6 inches off) and asked nicely if plastic would move so there was less wasted space. Mrs on board was not able to move (no petrol!) and hubby was away getting some, but she was wiling to be moved. Off crew, rearrange mooring, making about 45 ft of good space. My mate fits nicely into this. I breast 60 ft up to him, mate no 2 breasts 60ft up to me , mate no 3 breasts 70 ft on the outside. Now five boats in the space previously occupied by one. Narrow boaters have supper.

 

Hubby off plastic eventually returns with one gallon of petrol, about dusk and well after locks are shut. Plastic flashes up and roars off. Not sure how far he was going to get but we just went to the pub.

 

N

[WJM]

"I wonder how these people would feel if this campaign became mandatory rather than voluntary?"

 

I would just continue doing exactly what I am doing already, mooring in less popular places where the issue does not arise. I hate breasting up and I am happy to make efforts to avoid it. But I am one of those boaters who does not finish cruising till the day is actually over. The real problem that I think is being addressed here is the smug 2pm moorers sat on the best spots feeling very pleased with themselves despite throwing away half a day's boating to secure their victory! They are the ones that sicken me!

[Bones]

how do you know they are smug?

[WJM]

By the pained expressions on their faces!

[Liam]

The pained expression on their faces could surely not be caused by something else, for example breaking down?

 

With having dealt with an animal who grabbed me around the throat, and threatened me with violence because I refused to move my boat off "his" mooring ring between our boats, I find this all very petty from the impression that I get.

 

All this refusing to share... did you have many toys were you a child or did the bigger boys and girls take them off you?

[Tim]

I don't have any stickers in the windows, but if anybody ever feels the need and 'Life the Universe and Everything' is there, you are most welcome to tie up alogside, I've always got beer on board.

[blackrose]

I would just continue doing exactly what I am doing already, mooring in less popular places where the issue does not arise. I hate breasting up and I am happy to make efforts to avoid it. But I am one of those boaters who does not finish cruising till the day is actually over. The real problem that I think is being addressed here is the smug 2pm moorers sat on the best spots feeling very pleased with themselves despite throwing away half a day's boating to secure their victory! They are the ones that sicken me!

 

Why do they sicken you? They choose to moor up early (so that they don't have to ask anyone to brest up and possibly get refused), while you choose to carry on cruising until dark. Each to his/her own - what's the problem? Not everybody wants to spend every waking hour cruising. You may think they see their mooring as a victory but perhaps that reflects your attitude more than theirs. I think most relaxed people would probably just see it as a mooring, not a victory and since they moored up early they may well have someone bresting up to them come the evening, while you will not. You asked earlier to have your attitude on this matter respected, so why are you being so judgemental towards others?

Edited July 15, 2008 by blackrose

[WJM]

"You asked earlier to have your attitude on this matter respected, so why are you being so judgemental towards others?"

 

 

I was not saying they are wrong, just that I do not agree with them. It is an opinion, part of the stuff of forum and discourse. I am not starting a movement, with stickers or otherwise, to stop the practice. To me it is the boating equivalent of the German sun-bed towel.

 

My perception that they see it as a victory comes directly, they often tell me proudly how they got a great spot by getting in early. This is usually offered to me as helpful advice when I am tying up at dusk, four hours after they arrived. I dont respond by telling them I have enjoyed four hours more cruising than them. Each to their own!

[Liam]

Or, on the other hand, depending on the way you look at it, they have enjoyed 4 more hours of relaxing than you.

 

When we're out for our holidays on the boat, and it's quite warm we normally set off at around 6am, and aim to moor up at around 11am for a few hours. Walk around the shops, have a drink and a bite to eat and then set off later on at about 4pm and cruise until about 7pm.

 

Just because you see us lounging about during the hours of 11 and 4 it doesn't mean we're "putting the towel down" on a mooring we're literally using our two weeks to our full advantage. By stopping twice during the day we get to see two villages, towns or whatever.

 

We much prefer this instead of mooring up in the dark, like yourself, struggling with rope and plank.