Boat Safety Certificate Examinations

[alan_fincher]

OK we passed first time with no issues.

 

Thanks to all for your helpful input.

 

In case it helps others, here are our experiences on the day.

 

Things we had done, where I was strongly led to believe we would have failed otherwise.

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Replaced all flexible LPG hoses with new, (old ones looked OK, but dated 1995).

(Examiner says braided hoses like we used are being phased out, as they do not allow the condition of the inner to be inspected. In future it will all be the orange "rubber" ones - he says).

 

Built fully enclosed plywood battery boxes, with ventilated lid covers.

(Full enclosure probably OTT, but no doubt about the 45 degree tilt requirement, and the examiner clearly very happy with the way it was done).

 

Moved fuel shut of cock from deep inside counter to somewhere where it could be reached by raising just one engine cover.

(Examiner perfectly happy with this, and when I said we had considered an electrically activated valve he said "No - far better keeping it simple".

 

Things clearly meeting with his approval.

----------------------------------------------

 

Added a bubble tester.

(Said it saves him up to 30 minutes on the inspection, and is more likely to show up problems).

 

Some words of warning.

---------------------------

He was not initially happy with brand new fuel hose from new stop valve to engine. This was a properly marked bright yellow offering, with solid 5/16" copper connector pipes at each end. He showed me that if he pulled between copper pipe and flexible, that it was going to separate.

However, (good chap!) he said that if there were some worm drive clips on it before he'd looked at everything else, it would be fine.

I'm not impressed that the chandlery sells what looks like a fully made up hose, but needs jubilee clips added to make it OK. I'm not sure if my expectations are wrong, or the product was crap.

 

He said that the types of battery connector where the cable goes in to a slot at the side, (so it is coming off tangentially to the terminal post) are no longer liked, (even though ours are very thoroughly soldered in). Where I have added an extra battery, I could only get terminals that go on the posts, but then present a single upward facing stud, meaning that attached cables have to have the "flat" connectors on. I thought this "less good" than the original cabling, as there is an extra joint in each. He said however this was the now approved way, and said I should change all connections to this style.

(This is where I start to struggle, as the BSS guide, I'm sure makes no such distinction, and appears to be happy with any properly made soldered connector).

 

At the Morco heater there is maybe 6" of solid gas pipe between the last retaining clip and where it goes into a cut-off valve. Similarly about 9" of gas pipe between the cut-off valve and the Morco is supported just by it's ends. At my leisure he wants me to add two further pipe clips within 3" each side of the stop valve, (which is firmly screwed down).

 

And that's it folks! My Morco instantaneous water heater was deemed OK, as was the LPG fridge.

 

A good result, and my only quibble would be on battery connectors - but then he didn't fail us on this, just asked that it gets done.

 

Alan

[Bullfrog]

So Rallentando just passed her 1st ever test. Examiner was in and out in less than hour and a half.

 

Things I thought odd but just accepted - wouldn't lift the deck-board on our cruiser stern, I had to do it, "it's to do with the insurance sir", similar story with pulling the cooker forward so he could look behind it.

 

Just to show you can be too much of a smart-arse, I remembered reading on here how someone claimed they had their spare gas bottle examined as part of the BSS, so I took ours off, and then got criticised that it left the remaining one unstable and un-supported - so I got it back out of the car and stuck it back in the locker - no longer a problem!

 

Anyway all done and dusted and I'm well pleased.

 

David

[NB Watersnail]

Beware of bubble testers, I fitted one before our last BSS, to keep life simple. The examiner ignored the instructions that stated "test for 30 secs" and kept holding it down until a bubble appeared. I rang the manufacturer who said it was not uncommon for a single bubble to appear after a few minutes. Examiner disconnected bottles, slapped on a notice and walked away leaving me a fail certificate. I eventually got a local CORGI boat guy out, who took one look, said " that's fine" but then had to spend quite a while on the phone convincing my examiner that it was safe. The examiner still had to come back and perform a retest at my cost. Think I'll be going elsewhere in the future.

[Bagpuss]

We passed first time, all my own work.

 

Issues of comment were; although the batteries were under the cruiser deck they didn't have a lid which I was left to fix at my leisure; no marker on the gas locker; a nice brass one was provided for the cost of a pint I've never been asked to buy, despite offering to twice since; the gas pipe supports weren't aesthetically pleasing, however stood up to some intense pushing and pulling and finally the battery connectors, I'd made in an unorthodox manner and he made me pick every single battery up with every singel connection til he was happy.

 

Moral... If i'd left the test point where it was my gas would have been neat as well as gas tight and I wouldn't have got as much stick, serves me right for listening to people who THINK they know what they're talking about.

 

Certainly use the same surveyor next year. I suspect I'll have to tidy the lectrics up before hand though...

[starman]

We're about to go through the test. We're away from the main system on the Middle Level. Anyone recommend from personal experience a Nb tester in that neck of the woods?

[MoominPapa]

We're about to go through the test. We're away from the main system on the Middle Level. Anyone recommend from personal experience a Nb tester in that neck of the woods?

Second hand, rather than personal experience (we've not had the pleasure of a BSS exam yet) but I was recommended the chap at Peterborough Boating Centre at Stanground by another Bill Fen moorer. Looking on the BSS website, that would appear to be Stuart Holmes. I understand that he will happily visit Ramsey.

 

MP.

[Mat B]

Second hand, rather than personal experience (we've not had the pleasure of a BSS exam yet) but I was recommended the chap at Peterborough Boating Centre at Stanground by another Bill Fen moorer. Looking on the BSS website, that would appear to be Stuart Holmes. I understand that he will happily visit Ramsey.

 

MP.

 

I used Stuart last year, very fair, happy to recommend him.

 

Mat - somewhat higher than usual on the Nene.

[Radiomariner]

We're about to go through the test. We're away from the main system on the Middle Level. Anyone recommend from personal experience a Nb tester in that neck of the woods?

I am prepared to travel. However you may find my travelling cost prohibitive. Have a look at my website, Alan's Boat Safety Site at

http://www.Boat-safetyexaminer.webeden.co.uk Pricing page includes travelling cost. I use the RAC routefinder on shortest route setting to calculate travel distances. My starting point would be Post code MK43 0QN

 

Alan

[wonderdust]

I used Stuart last year, very fair, happy to recommend him.

 

Mat - somewhat higher than usual on the Nene.

 

 

same here, came to March, very pleased!

Edited February 20, 2009 by wonderdust

[Moley]

Talpidae failed BSS today

 

There are a few minor niggles which I can fix myself, namely a couple of electrical cables (horn cable needs to be secured, bilge pump cable needs re-routing where it can't be trodden on), new cooker needs to be secured so it can't topple forward, one battery terminal was loose.

 

However, gas lockers have a couple of previous pipe holes which need patches welding over, fuel lines are probably quite safe but don't carry the numbers he required and I have a gas leak somewhere. After I had nipped up a couple of joints which seemed to be suspect his manometer still dropped in the 5 minutes when it's not supposed to, so something needs attention before he can issue a certificate.

 

However, this does not account for my flashing vision and approaching migraine, I will post more when I know more and when my vision has returned sufficiently for me to read up on galvanic isolation and investigate re-plating costs!!!

[Bullfrog]

his manometer still dropped in the 5 minutes when it's not supposed to, so something needs attention before he can issue a certificate.

 

Sorry to hear your news Adrian, but you should know our man wanted 15 mins on the manometer which would have made your situation even more debatable!

 

regards

 

David

[jake_crew]

I work in the oil and gas industry. For low level leaks, we use a very strong soap solution to look for bubbles. Mind you, we're talking 5000psi, so you can usually HEAR the leak.

 

The trouble with domestic / boat gas systems is that the pressure is SO low, its very difficult to see a real leak.

 

Temperature changes over time will cause the pressure in a sealed system to change so, what looks like a leak could be just the gas cooling. This is especially a problem with butane which is only just above its boiling point at this time of year.

 

All I can suggest is nipping up all compression joints. If necessary, open the joints and use an approved sealing goo and re-assemble.

Edited February 20, 2009 by jake_crew

[Lady Muck]

I just edited the post with Bobs details in: firstly, I don't know if he'd like his full address posted up here, perhaps we should ask him first. Secondly, post an email address on a bulletin board and the spam bots will find it and he will drown in a sea of spam, - I've edited it, just replace the 'at' with @

 

Thanks

 

LM

[sueb]

Beware of bubble testers, I fitted one before our last BSS, to keep life simple. The examiner ignored the instructions that stated "test for 30 secs" and kept holding it down until a bubble appeared. I rang the manufacturer who said it was not uncommon for a single bubble to appear after a few minutes. Examiner disconnected bottles, slapped on a notice and walked away leaving me a fail certificate. I eventually got a local CORGI boat guy out, who took one look, said " that's fine" but then had to spend quite a while on the phone convincing my examiner that it was safe. The examiner still had to come back and perform a retest at my cost. Think I'll be going elsewhere in the future.

Please let Rob McLean at the Bss office know, they are hot on things like this. I see no reason why you should pay for a badly trained examiner.

Sue

[Byeckerslike]

I am totally satisfied with the BSC examiner that checked our NB, all was going fine, until he checked out the gas system, he found that the system had a leak. To his credit, he was very pro-active, and spent over an hour trying to trace the leak. It soon became evident that the gas hob was the source (in fact, the leak was from all four gas control valves), he told me that the control valves use grease to create the seal between the knob spindle and valve housings, and over time, the grease dries out and gas starts to escape through the gaps in the sealant grease.

 

He even lent me his gas sniffer and electronic pressure meter over the Christmas Holiday, so that I was able to check everything else out on the gas supply line and rectify as needed. In the end, I bought a new Stoves Hob, fitted that, checked out the system, and satisfied that all was ok, invited him to re-examine the boat.

 

The retest went fine, all was over within 10 minutes. I'd recommend this tester to anyone, who is looking for an examiner in the south east midlands area. If you are at all interested, please PM me.

 

Rob

[alan_fincher]

All I can suggest is nipping up all compression joints. If necessary, open the joints and use an approved sealing goo and re-assemble.

I'm not sure there is an "approved sealing goo", as sites like the Calor Marine one says that, (for compression fittings at least), there should be nothing in the joint other than the olive, and (if I remember rightly), the use of a sealant like Gas Tite can lead to a duff joint, (my words!).

[Keeping Up]

... the use of a sealant like Gas Tite can lead to a duff joint, (my words!).

You can get a joint like one of mine which I recently tracked down as leaking slightly, where the boatyard had used Calortite about 10 years ago, and the nut was securely glued to the joint so that it couldn't be turned but the pipe was actually a loose fit inside it.

[alan_fincher]

Just found the reference.....

 

Jointing compounds should be only applied to tapered male threads

Jointing compounds can prevent the olive engaging properly with the coupling body at the mating surface. P.T.F.E. One wrap tape made to BS 4375 or LPG jointed compounds made to BS6956 should be used should be used only on the tapered male thread ends.

 

See here......

 

http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/installat...work_joints.htm

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Please let Rob McLean at the Bss office know, they are hot on things like this. I see no reason why you should pay for a badly trained examiner.

Sue

 

I will raise this straightaway with my colleague Phil Rickett, the quality and technical manager of the BSS. The key points seem to be these; was the examiner following our instructions properly, or do we need to take account of an additional factor?

 

Usually the process is that Phil will contact the manufacturer seeking the full information and then review what happened in that context.

 

I would like Watersnail to contact me in confidence with some more details, preferably not through the PM system on here as my mailbox is full and I don't have time to review the contents before emptying it. It is much better to contact the Scheme through our publicised email address bss.enquiries at the same string as our website boatsafetyscheme then co and then uk. Mark the email for my attention with bubble test in the subject line.

 

As we recommend the use of bubble testers, having the full circumstances of what happened would be extremely useful and of interest to us.

 

Kind regards

Rob@BSS Office

[FORTUNATA]

If he's found even a minor gas leak then that's good it's been detected. Gas in the bilges can be a danger. I'm told examiners have become mega strict on gas systems to the point many folks are installing diesel heating systems instead.

 

 

Talpidae failed BSS today

 

There are a few minor niggles which I can fix myself, namely a couple of electrical cables (horn cable needs to be secured, bilge pump cable needs re-routing where it can't be trodden on), new cooker needs to be secured so it can't topple forward, one battery terminal was loose.

 

However, gas lockers have a couple of previous pipe holes which need patches welding over, fuel lines are probably quite safe but don't carry the numbers he required and I have a gas leak somewhere. After I had nipped up a couple of joints which seemed to be suspect his manometer still dropped in the 5 minutes when it's not supposed to, so something needs attention before he can issue a certificate.

 

However, this does not account for my flashing vision and approaching migraine, I will post more when I know more and when my vision has returned sufficiently for me to read up on galvanic isolation and investigate re-plating costs!!!

[David Schweizer]

I know that many people rely upon bubble testers these days, but I have said it numerous times before, and will say it again. The most reliable way to test for gas soundness is a manometer in the hands of someone who knows how to read it, which includes the ability to assess ambient temperature fluctuations.

Edited February 26, 2009 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

I know that many people rely upon bubble testers these days, but I have said it numerous times before, and will say it again. The most reliable way to test for gas soundness is a manometer in the hands of someone who knows how to read it, which includes the ability to assess ambient temperature fluctuations.

Although the BSS documentation specifies a strong preference for Bubble Testers.

 

And some BSS examiners will reduce their test fee by around £"0 if one is fitted.

 

I know your reservations, David, but to me the advantage is that I can literally test for leaks each and every time I use the boat, rather than once in a blue moon.

 

If Moley had had a Bubble Tester, he would have known he had a problem before he put the boat up for test.

[Bones]

I know that many people rely upon bubble testers these days, but I have said it numerous times before, and will say it again. The most reliable way to test for gas soundness is a manometer in the hands of someone who knows how to read it, which includes the ability to assess ambient temperature fluctuations.

 

Probably, but at least the bubble tester allows the layman just to 'check' it periodically to make sure things are OK. I suppose getting the system routinely tested with a mano never hurt anyone.

[Moley]

If Moley had had a Bubble Tester, he would have known he had a problem before he put the boat up for test.

Andy Downing, who has only recently taken over the Stourbridge dry dock, is a Corgi bod and seems to be well known around the local boating community as ‘Andy The Gas’.

 

Moley has only this morning asked ‘Andy The Gas’ about ripping out the old plumbing from regulator to my first just-inside-the-door gas tap (it's one of the existing joints between bottle and cabin which I believe to be suspect, and not one of mine) and re-gassing together with installing a bubble tester. He advised that as we have a reasonable sized new gas cooker onboard it wouldn't make much sense to restrict the flow right from its source, and that until they produce half-inch bubble testers they can be more trouble than they are worth.

[alan_fincher]

He advised that as we have a reasonable sized new gas cooker onboard it wouldn't make much sense to restrict the flow right from its source, and that until they produce half-inch bubble testers they can be more trouble than they are worth.

Well 'Andy the Gas' is the professional, and I the bumbling amateur, but I disagree......

 

The Bubble tester would appear to be good flow gas flows equivalent to 12KW.

 

It's highly likely that a cooker, even if you used everything flat out at once, (and who does?), would be anything like that rating.

 

I've measured our pressure, with a manometer, downstream of the hob, oven and grill, with everything running flat out, at it stays rock steady at 14.8" WG.

 

And we have a section plumbed in 3/8" pipe in the gas locker, only going up to 1/2" to go through the boat to the cooker, and ultimately the test point.

 

So, I don't think he's right.

 

Anyway now I have the added facility to test the gas regularly, I'd not give it up without a fight.

 

Alan

 

BTW, as an aside, the (presumably) owner of Limekiln Chandlers gave us a heap of bad advice about bubble testers, basically saying that the gas has to pass though the fluid all the time, and telling us that it causes problems with restricted flow. Total bo***ks, of course! He also told us LPG plumbing should all be done in metric, whereas it actually seems to be far easier to get compliant fittings if it's all imperial. It's not surprising people get confused!