Petrol generators

[Teadaemon]

Safety experts amongst you - can/should petrol cans be safely stored in the same steel self-draining locker as the gas ? What does the BSS say ? I'm at work so don't have my copy to hand.

 

As far as I'm aware, according to the BSS nothing should be stored in a gas locker apart from gas bottles. The requirements for storing petrol on board are similar to the requirements for gas, so if you want to store both on the same boat you need to have two lockers with appropriate seals and ventilation.

[Brummage]

Bottlled gas is potentially dangerous, as are petrol gennies, even diesel engines under some circumstances (ever seen one run away and disintegrate?).

240 Volts can be a dangerous thing to have on boats. Boiling water; that is bloody dangerous on a boat that rocks. Then there is the water surrounding us, bloody hell I don't swim well, could drown. Oh and those locks are an accident waiting to happen, and don't tell me they have been around for many years, i have just done a risk assesment should my family get injured at one. All these dangers, after 40 years on the cut I am planning on quitting and taking up origami. But then there are paper cuts to consider, I read on an Origami forum that they are quite nasty and can lead to infection. Stamp collecting? Too easy to pass on diseases I have heard. Gardening? Tetanus to consider.

 

Only one thing left:

 

 

Spot on Dylan. It's all a matter of keeping things in perspective. There is danger lurking around every corner. All we can do is be careful. Do things properly and with safety in mind and the chances of a disaster are minimized.

 

If you are really that worried about leaking gas, install a gas detector.

[elessina]

I believe that the only feasible way to be gas free requires a hefty generator

Victrons Generator test indicate that you do not need a large generator, and point to the Fischer Panda 4000i (a 4Kw unit) being able to run electric cookers etc (up to 13Kw loads) through the Victron. See the Victron Generator Test on another thread for details and link to report. The generator will need to run for long periods (6 to 9 hrs per day), but if not live aboard this would not be a problem as I believe the unit is designed for 5,000hr use before major overhaul.

 

I do not like gas on board, but still feel it is the best option for cooking.

 

Ian

[elessina]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed the increasing popularity of suitcase style generators, but it makes me a bit uneasy.

Yes, but the only real alternatve is a £5K+ generator.

We have tried the £500 petrol generator, and the £2K Electrolux travel power, now looking at a £5K+ generator.

Ian

[Daftmare]

I always get laughed at by my house dwelling friends when I duck if they don't do this.

 

 

We have one of those hand held "clicky" things which produces a spark in order to light the gas on our boat. So its difficult to get a "flame first" (or am I being thick....if so, just send me the trophy)

[Chertsey]

I always get laughed at by my house dwelling friends when I duck if they don't do this.

We have one of those hand held "clicky" things which produces a spark in order to light the gas on our boat. So its difficult to get a "flame first" (or am I being thick....if so, just send me the trophy)

 

Hold it in place and keep clicking it before turning the gas on? Still gave me the heebeejeebees though so I got rid of it and got one with a flame. Now we have to keep a canister of lighter gas to refill that, which makes me nervous too... but still alive so far...

Tho to be fair the worst that's going to happen when your actually lighting it is a bit of a woomph (grill is worse - definitely worth having a flame lighter for that). You' have to try really hard to blow a boat (as opposed to a house) up with the gas stove because of the flame failure devices. Leaks at the cylinder, in the locker, should drain over the side so the only real worry is presumably the pipework between the two?

 

Somehow people seem a bit more cavalier with petrol than with gas, which is why perhaps it's more worrying?

[Daftmare]

Hold it in place and keep clicking it before turning the gas on? Still gave me the heebeejeebees though so I got rid of it and got one with a flame. Now we have to keep a canister of lighter gas to refill that, which makes me nervous too... but still alive so far...

 

Thanks - maybe I will go back to using a box of matches!

[Tusses]

Hold it in place and keep clicking it before turning the gas on? Still gave me the heebeejeebees though so I got rid of it and got one with a flame. Now we have to keep a canister of lighter gas to refill that, which makes me nervous too... but still alive so far...

 

Thanks - maybe I will go back to using a box of matches!

 

 

make sure they are safety matches - as the engine vibration may cause non safety matches in a box to light !

[Rob@BSSOffice]

I've read this whole thread, and am now a little worried about even stepping aboard my boat !! Never gave the gas a single thought until now. Just assumed that if we had a Boat Safety Cert, we were OK...

 

Is there something we should be checking re the gas on a regular basis?

 

You could run through some of the checks as detailed here gas check clicky and here appliance check clicky from time to time, perhaps based on a regularity appropriate for your boat.

 

'Worry' is probably not quite the right emotion, think of it more like, if it was a car, checking the tyres for even wear and pressure, giving the windscreen wipers and seat belts a once over and checking that the rear brake and main lights are still working. I'd describe it as giving yourself some reassurance.

 

Regards

Rob

Edited March 12, 2008 by Rob@BSSOffice

[gazza]

christ! i never realised just how close i have come to having a major accident with petrol and gas.........

 

its amazing to think my boat has lasted since it was built in 1968, i didnt know petrol was akin to weapons grade plutonium......

 

as for gas, i have managed to use a gas hob successfully at home and afloat perhaps it would be an idea to concentrate on educating people with a lack of common sense rather than writing off petrol and lpg. most people manage to get through life without having to be wrapped in cotton wool or having their bums wiped for them. those that cant are listed on this intresting website http://www.darwinawards.com/ happy reading!

Edited March 12, 2008 by gazza

[blackrose]

As far as I'm aware, according to the BSS nothing should be stored in a gas locker apart from gas bottles. The requirements for storing petrol on board are similar to the requirements for gas, so if you want to store both on the same boat you need to have two lockers with appropriate seals and ventilation.

Last time this came up on the forum the same BSS regs were quoted, but then nobody could come up with a practical reason why petrol & gas couldn't be stored in the same locker...

 

Any takers? Rob (Mr BSS)?

[magnetman]

Too much aggrevation getting the petrol can out whenever the genny needs fueling.

[Dylan]

My Rayburn was no bigger than a gas cooker and fridge, side by side, not too big for a 72' boat. I used a meths cooker in summer (or bbq) and the meths was stored, safely, with my petrol (in the redundant gas locker)Why do I need a generator, instead of gas? My laptop, tv, and lights weren't gas-powered.

?????????? You don't. I haven't the slightest idea what you mean Carl. I have no problem with gas, petrol, meths, rocket fuel or whatever you care to use. Just use it properly I say.

Victrons Generator test indicate that you do not need a large generator, and point to the Fischer Panda 4000i (a 4Kw unit) being able to run electric cookers etc (up to 13Kw loads) through the Victron. See the Victron Generator Test on another thread for details and link to report. The generator will need to run for long periods (6 to 9 hrs per day), but if not live aboard this would not be a problem as I believe the unit is designed for 5,000hr use before major overhaul.I do not like gas on board, but still feel it is the best option for cooking.Ian

One man's large generator is another man's small generator.

[Teadaemon]

Last time this came up on the forum the same BSS regs were quoted, but then nobody could come up with a practical reason why petrol & gas couldn't be stored in the same locker...

 

My understanding of the matter is that storing other stuff in the gas locker increases the risk of something damaging the cylinder or associated pipework, and might also restrict quick access to the gas cylinders in the event that a leak in the system is detected and they need to be shut off. Personally I wouldn't be too worried about being on a boat with a can of petrol secured in the gas locker next to the gas cylinders, and if I wanted to carry petrol and gas on a boat that didn't need a BSS certificate it's probably what I'd do, if there were space in the gas locker to do it safely.

[Timleech]

My understanding of the matter is that storing other stuff in the gas locker increases the risk of something damaging the cylinder or associated pipework, and might also restrict quick access to the gas cylinders in the event that a leak in the system is detected and they need to be shut off. Personally I wouldn't be too worried about being on a boat with a can of petrol secured in the gas locker next to the gas cylinders, and if I wanted to carry petrol and gas on a boat that didn't need a BSS certificate it's probably what I'd do, if there were space in the gas locker to do it safely.

 

If you don't have two lockers, I reckon the gas locker to be the (next) safest place to store petrol, whatever the detail of the regs might say.

Certainly not to be kept 'inboard'.

 

Tim

[saltysplash]

"Millions of houses in this country have gas installed, and don't even have the benefit of an inspection every four years, yet we are not being blown up in our beds on a regular basis"

Houses are not built in a watertight steel bowl - escaped gas spills out the doors and vents at ground level

 

 

there are plenty of examples of houses leaving a gap in the terrace after a gas explosion......and a block of flats i seem to recall in my dusty brain....was it clapham or wimbledon?

 

Treat everything with the respect it deserves and non of us will go far wrong.

 

My dad used to tell me a story about my Nan. Back in the 40's she used to turn on the gas cooker, then pick up the box of matches, open it, take out a match, try and strike it, eventually get one to lite and offer it to the gas.......result...no eye brows.

[Keeping Up]

I remember we used to have catalytic gas lighter wands. You turned the gas on first, then waved the wand in front of it; eventually the flow of gas made the element glow red-hot and ignite the gas. Usually a good bang when it did.

[Teadaemon]

If you don't have two lockers, I reckon the gas locker to be the (next) safest place to store petrol, whatever the detail of the regs might say.

Certainly not to be kept 'inboard'.

 

I'd agree with you, though I can also see why the BSS is worded in the way that it is with regard to gas lockers being used for gas and nothing else.

 

On seagoing yachts undertaking long journeys, it's not that unusual to see extra supplies of fuel (diesel or petrol) carried in jerrycans on deck (often tied to the lifelines, a practice with it's own safety issues, though not fire related), which can also be a fairly* safe way to do it (though probably not suitable for the inland waterways, as we've got enough of a problem with arson without making large quantities of accelerant available to any toerag that happens to wander past on the towpath).

 

 

 

* Although even then I've seen pictures of one yacht that blew up after petrol vapours from jerrycans on deck found their way below through the boot around a keel-stepped mast.

[laural]

What is considered a good price to pay for a diesel generator.

We have seen electric start ones on Ebay for around £500 new.

Or would a gas converted Honda be a better bet economics wise?

[steelaway]

What is considered a good price to pay for a diesel generator.

We have seen electric start ones on Ebay for around £500 new.

Or would a gas converted Honda be a better bet economics wise?

 

Hi There

 

If you are having a new boat, specify it on the engine. No fuss no bother no noise

 

Alex

[laural]

Hi There

 

If you are having a new boat, specify it on the engine. No fuss no bother no noise

 

Alex

Thanks for the reply.

What do you mean specify it on the engine?

[magnetman]

I guess engine mounted generator or alternator-inverter setup. I don't get the 'no noise' bit though.

[steelaway]

I guess engine mounted generator or alternator-inverter setup. I don't get the 'no noise' bit though.

 

Hopefully the engine will have an hospital silencer.

Have you heard these cheap 'quite' diesel gennys on the bank side.

 

Alex

[cazz]

Our examiners do find people storing these things in innocence or ignorance in the cabin/engine spaces. So far, we have been moderately lucky - your tale of crisp fried boater, aside.

 

However, generators are causing CO problems of the serious and final kind for their owners who do not respect the creeping fumes of CO from the exhaust. There is a very good description of the problem on the MAIB website reporting on the death of a new hand on a small fishing vessel (2006 from memory).

 

Refuel ashore for certain, store wh ere petrol fumes will spill/drain over the side and use where and when the exhaust fumes will not enter the boat.

 

How many times have we seen them running half in and half out of the rear doors?

 

Regards

Rob@BSSOffice

[/quote

Hi bob

Just a quickie,I have a honda generator converted to run on gas.

I bought this to satisfy safety regs on narrowboats,i am now wondering if it is still safe to run this whilst it is on the boat due to co2 emmissions.

I have a cruiser style narrowboat so the genny is in open air on the back.

Would this be acceptable in your opinion or not.

Cazz

[laural]

Surely a generator cannot be any noisier than running the engine?

The petrol Honda does sound very quiet though must admit.