French lock keepers

[Stilllearning]

I'm in the process of reading this:

And came across this chaper on lock jeeping before the last world war: interesting to know that it was almost always the wives who were the lock keepers, while the husbands were the lengthsmen .

[magpie patrick]

Now found it on ABE books - do I need any more books I ask myself

 

Certainly it had never occurred to me that the division of labour was formal, I'd assumed that the wives working the locks whilst the husband did "other things" was just how families organised things, in much the same way as it was always the woman steering the butty on our working pairs.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, magpie patrick said:

Now found it on ABE books - do I need any more books I ask myself

 

As I dont speak French I am let off the hook 

[Tam & Di]

That's very interesting. Things have obvious changed in more recent times, particularly with the advent of powered locks and boatman-operated ones. I'll ask Georges who is the keeper on the Seille lock where the river joins the Saône at La Truchère.

 

16 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

As I dont speak French I am let off the hook 

Although I can translate all the individual words, 'lumière' has several nuances and I don't understand the exact meaning of the phrase La Boîte à Lumière.

[Ray T]

3 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Now found it on ABE books - do I need any more books I ask myself

 

Certainly it had never occurred to me that the division of labour was formal, I'd assumed that the wives working the locks whilst the husband did "other things" was just how families organised things, in much the same way as it was always the woman steering the butty on our working pairs.

As a matter of interest Mike H’s  dad was very much a “horse boat man.” Whilst he would steer the motor he preferred steering the butty, leaving it to the family to look after the motor. Perhaps he was the exception?

 

Edited March 6 by Ray T

[Stilllearning]

1 hour ago, Tam & Di said:

That's very interesting. Things have obvious changed in more recent times, particularly with the advent of powered locks and boatman-operated ones. I'll ask Georges who is the keeper on the Seille lock where the river joins the Saône at La Truchère.

 

Although I can translate all the individual words, 'lumière' has several nuances and I don't understand the exact meaning of the phrase La Boîte à Lumière.

The author has made a huge collection of histories of dozens of lost or disappearing skills and trades.

Here is the back cover of the book:

 

Yes, the language is quite difficult, I read it with a big old Larousse alongside me.

I suspect I'd translate the title as The Light Box, in the sense of an old camera that captures an image?

ETA

further research suggests as a translation a 'softbox' which a contraption used in photography.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softbox

Edited March 6 by Stilllearning

[Tam & Di]

44 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

I suspect I'd translate the title as The Light Box, in the sense of an old camera that captures an image?

ETA

further research suggests as a translation a 'softbox' which a contraption used in photography.

That seems very likely - that's what I meant about the nuances of meaning of 'lumière'. It can of course have the same meaning as the similar English word 'luminary' - a leading light in some particular branch of knowledge.

[Stilllearning]

5 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

That seems very likely - that's what I meant about the nuances of meaning of 'lumière'. It can of course have the same meaning as the similar English word 'luminary' - a leading light in some particular branch of knowledge.

Yes.

If you do get a copy of the book, or his others, be warned that he delights in using interesting and unusual (to me at least) vocabulary. 

[Hudds Lad]

I'd have said "light box" as well, but from my trade it was a glass-topped table with diffused light underneath on which you would lay transparencies, negatives or film you were working on to see them better. The dawn of desktop publishing  

[Stilllearning]

5 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

I'd have said "light box" as well, but from my trade it was a glass-topped table with diffused light underneath on which you would lay transparencies, negatives or film you were working on to see them better. The dawn of desktop publishing  

It just goes to show that there is seldom, if ever, a direct and perfect translation for a word or phrase. 

My wife and I are in the process of translating some artists descriptions of their works into English, and it's an effing nightmare!

[Tam & Di]

It doubtlessly has the sense of throwing a light on some topic - enlightening the reader. I'll trying throwing the phrase into conversation at some convenient opportunity and seeing where it takes me  😁

1 minute ago, Stilllearning said:

 and it's an effing nightmare!

I'd be interested in your translation of that   😂

Edited March 6 by Tam & Di

[Stilllearning]

4 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

It doubtlessly has the sense of throwing a light on some topic - enlightening the reader. I'll trying throwing the phrase into conversation at some convenient opportunity and seeing where it takes me  😁

I'd be interested in your translation of that   😂

Un sacré cauchemar. Perhaps.

[1st ade]

7 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

I suspect I'd translate the title as The Light Box, in the sense of an old camera that captures an image?

Or as we might say "Magic Lantern" which projects an image?

[Stilllearning]

44 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

Or as we might say "Magic Lantern" which projects an image?

I'm going to ask a french friend tomorrow.

[1st ade]

16 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

I'd have said "light box" as well, but from my trade it was a glass-topped table with diffused light underneath on which you would lay transparencies, negatives or film you were working on to see them better. The dawn of desktop publishing  

@magpie patrick and I are trawling through approx 50,000 or so of Dad's slides. We've had the majority scanned but there are times when you could use 8-10 physical slides in front of you.

 

I searched for ages for a "light box" (which is what Dad used to call it) and that term now seems to mean a literal box, with even illumination from every side and a small hole through which a camera (phone) can be aimed. Jewellery companies (and others with small, very shiny, components) use them so they get a good picture without reflecting the light source.

 

Once I searched for Light Table I found a whole range - The one I bought is not much bigger than a sheet of A4 paper (in any dimension), runs off USB-C and, er, simply does the job...

[Derek R.]

Les boîte lumière might be consiered to be looking at the past through a camera.

Les gagne misere translates to 'the misery wins', and in those titles that are shown with that description, it depicts many of the menial tasks that were once undertaken and commonplace, amongst poorer folk.

 

Windows on the past.

[Stilllearning]

1 hour ago, Derek R. said:

Les boîte lumière might be consiered to be looking at the past through a camera.

Les gagne misere translates to 'the misery wins', and in those titles that are shown with that description, it depicts many of the menial tasks that were once undertaken and commonplace, amongst poorer folk.

 

Windows on the past.

I would tend to agree with your thoughts. As usual, any attempt at a literal translation is bound to be a failure, all one can do is hope to understand the irigobal concept, and then find a similar concept in one's own language.

[Stilllearning]

10 hours ago, Derek R. said:

Les boîte lumière might be consiered to be looking at the past through a camera.

Les gagne misere translates to 'the misery wins', and in those titles that are shown with that description, it depicts many of the menial tasks that were once undertaken and commonplace, amongst poorer folk.

 

Windows on the past.

Having had a chat this afternoon with a well educated and well travelled French neighbour, she said that 'boîte à lumière' could easily mean 'a light on the past'. 'Les gagne-misère' is an interesting word, in that it is an invariable compound noun, so despite being used here in a plural sense, it remains visually singular.

It means a job/life that only earns misery. Another example is 'gagne-petit', a job/life that only earns very little.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

On 06/03/2025 at 11:46, magpie patrick said:

Now found it on ABE books - do I need any more books I ask myself

 

Certainly it had never occurred to me that the division of labour was formal, I'd assumed that the wives working the locks whilst the husband did "other things" was just how families organised things, in much the same way as it was always the woman steering the butty on our working pairs.

Suspect the divisions worked better with keeping an eye and ear on babies and small children for both lock keeping in France and butty steering in the UK. No noise from an engine in a butty to mask sound, plus no fast moving, or hot engine parts for small inquisitive fingers to investigate. Lock keeping is intermittent, leaving gaps for domestic tasks in the lock house. All traditionally women's jobs, so not a break with social expectations of the time.