Which heating solution to go for?

[Peanut]

13 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

 

Are you sure they weren't fourmica windows?

Cast Iron, not a toy one.

[blackrose]

22 hours ago, IanD said:

 

 

I leave the boat unattended all winter and the heating comes on whenever the internal temperature drops below 4.5C, which only happens in really cold weather -- it comes on for about 20 minutes at a time, as many times per day as needed -- 

 

Is that good for the heater? I removed a Froststat from my Webasto because I didn't want it switching itself on and off intermittently. Most diesel heaters don't like to be run for very short periods but I don't know about yours and perhaps it's ok being run like that?

On 11/01/2025 at 09:22, nicknorman said:

For a liveaboard I think you want to consider having 2 of as much as possible, since breakdowns always occur at the worst possible time and in the worst possible location! Your proposed heating will fail and you will freeze if:

 

boiler breaks down

run out of diesel

inverter fails

batteries go flat

battery charging problem (you do have engine or solar, but solar in mid winter does very little so we are talking about an engine or alternator issue)

 

Anyway, there are quite a lot of single point failures. Without heating, a boat cools down much faster than a house. If it were me I would also want a solid fuel stove which, assuming you have some coal, is highly unlikely to break down. Yes they are a bit messy but also they make for a cosy focal point in winter. You don’t have to always use it of course.

 

Yes, the first thing I wondered when I read the OP's post was surely they're not planning on only having a diesel heater? 

 

Most liveaboards I know (including myself) who have diesel heaters use them as their secondary/auxiliary form of heating, with a solid fuel stove as the primary.

[cuthound]

On 11/01/2025 at 09:58, Rod Stewart said:

It always amazes me that people don't keep even the most basic spares for when things go wrong. Spare glass/alternative is a must on all boats, as is a spare domestic water pump. Spare flue pipe and spare flue collar might be pushing it.

 

At least two members of this forum have spare boats.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, magnetman said:

Mica has always been a good material for the viewing windows on enclosed appliances. 

 

 

 

My oil drip stove has a mica window. It cracked just for the BSS inspection, so I cut a replacement from some mica I got on eBay. The biggest problem was undoing a couple of the bolts that held it. I used stainless steel replacements, with brass domed nuts and liberally slathered Copperslip grease onto the threads before final assembly, so hopefully prevent a recurrence should the mica break again.

Edited January 12 by cuthound
To add spaces between merged posts

[IanD]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Is that good for the heater? I removed a Froststat from my Webasto because I didn't want it switching itself on and off intermittently. Most diesel heaters don't like to be run for very short periods but I don't know about yours and perhaps it's ok being run like that?

 

Yes, the first thing I wondered when I read the OP's post was surely they're not planning on only having a diesel heater? 

 

Most liveaboards I know (including myself) who have diesel heaters use them as their secondary/auxiliary form of heating, with a solid fuel stove as the primary.

The Bubble is literally designed to work like that, just like domestic oil-fired CH boilers are.

 

If you want to have a stove as a second/backup heating source then that's obviously fine, so long as you're happy to deal with the fuel/mess and have somewhere to put it.

 

I took the view that most homeowners with gas/oil CH-- including me -- don't have a stove or open fires and rely on the CH/radiators and get along just fine, so I'd do the same on the boat... 🙂

[Russ T]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

The Bubble is literally designed to work like that, just like domestic oil-fired CH boilers are.

 

If you want to have a stove as a second/backup heating source then that's obviously fine, so long as you're happy to deal with the fuel/mess and have somewhere to put it.

 

I took the view that most homeowners with gas/oil CH-- including me -- don't have a stove or open fires and rely on the CH/radiators and get along just fine, so I'd do the same on the boat... 🙂

 

And that is a compelling argument. However, in the advent of a central heating failure in a domestic property, there is the ability to heat the property via electric means, and also the availabilty of a tradesperson to fix it. Given the likelyhood that less domestic tradesman are likely to want to involve themselves in the complexity of boat systems, for a liveaboard boater, it is, as they say, a no brainer to rely upon the tried and tested methods. Well, until they all get banned, that is.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Rod Stewart said:

 

And that is a compelling argument. However, in the advent of a central heating failure in a domestic property, there is the ability to heat the property via electric means, and also the availabilty of a tradesperson to fix it. Given the likelyhood that less domestic tradesman are likely to want to involve themselves in the complexity of boat systems, for a liveaboard boater, it is, as they say, a no brainer to rely upon the tried and tested methods. Well, until they all get banned, that is.

Of course exactly the same argument about tradesmen applies to a boat where the heating is the same as domestic oil CH, and can be fixed by anyone who can do this... 🙂

 

And if you're in a marina, you've got power to run electric heaters just like a house -- or in an emergency away from home, rub the generator.

 

All perfectly feasible and doesn't need a stove. But if you want a stove, have one... 🙂

 

P.S. I probably wouldn't do this using a Webasto/Eberspacher... 😉

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

 

And that is a compelling argument. However, in the advent of a central heating failure in a domestic property, there is the ability to heat the property via electric means, and also the availabilty of a tradesperson to fix it. Given the likelyhood that less domestic tradesman are likely to want to involve themselves in the complexity of boat systems, for a liveaboard boater, it is, as they say, a no brainer to rely upon the tried and tested methods. Well, until they all get banned, that is.

 

The main problem fixing any unusual gas or oil boiler (in a boat or not) is few suppliers keep spare parts in stock on the shelf so you are driven to buy on the internet, and sorting out who actually had the part they are advertising and who is just fishing for orders then seeing if that can get the bit once the order comes in, can be infuriating. Unless the manu sells part direct to the trade, which is unusual.

 

 

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The main problem fixing any unusual gas or oil boiler (in a boat or not) is few suppliers keep spare parts in stock on the shelf so you are driven to buy on the internet, and sorting out who actually had the part they are advertising and who is just fishing for orders then seeing if that can get the bit once the order comes in, can be infuriating. Unless the manu sells part direct to the trade, which is unusual.

 

As was pointed out earlier, the Bubble uses standard components common in domestic oil CH boilers -- which is one good reason to use it rather than something like the Hurricane which uses custom foreign-sourced (Canadian?) bits.

 

And before you ask, the other parts of the system (valves, pump, controller) are also standard domestic stuff -- so anyone who can fix a domestic oil CH system can fix mine... 😉

Edited January 12 by IanD

[David Mack]

38 minutes ago, IanD said:

I took the view that most homeowners with gas/oil CH-- including me -- don't have a stove or open fires and rely on the CH/radiators and get along just fine, so I'd do the same on the boat... 🙂

When our oil-fired CH boiler at home decided to stop working during the sub-zero temperatures earlier this week, I was very glad that we have a multi-fuel stove in the living room fireplace and a stack of Excel in the cellar!

Don't know quite what was up with it - I took the burner out, cleaned soot off, tinkered a bit but it refused to stay alight for more than about 30 seconds, so I reassembled it while going to look online for spare parts. Then on the off-chance tried firing it up a couple of hours later, and it has run flawlessly since! (Touches wood furiously).

Edited January 12 by David Mack

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, David Mack said:

When our oil-fired CH boiler at home decided to stop working during the sub-zero temperatures earlier this week, I was very glad that we have a multi-fuel stove in the living room fireplace and a stack of Excel in the cellar!

Don't know quite what was up with it - I took the burner out, cleaned soot off, tinkered a bit but it refused to stay alight for more than about 30 seconds, so I reassembled it while going to look online for spare parts. Then on the off-chance tried firing it up a couple of hours later, and it has run flawlessly since! (Touches wood furiously).

I didn't say it was a bad idea not to have solid fuel backup, just that millions of houses in the UK manage just fine without one. We used to have a Rayburn solid-fuel stove in the living room, and didn't use it once in more than 20 years. Given that, I didn't think it was worth using up space I didn't have on the boat for something that would probably never be used. (Touches wood furiously). 🙂 

Edited January 12 by IanD

[Russ T]

There we have it. I think we all agree that a solid fuel stove makes an excellent choice as a primary heat source, or a worthy backup should the fancy system with numerous moving parts fail to work. Particularly if those parts are hard to come by at inclement times or hard to fit due to lack of capable trades people willing to travel to unlikely locations. Of course, if one is not a full time liveaboard, there is always the option to decamp to ones home whilst firing up the central heating enroute with ones telephone.

[magnetman]

4 hours ago, IanD said:

...or in an emergency away from home, rub the generator.

All perfectly feasible and doesn't need a stove.

 

Yes it is often a good move to rub the generator to warm it up on cold evenings. 

 

 

[Peanut]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

Yes it is often a good move to rub the generator to warm it up on cold evenings. 

 

It is to get the Genie out.

 

[MtB]

 

David Mack wrote:

"Don't know quite what was up with it - I took the burner out, cleaned soot off, tinkered a bit but it refused to stay alight for more than about 30 seconds, so I reassembled it while going to look online for spare parts. Then on the off-chance tried firing it up a couple of hours later, and it has run flawlessly since! (Touches wood furiously)."

 

Failing oil pump at a guess, pressures all wrong. @Ex Brummie would know better than me though. I've not had an oil combustion ticket for 20 years! 

 

Although I have to say, I used to find 50% of oil boiler failures were nothing to do with the boiler and everything to do with the oil supply.

 

I gave up oil boiler fixing after yet another tramp down a garden on a freezing Friday night in the dark and the slashing rain with a torch to check the oil tank and finding it empty despite assurances from the custard* it was not. 

 

*Trade slang for the customer.

 

Edited January 12 by MtB
Try to sort the quote out!

[booke23]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

@Ex Brummie despite assurances from the custard*  

 

*Trade slang for the customer.

 

 

Ah I've not heard that before. I just assumed you replaced 'Ba' with 'Cu' at the start of that word for the sake of decency!

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Ah I've not heard that before. I just assumed you replaced 'Ba' with 'Cu' at the start of that word for the sake of decency!

 

The copper stard? 

 

 

[booke23]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The copper stard? 

 

 

 

Noooo, the Barium stard!

[Russ T]

17 minutes ago, MtB said:

*Trade slang for the customer.

I'm discustard you talk about your punters like that.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Rod Stewart said:

I'm discustard you talk about your punters like that.

 

I have heard worse terms used, e.g. *** ******* *******

[magnetman]

5 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

I'm discustard you talk about your punters like that.

I did not realise the posters were involved in the hire if unpowered Boats. 

 

If so then I would seek to congratulate them for helping the nan on the Clapham omnibus engage with the waterways. 

 

There is nothing half so much worth doing as watching old women sitting in punts while hired ganymedes exhibit their skillful use of the pole. 

 

 

 

I was a ganymede once. 

[Russ T]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I did not realise the posters were involved in the hire if unpowered Boats. 

 

If so then I would seek to congratulate them for helping the nan on the Clapham omnibus engage with the waterways. 

 

There is nothing half so much worth doing as watching old women sitting in punts while hired ganymedes exhibit their skillful use of the pole. 

 

 

 

I was a ganymede once. 

 

Have you been sniffing the columbian doubles again?

 

I am not referring to the central  south american tennis team

Edited January 12 by Rod Stewart

[magnetman]

24 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

I'm discustard you talk about your punters like that.

 

Hire Boats. 

 

The only time I get involved with tennis is the solicitors. 

 

 

Edited January 12 by magnetman
bolding

[Guest]

11 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

At least two members of this forum have spare boats.

 

 

 

 

My oil drip stove has a mica window. It cracked just for the BSS inspection, so I cut a replacement from some mica I got on eBay. The biggest problem was undoing a couple of the bolts that held it. I used stainless steel replacements, with brass domed nuts and liberally slathered Copperslip grease onto the threads before final assembly, so hopefully prevent a recurrence should the mica break again.

Yes I have a spare boat, it was an impulse buy because I couldn't bare see it deteriorate any further. Still it keeps me occupied and poor

[Ex Brummie]

16 hours ago, MtB said:

 

David Mack wrote:

"Don't know quite what was up with it - I took the burner out, cleaned soot off, tinkered a bit but it refused to stay alight for more than about 30 seconds, so I reassembled it while going to look online for spare parts. Then on the off-chance tried firing it up a couple of hours later, and it has run flawlessly since! (Touches wood furiously)."

 

Failing oil pump at a guess, pressures all wrong. @Ex Brummie would know better than me though. I've not had an oil combustion ticket for 20 years! 

 

 

 

Without a doubt, frozen sludge in a filter or oil line.' Cleaning soot off' is an indication of poor maintenance,

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

Without a doubt, frozen sludge in a filter or oil line.

 

A great example of what I was saying about oil boilers failing for reasons nothing to do with the boiler! 

 

12 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

Cleaning soot off' is an indication of poor maintenance,

 

Indeed. Easily fixed IIRC using a gas analyser and oil pressure and vacuum gauges.

 

Requires a £few hundred spending on these instruments or one is totlly in the dark.