Which heating solution to go for?

[copseanson]

Hi all,  

 

Doing a lot of research here on which heating system to go for and thought I'd pick your brains to see what people have to say.

 

My current spec:

• 65' x 12'6" Collingwood widebeam sailaway, living full time on board as continuous cruiser. Partner working from home 2 days a week and she likes to keep warm.
• 5 radiators fitted and piped (2x 600mm x 1020mm double panel for living area, 2x 600mm x 780mm double panel for bedrooms, 1x shower rail). Not connected to any heating system yet.
• Twin-coil calorifier 77L. fitted.
• 5KV Victron Multiplus 2 inverted supplied by 48V 280Ah battery bank and recharged by 6x 430W solar panels.

 

My desires:

• DIY fitting (if legal).
• Smart app functions (not essential).
• System that can heat up the radiators and also the water in the calorifier.
• obviously lowest fuel consumption for given result.
• a system that can maintain a steady temperature throughout the day when my partner is home working.
• 230V system preferrable

 

The two options that have been put forward to me so far:

 

1. Webasto Pro 90
2. Bubble PJ-230 VAC

 

Pros and cons for each system that I can see so far:

 

Webasto Pros:

• Small factor.
• Plenty of supporting documents online and videos to show how to install.
• Good maintenance support should things go wrong and need repair (as far as I can tell).
• Cheaper.
• DIY-manageable.

 

Webasto Cons:

• I've read online that it doesn't like being run constantly. These systems are ok to run for short strong burst, not all day and/or night.
• 12/24V system required (which I would rather avoid since my whole setup is 230V. Although I've read that a block PSU unit can be considered (but this might have been for vans, not boats).

 

Bubble Pros:

• Runs on 230V.
• Can run for long periods of time.
• Similar to a domestic central heating system.
• Uses around 180W when functioning (which I think I can live with).

 

Bubble Cons:

• Expensive.
• Bulkier.
• More complicated install.
• Not as much documentation online, so not sure what repair support would be like.
• Not as DIY manageable as the Webasto.

 

So my questions are:

 

1. Has anyone had experience with either or even both, and which one did they prefer and why? Any problems you encountered with one compared to the other?
2. Do these units need to be installed by professionals in order to meet BSS?
3. Money no objection, which one would you choose?
4. Are there any other models/options you know of that you can recommend?
5. I'm sure many more questions will come following your comments  Thanks in advance!

 

Thank you all for reading this long post. And thanks for all being awesome on this Forum!

[IanD]

25 minutes ago, copseanson said:

Hi all,  

 

Doing a lot of research here on which heating system to go for and thought I'd pick your brains to see what people have to say.

 

My current spec:

• 65' x 12'6" Collingwood widebeam sailaway, living full time on board as continuous cruiser. Partner working from home 2 days a week and she likes to keep warm.
• 5 radiators fitted and piped (2x 600mm x 1020mm double panel for living area, 2x 600mm x 780mm double panel for bedrooms, 1x shower rail). Not connected to any heating system yet.
• Twin-coil calorifier 77L. fitted.
• 5KV Victron Multiplus 2 inverted supplied by 48V 280Ah battery bank and recharged by 6x 430W solar panels.

 

My desires:

• DIY fitting (if legal).
• Smart app functions (not essential).
• System that can heat up the radiators and also the water in the calorifier.
• obviously lowest fuel consumption for given result.
• a system that can maintain a steady temperature throughout the day when my partner is home working.
• 230V system preferrable

 

The two options that have been put forward to me so far:

 

1. Webasto Pro 90
2. Bubble PJ-230 VAC

 

Pros and cons for each system that I can see so far:

 

Webasto Pros:

• Small factor.
• Plenty of supporting documents online and videos to show how to install.
• Good maintenance support should things go wrong and need repair (as far as I can tell).
• Cheaper.
• DIY-manageable.

 

Webasto Cons:

• I've read online that it doesn't like being run constantly. These systems are ok to run for short strong burst, not all day and/or night.
• 12/24V system required (which I would rather avoid since my whole setup is 230V. Although I've read that a block PSU unit can be considered (but this might have been for vans, not boats).

 

Bubble Pros:

• Runs on 230V.
• Can run for long periods of time.
• Similar to a domestic central heating system.
• Uses around 180W when functioning (which I think I can live with).

 

Bubble Cons:

• Expensive.
• Bulkier.
• More complicated install.
• Not as much documentation online, so not sure what repair support would be like.
• Not as DIY manageable as the Webasto.

 

So my questions are:

 

1. Has anyone had experience with either or even both, and which one did they prefer and why? Any problems you encountered with one compared to the other?
2. Do these units need to be installed by professionals in order to meet BSS?
3. Money no objection, which one would you choose?
4. Are there any other models/options you know of that you can recommend?
5. I'm sure many more questions will come following your comments  Thanks in advance!

 

Thank you all for reading this long post. And thanks for all being awesome on this Forum!

 

I have a Bubble on my narrowboat with a Nest controller (and smart app for remote control/monitoring), and it works very well -- as you say, it's pretty much a miniature oil-fired CH system, running from 230Vac (including pump and controller). It's perfectly happy to pulse on and off in bursts since it's designed to do this, that's exactly what domestic CH does -- typically it runs for 20mins or so, then shuts down while the hot water is circulated round, then starts up again when the controller tells it to after water/room temperature has dropped slightly. When I'm away from the boat it also does frost protection, turning on briefly when internal temperature drops below 4.5C.

 

Regarding maintenance, apart from not having some of the Webasto reliability issues, it's pretty much assembled from standard domestic CH parts, which are cheap and easily obtainable and can be diagnosed and repaired by anyone who can fix oil-fired domestic heating boilers. Can't comment on the ease of installation since it was done by my boatbuilder, but don't see why it should be difficult -- it uses standard domestic two-port valves for CH/hot water control.

 

One other comment -- since you're having a wideboat built, get as much solar on the roof as you can, you should be able to get much more than 2.6kWp in (I've got 2.1kWp on a narrowboat). Solar is cheap, and the more you have the less you'll need other power sources especially in winter -- this will reduce the number of months you need other sources, maybe even get you through all year if you're frugal with power.

 

Here's the Bubble and plumbing to the calorifier/valves etc...

 

Edited January 9 by IanD

[Ex Brummie]

Try looking at small non condensing domestic oil boilers which come out at 50% of the bubble price. Mistral, Firebird, to name but 2. 

 

[Mike Tee]

If you will be a continuous cruiser, then not on a land line, how will you be generating your 240v? If no 12v/24v on board you will need to have 240v available virtually all the time.

[copseanson]

12 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

Try looking at small non condensing domestic oil boilers which come out at 50% of the bubble price. Mistral, Firebird, to name but 2. 

 

Thanks for that, are they legal to have on boats? Say in the engine bay? I don't have space for it inside the cabin at this point....

 

12 hours ago, Mike Tee said:

If you will be a continuous cruiser, then not on a land line, how will you be generating your 240v? If no 12v/24v on board you will need to have 240v available virtually all the time.

Correct  I've got quite a good array of solar and space to add more in the future. Plus the engine has a 175A alternator also available to charge the domestic bank  

[Tonka]

13 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

Try looking at small non condensing domestic oil boilers which come out at 50% of the bubble price. Mistral, Firebird, to name but 2. 

 

Have you looked at the reviews for the brands you have mentioned, because I wouldn't buy a a Firebird boiler when I had the house boiler replaced 

[Ex Brummie]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

Have you looked at the reviews for the brands you have mentioned, because I wouldn't buy a a Firebird boiler when I had the house boiler replaced 

I worked for many years as a self employed oil boiler and range cooker technician. Yes, there are differences in quality as there are in every supply of goods and services. The main problem with any boiler is that as it does not sit on the drive and can be polished every week to signify 'prosperity', its care and attention is seriously lacking and reliability suffers. 

15 hours ago, Mike Tee said:

If you will be a continuous cruiser, then not on a land line, how will you be generating your 240v? If no 12v/24v on board you will need to have 240v available virtually all the time.

A standard domestic oil boiler will consume no more power than the 'marine' Bubble model considered by the OP, which uses the same burner and controls. In fact, it may use a little less as the earlier Bubble boilers had a lengthy post purge which kept the fan motor running longer. 

The only potential downside to any pressure jet boiler if it is run on 35 sec oil (Diesel) is that in very cold weather ignition may be impaired with atomisation of very small fuel throughputs being affevted.

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

I worked for many years as a self employed oil boiler and range cooker technician. Yes, there are differences in quality as there are in every supply of goods and services. The main problem with any boiler is that as it does not sit on the drive and can be polished every week to signify 'prosperity', its care and attention is seriously lacking and reliability suffers. 

A standard domestic oil boiler will consume no more power than the 'marine' Bubble model considered by the OP, which uses the same burner and controls. In fact, it may use a little less as the earlier Bubble boilers had a lengthy post purge which kept the fan motor running longer. 

The only potential downside to any pressure jet boiler if it is run on 35 sec oil (Diesel) is that in very cold weather ignition may be impaired with atomisation of very small fuel throughputs being affevted.

 

As you say the Bubble uses similar internal hardware to a domestic boiler, assuming you can find one small enough. However it's much better suited for fitting into restricted spaces on a boat, especially if you want to get it under the stern deck on the swim like mine (where Webastos and Eberspachers are normally fitted), the horizontal model fits in quite neatly.

 

I don't know how much throttling the Bubble uses, it's quite possible it uses full power in short bursts instead. When used for frost protection in winter (controlled by the Nest) mine comes on for about 20mins at a time and then shuts off for several hours, repeating this as many times a day as needed to keep the temperature above the set limit. Touch wood but it's never failed to come on so far, even with long spells of several days well below 0C... 😉 

[OllieBlue]

On 09/01/2025 at 16:34, IanD said:

 

I have a Bubble on my narrowboat with a Nest controller (and smart app for remote control/monitoring), and it works very well -- as you say, it's pretty much a miniature oil-fired CH system, running from 230Vac (including pump and controller). It's perfectly happy to pulse on and off in bursts since it's designed to do this, that's exactly what domestic CH does -- typically it runs for 20mins or so, then shuts down while the hot water is circulated round, then starts up again when the controller tells it to after water/room temperature has dropped slightly. When I'm away from the boat it also does frost protection, turning on briefly when internal temperature drops below 4.5C.

 

Regarding maintenance, apart from not having some of the Webasto reliability issues, it's pretty much assembled from standard domestic CH parts, which are cheap and easily obtainable and can be diagnosed and repaired by anyone who can fix oil-fired domestic heating boilers. Can't comment on the ease of installation since it was done by my boatbuilder, but don't see why it should be difficult -- it uses standard domestic two-port valves for CH/hot water control.

 

One other comment -- since you're having a wideboat built, get as much solar on the roof as you can, you should be able to get much more than 2.6kWp in (I've got 2.1kWp on a narrowboat). Solar is cheap, and the more you have the less you'll need other power sources especially in winter -- this will reduce the number of months you need other sources, maybe even get you through all year if you're frugal with power.

 

Here's the Bubble and plumbing to the calorifier/valves etc...

 

Hi Ian,

(OP I hope you don’t mind my piggybacking your post, but I hope my questions contribute more information).

Ian, what smart app do you use, if you don’t mind my asking? And Calorifier size? I’m assuming if the system switches on regularly, it doesn’t need to be too large as you would be getting a constant supply of hot water?
And with this system, does this mean you can leave the boat for even a couple of weeks during the winter, and it effectively takes care of itself, preventing pipe freezing etc?

Also wanted to know the length of your boat for additional solar panels? I have a 69 foot. It’s a 1990s boat and I am thinking of completely redoing the heating system. I currently have 5 radiators. I’d get a professional to do it but no idea who to ask and what to look for, so this reply has been very helpful, thank you.

[nicknorman]

For a liveaboard I think you want to consider having 2 of as much as possible, since breakdowns always occur at the worst possible time and in the worst possible location! Your proposed heating will fail and you will freeze if:

 

boiler breaks down

run out of diesel

inverter fails

batteries go flat

battery charging problem (you do have engine or solar, but solar in mid winter does very little so we are talking about an engine or alternator issue)

 

Anyway, there are quite a lot of single point failures. Without heating, a boat cools down much faster than a house. If it were me I would also want a solid fuel stove which, assuming you have some coal, is highly unlikely to break down. Yes they are a bit messy but also they make for a cosy focal point in winter. You don’t have to always use it of course.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

6 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

For a liveaboard I think you want to consider having 2 of as much as possible, since breakdowns always occur at the worst possible time and in the worst possible location! Your proposed heating will fail and you will freeze if:

 

boiler breaks down

run out of diesel

inverter fails

batteries go flat

battery charging problem (you do have engine or solar, but solar in mid winter does very little so we are talking about an engine or alternator issue)

 

Anyway, there are quite a lot of single point failures. Without heating, a boat cools down much faster than a house. If it were me I would also want a solid fuel stove which, assuming you have some coal, is highly unlikely to break down. Yes they are a bit messy but also they make for a cosy focal point in winter. You don’t have to always use it of course.

Something like a Boatman's Stove, by Northern Fabrications as a backup. They are relatively cheap and as reliable as a brick.

[GUMPY]

We had three sources of heat on the barge.

Solid fuel stove at the front , changed from an oil burner. Eberspacher driving radiators and a small oil stove in the back.

One winter the Eber packed up, followed by a broken stove glass which left us with the oil burner at the back. So we lived at the back of the boat until we could get parts.

Moral is multiple sources, on multiple fuels if you don't want to freeze. Especially on a boat that big.

Central heating on its own won't hack it despite what you might think.

[magnetman]

I have always used wood or coal. 

On one of my narrows I did fit a Rayburn and a heating / hot water loop. Very luxurious but a LOT of coal..

 

As for fires if you have a glass in the door then make a blank the same from a piece of steel in case it breaks. I

 

I prefer mica windows and no boiler overall as it helps reduce chance of failure. Mica does not break like glass. 

 

I suppose for more luxury an oil boiler could be nice but then you rely on electric for heating which seems a bad idea to me.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rod Stewart]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

As for fires if you have a glass in the door then make a blank the same from a piece of steel in case it breaks. I

It always amazes me that people don't keep even the most basic spares for when things go wrong. Spare glass/alternative is a must on all boats, as is a spare domestic water pump. Spare flue pipe and spare flue collar might be pushing it.

[Peugeot 106]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

As for fires if you have a glass in the door then make a blank the same from a piece of steel in case it breaks. I

If it’s a popular model see if you can find a spare door and keep it in your stock of spares

7 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

It always amazes me that people don't keep even the most basic spares for when things go wrong. Spare glass/alternative is a must on all boats, as is a spare domestic water pump. Spare flue pipe and spare flue collar might be pushing it.

Amazon Prime!
 

[magnetman]

Yes when I had a mass produced fire I did keep a spare glass but cracked it while fitting it. 

 

it isn't that good to be doing a glass replacement in freezing conditions.

 

 

 A steel blank you can just chuck it on no particular care needed and carry on using the fire. 

I personally think a big piece of glass on a fire door is a potentially dangerous weakness. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

It always amazes me that people don't keep even the most basic spares for when things go wrong. Spare glass/alternative is a must on all boats, as is a spare domestic water pump. Spare flue pipe and spare flue collar might be pushing it.

Some people have a spare Boat. 

 

I don't have a spare alternative.

[Rod Stewart]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Some people have a spare Boat. 

 

I don't have a spare alternative.

I sold our spare NB last year. Still have the yacht though. No reliable heating on that though except the chinese heater.

[magnetman]

I have a bulletproof fire with a stainless steel flue on the nuclear fallout bunker. No window. Burns anything. 

 

 

 

 

Never actually tried those Diesel heaters. They seem popular but I don't like them. 

 

 

[Peugeot 106]

The problem with spares on the boat is that you need to be organised to find them without emptying the whole boat onto the towpath.

 

when I’m gone my children will have garages full of carefully acquired and stored “spares” to dispose of including a half built engine. “One of these days darlings all this will be yours”……..

[Rod Stewart]

2 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

The problem with spares on the boat is that you need to be organised to find them without emptying the whole boat onto the towpath.

 

when I’m gone my children will have garages full of carefully acquired and stored “spares” to dispose of including a half built engine. “One of these days darlings all this will be yours”……..

You have a garage on your boat? Impressed.

[magnetman]

4 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

my children will have garages 

 

2 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

You have a garage on your boat? Impressed.

Its the children who will have garages. 

[Rod Stewart]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

Its the children who will have garages. 

Future perfect... Children will have. Currently, the children do not have. All they currently have is the burden their future selves will have to endure due to the sins of the father.

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

Future perfect... Children will have. Currently, the children do not have. All they currently have is the burden their future selves will have to endure due to the sins of the father.

 

I've got endless random articles in my Boats. Not keen to burden the children so I will at some stage divest myself of all belongings and just get a sloop and sail it around the worlds. 

 

It is the only way to deal with the issue. 

 

 

 

 

But definitely keep the wood burner ! 

[Rod Stewart]

Just now, magnetman said:

 

I've got endless random articles in my Boats. Not keen to burden the children so I will at some stage divest myself of all belongings and just get a sloop and sail it around the worlds. 

 

It is the only way to deal with the issue. 

 

 

You are a man with a plan that doesn't burden your children. Sail your sloop and all its crap into the middle of the Atlantic, and scuttle her. If you can't make it that far, just east of the Thames barrier might be an acceptable compromise.

[Peugeot 106]

3 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

Future perfect... Children will have. Currently, the children do not have. All they currently have is the burden their future selves will have to endure due to the sins of the father.

They won’t have or want any garages. All rented. I had to vacate one that was full to the roof and I have to admit I haven’t missed anything I had to take to the skip. But a lot of memories went