Land sale costs

[Ginger123]

hi does anybody have a idea how much the strip of land behind a Industrial Estate would be worth alongside canal approximately 90 foot long mooring rights are there already.

lots of junk on there at the moment and only access is off canal?

 

We're new to boating so not sure how much such places are worth .

[john.k]

If the junk is metal ,then there is scrap value.............you d have to check the zoning ,and as its likley under flood ,that will impact the value negatively.

[MtB]

8 hours ago, Eidas said:

hi does anybody have a idea how much the strip of land behind a Industrial Estate would be worth alongside canal approximately 90 foot long mooring rights are there already.

lots of junk on there at the moment and only access is off canal?

 

We're new to boating so not sure how much such places are worth .

 

Too little information so far to even hazard a guess so far I'd say.

 

How wide is this strip of land?

How contaminated it it?

Is there any prospect of acquiring (buying) a right of vehicle (or foot) access across adjoining land?

Is it big enough to build a house or workshops on?

Where is it, roughly? In the north or the south?

Which waterway?

How solid are the mooring rights you mention? Is there planning permission to use is for residential mooring, for example? 

What is on the opposite side of the canal? Towpath? Housing estate? Woodland? Something else?

Is it registered with the Land Registry?

Are you buying or selling?

 

 

Lots of questions in order to build a better picture of it, before making even a wild guess as to the value!

 

 

 

Edited May 5 by MtB

[David Mack]

Narrow strip of land between industrial units and canal, no access, full of junk, no mooring rights - value s*d all.

Slightly wider strip of land between industrial units and canal, 24 hour pedestrian access (and nearby parking), reasonably clear, established moorings rights (confirmed in writing by CRT) - potentially valuable mooring site.

I'm guessing the OP has seen a strip of land and is considering approaching the landowner with an offer, but doesn't know what figure to suggest. If the land is part of an industrial site, the landowner is probably uninterested in selling. The money they would get wouldn't justify the cost and inconvenience of selling it off. They would lose access to the back of their building for maintenance, run the risk of 'bad neighbour' issues they don't have at present, and could significantly devalue the whole site as a waterside redevelopment opportunity (even if they have no such plans at present).

Also, the adjacent landowner may not own all/any of the land in question. It could well be CRT's, and they won't sell.

[Jim Riley]

A screenshot off Google earth would help. 

[ditchcrawler]

In Birmingham with no road access on the Perry Barrr flight by any chance?

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

 

Also, the adjacent landowner may not own all/any of the land in question. It could well be CRT's, and they won't sell.

Land Registry map search is useful for this. Free service no login just put a marker on the map. The results do not give you the owner unless it is an estate but if it is CRT land from the original CPO when the canals were enabled then the land will come up as 'part of the xxxx canal' even if it is in land not water. Canals consist of land -and- water. In fact they consist only of land in reality its just that some of this land has been dug out to enable it to be flooded. 

 

 

So for example the towing path beside the Grand Union would be classed as 'part of the Grand Union Canal'. 

 

 

service 

 

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/search/map-search/find-by-map

 

Edited May 5 by magnetman

[Tracy D'arth]

If this is Birmingham on the Tame Valley canal I know it well. No access from the land side. Been up for sale for ages. Price been increased twice. Disputes between owner and estate tenant over access.

All mooring rights cease on a change of land ownership, you would have to start over again with C&RT. Mooring rights are not transferable no matter what you are told.

[MtB]

26 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If this is Birmingham on the Tame Valley canal I know it well. No access from the land side. Been up for sale for ages. Price been increased twice. Disputes between owner and estate tenant over access.

All mooring rights cease on a change of land ownership, you would have to start over again with C&RT. Mooring rights are not transferable no matter what you are told.

 

 

Based on this I'll be first to suggest a valuation.

 

£10k. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

12 hours ago, Eidas said:

and only access is off canal?

 

So, if you moor your boat there, presumably you will need another boat to be able to depart the mooring, to go shopping, go home, etc, and then,  to be able to return to your mooring.

 

Where are you going to moor your 2nd boat ?

Edited May 5 by Alan de Enfield

[Ginger123]

The second boat is light so only put on water for that purpose 

[Paul C]

Could deflate it and put it in the boot of the car?

[Ginger123]

47 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Based on this I'll be first to suggest a valuation.

 

£10k. 

 

 

Hi its just outside Birmingham,  Dudley 

Ty for reply 

[Ginger123]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

In Birmingham with no road access on the Perry Barrr flight by any chance?

I know the land your referring to however this is in Dudley but same layout etc 

 

I'm not sure if it's the same person selling due to how similar it is 

[Tacet]

It takes some effort to create a truly landlocked parcel; there is a rebuttable presumption that a way of necessity is created over the retained land unless you make specific provision to the contrary.

[john.k]

Its strange that the adjacent industrial users havent simply extended their back fences to take over this 'free'space.............Which indicates there is some reason this hasnt been done...............maybe if the OP can squat there for 10 years he can claim adverse possession.

[Ginger123]

On 04/05/2024 at 23:20, Ginger123 said:

hi does anybody have a idea how much the strip of land behind a Industrial Estate would be worth alongside canal approximately 90 foot long mooring rights are there already.

lots of junk on there at the moment and only access is off canal?

 

We're new to boating so not sure how much such places are worth .

90meters not ft

7 minutes ago, john.k said:

Its strange that the adjacent industrial users havent simply extended their back fences to take over this 'free'space.............Which indicates there is some reason this hasnt been done...............maybe if the OP can squat there for 10 years he can claim adverse possession.

The land was brought by a different unit owner on the site.. 

Hence the fencing blocking access.

 

It's actually 80meters ish .

 

 

[MtB]

6 hours ago, Ginger123 said:

90meters not ft

The land was brought by a different unit owner on the site.. 

Hence the fencing blocking access.

 

It's actually 80meters ish .

 

 

 

So is this strip of land actually on the market for sale?

 

Or are you hoping to approach this unit owner and persuade them to sell it to you, even though they are not actively marketing it? 

 

Why does the value of it matter to you, one jot?

 

 

 

[john.k]

I get real estate idiots harassing me to sell quite frequently ..........they get quite upset when I drop their red folder contracts into the rubbish bin without even looking ...............best so far was an overweight female who decided to read out the contents of her contract,and include some severe terms about me cleaning up the place within 30 days ...bwa-ha-ha-ha .

[Ginger123]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

So is this strip of land actually on the market for sale?

 

Or are you hoping to approach this unit owner and persuade them to sell it to you, even though they are not actively marketing it? 

 

Why does the value of it matter to you, one jot?

 

 

 

I'm worried he's charging us to much .. and if we ever needed to sell we would be able to with loosing loads of money 

1 hour ago, john.k said:

I get real estate idiots harassing me to sell quite frequently ..........they get quite upset when I drop their red folder contracts into the rubbish bin without even looking ...............best so far was an overweight female who decided to read out the contents of her contract,and include some severe terms about me cleaning up the place within 30 days ...bwa-ha-ha-ha .

This is up for sale a hugh cost , I'm just worried he's charging to much 

[MtB]

32 minutes ago, Ginger123 said:

I'm worried he's charging us to much .. and if we ever needed to sell we would be able to with loosing loads of money

 

 

Ah I see. 

 

I'd say the market for a landlocked site like this is microscopic so you are unlikely ever to get back whatever might pay for it, even if you only pay a few £k. I'd suggest you are far better off renting a mooring than buying a site like this for anything more than say, five or six times the annual cost of renting a mooring. And even then I doubt you'd ever be able to sell it again.

 

How long has it been on the market? Just something I suggest you look into and consider what you discover. 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Are you aware that C&RT most likely own a strip on the canal bank probably 6 to 8 feet wide ( or more ) that you can never own and can only have an annual lease for to give you any rights to use it or cross it?

Owning the land behind it gives you no rights and C&RT can occupy that strip for any purpose they want.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Are you aware that C&RT most likely own a strip on the canal bank probably 6 to 8 feet wide ( or more ) that you can never own and can only have an annual lease for to give you any rights to use it or cross it?

Owning the land behind it gives you no rights and C&RT can occupy that strip for any purpose they want.

 

And not only ^^^this^^^.

 

Even if you end up owning the site outright to the water's edge, you STILL don't get to moor there without:

 

1) Approval from CRT which you may not get, and

2) If you get CRT approval, you still have to pay CRT a hefty annual fee for the right. 50% of the cost of similar local moorings is normal. 

 

 

[Ginger123]

41 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Ah I see. 

 

I'd say the market for a landlocked site like this is microscopic so you are unlikely ever to get back whatever might pay for it, even if you only pay a few £k. I'd suggest you are far better off renting a mooring than buying a site like this for anything more than say, five or six times the annual cost of renting a mooring. And even then I doubt you'd ever be able to sell it again.

 

How long has it been on the market? Just something I suggest you look into and consider what you discover. 

 

 

Thankyiu for your advice,  it's 120k 80 metres long 10ft wide covered in heavy junk 

[MtB]

Seems an awful lot to me, but then I have no desire for a permanent mooring. 

 

Bear in mind even if to get CRT permission to moor there, you'll have to pay them perhaps £1,500 a year in what's known as "End of garden" mooring fees. EOG fees.