Boat Safety Certificate

[Tacet]

41 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Nope. and that is why the BSS (or anyone else) cannot stop you self harming by having legislation that you MUST have (say) ventilation on your boat. It is only compulsory where it is a commercial boat and you are endangering other paying customers.

 

The Suicide Act 1961 (9 & 10 Eliz. 2. c. 60) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It decriminalised the act of suicide in England and Wales so that those who survived a suicide attempt would no longer be prosecuted.

Why do I have to wear a helmet when riding my motorbike?

[Bargebuilder]

29 minutes ago, LadyG said:

There are other gases which are noxious,  if I can smell something, then there will be pollution.

I couldn't agree more and like you, I too would shut the door, however, the BSS is supposedly protecting us from CO from other boats and I maintain that it is incredibly unlikely that CO would migrate across several metres of open air, pour, by then further diluted, into an open door and build up inside a cabin on another boat with its door wide open, in sufficient concentration to seriously damage the occupant. A CO detector may detect it, but that doesn't mean the occupant would be harmed.

 

Think of all those traditional NB skippers who spend many hours every day just a few feet downwind of the diesel fumes coming from the vertical flue in front of them. Not as much CO as from a petrol engine perhaps, but up to 12% of the total exhausted. It's all a matter of dilution.

[Momac]

5 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Why do I have to wear a helmet when riding my motorbike?

So the rescue services can identify you after you have been decapitated .

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Why do I have to wear a helmet when riding my motorbike?

 

I don't write the play - I just read the lines !

[Bargebuilder]

32 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Expand  

I can think of two cases in marinas where the CO alarm alerted the occupant of CO from an external source

I know of one case where the CO detector alerted the occupant of a malfunctioning battery charger in the boat next to him in the marina. 

[Momac]

34 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I know of one case where the CO detector alerted the occupant of a malfunctioning battery charger in the boat next to him in the marina. 

I  alerted the marina here to an alarm from a CO detector which proved to be a gassing battery

The owner  was called. I understand the battery was very hot  but caught in time to avoid an exploding battery.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I can think of two cases in marinas where the CO alarm alerted the occupant of CO from an external source which involved the emergency services attending . I also know personally of a case of a boat owner dying from CO in his own boat prior to the requirement of CO detectors, his dog died beside him. 

 

 

So that's a 'no' then...

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

Think of all those traditional NB skippers who spend many hours every day just a few feet downwind of the diesel fumes coming from the vertical flue in front of them. Not as much CO as from a petrol engine perhaps, but up to 12% of the total exhausted. It's all a matter of dilution.

 

Point of Order:

 

Diesel engines produce feck-all CO (technical term). Petrol engines on the other hand chuck it out in spades. 

 

 

[Ianws]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Did you not look at the BSS justification for the introduction of CO alarms ?

 

It is nothing to do with protecting 'others' in your boat, its all about protecting YOU from other boats.

 

Have a read of it, it's not difficult to undestand their thinking.

My digital CO alarm shows previous peak levels. They indicate levels (not life threatening) when we haven't been there (and it's not batteries sulphating). It's probably fumes from other  boats. I can't think of  another source. 

4 minutes ago, Ianws said:

My digital CO alarm shows previous peak levels. They indicate levels (not life threatening) when we haven't been there (and it's not batteries sulphating). It's probably fumes from other  boats. I can't think of  another source.

Edited to say that may be stove emissions rather than the boat engine. 

 

[Bargebuilder]

32 minutes ago, MtB said:

Point of Order:

 

Diesel engines produce feck-all CO (technical term). Petrol engines on the other hand chuck it out in spades. 

Although not anywhere near as much CO as a poorly tuned petrol engine, diesel engines certainly could produce high enough concentrations of CO in a confined space to cause serious damage to health. I certainly wouldn't want to helm behind an exhaust outlet based on what Wikipedia says about diesel exhaust:

"Diesel exhaust is a Group 1 carcinogen, which causes lung cancer and has a positive association with bladder cancer.^{[2][3][4][5][6]} It contains several substances that are also listed individually as human carcinogens by the IARC.^[7]"

53 minutes ago, Ianws said:

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Expand  

My digital CO alarm shows previous peak levels. They indicate levels (not life threatening) when we haven't been there (and it's not batteries sulphating)

Don't you have solar panels that charge your batteries in your absence? My solar panels regularly register on my CO detector because they are very sensitive to Hydrogen. Even if your batteries don't gas off hydrogen, those on your neighbours boats may well.

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Although not anywhere near as much CO as a poorly tuned petrol engine, diesel engines certainly could produce high enough concentrations of CO in a confined space to cause serious damage to health. I certainly wouldn't want to helm behind an exhaust outlet based on what Wikipedia says about diesel exhaust:

"Diesel exhaust is a Group 1 carcinogen, which causes lung cancer and has a positive association with bladder cancer.^{[2][3][4][5][6]} It contains several substances that are also listed individually as human carcinogens by the IARC.^[7]"

 

Typical forum swerve. 

 

We were discussing CO, not carcinogens. 

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

17 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Typical forum swerve. 

 

We were discussing CO, not carcinogens. 

 

 

Not a swerve, just an addition, that diesel exhaust not only contains CO, but it is hazardous to health in other ways also. I've seen one chap who has rigged up a flexible hose from his cabin top exhaust to run over the stern of his NB to reduce his particulate intake; a sensible precaution perhaps. 

 

 

 

 

[Momac]

I think its well established that the particulates from diesel engine exhausts are harmful. This has led to the collapse of the sales of new diesel cars in the UK.

Yet exhaust emissions are not part of the BSS test. Indeed the engine is not started as part of the BSS exam.  Nor is the location of the exhaust relative to the helmsman a consideration of the BSS exam. 

Perhaps these matters should be considered by the BSS . The fact they are not backs up the understanding  the boater is lower priority then the general public as far as the BSS is concerned..

 

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Momac said:

I think its well established that the particulates from diesel engine exhausts are harmful. This has led to the collapse of the sales of new diesel cars in the UK.

Yet exhaust emissions are not part of the BSS test. Indeed the engine is not started as part of the BSS exam.  Nor is the location of the exhaust relative to the helmsman a consideration of the BSS exam. 

Perhaps these matters should be considered by the BSS . The fact they are not backs up the understanding  the boater is lower priority then the general public as far as the BSS is concerned..

 

 

 

BUT - they are part of the RCD so that problem should be covered from manufacture - assuming of course the boat is built to be compliant !

 

RCD/RCR Engine acceptable emission levels (Diesels) The boat buildeer should have an engine compliance certificate which is (should be) included in the owners handbook

 

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

BUT - they are part of the RCD so that problem should be covered from manufacture - assuming of course the boat is built to be compliant !

 

RCD/RCR Engine acceptable emission levels (Diesels) The boat buildeer should have an engine compliance certificate which is (should be) included in the owners handbook

 

In that case I would have to change my engine to be compliant. I may just go for a Viking funeral and have done with it. 

[Momac]

17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

In that case I would have to change my engine to be compliant. I may just go for a Viking funeral and have done with it. 

Note table 1 applies to engines less than 37kW which I suspect applies to most narrowboats.

Also the emissions regs did not apply to boats built prior to 18th January 2016.

 

 

Edited August 3 by Momac

[Mike Todd]

15 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Huh, i always thought it was... although prosecuting would be rather awkward 🤦‍♂️

Not since 1961. 

 

Up til then people were prosecuted for attempting and failing suicide on the basis that suicide itself was still a crime. It remains the case that 'assisting a person to commit suicide' remains a crime although rarely prosecuted.

[Bargebuilder]

9 hours ago, Momac said:

  Nor is the location of the exhaust relative to the helmsman a consideration of the BSS exam. 

Perhaps these matters should be considered by the BSS . The fact they are not backs up the understanding  the boater is lower priority then the general public as far as the BSS is concerned.

Quite.

The BSS speaks of the necessity of protecting the boats occupants from the long term effects on health of low levels of CO that waft in through the window. So much so, that fully electric boats with no gas, petrol, diesel or solid fuel on board must have multiple CO detectors, depending on the number of 'rooms'. 

 

Despite the risk of other people's CO building up inside another boat is vanishingly small, we have to buy multiple detectors. The long term risk to health from the particulates in ones own exhaust is arguably higher, but no mention is made of that risk. This might be the top of a slippery slope, with the BSS getting increasingly involved in 'looking after' us.

 

 

[Momac]

15 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Quite.

The BSS speaks of the necessity of protecting the boats occupants from the long term effects on health of low levels of CO that waft in through the window. So much so, that fully electric boats with no gas, petrol, diesel or solid fuel on board must have multiple CO detectors, depending on the number of 'rooms'. 

 

Despite the risk of other people's CO building up inside another boat is vanishingly small, we have to buy multiple detectors. The long term risk to health from the particulates in ones own exhaust is arguably higher, but no mention is made of that risk. This might be the top of a slippery slope, with the BSS getting increasingly involved in 'looking after' us.

 

 

I think the CO detector requirement is one of the very few good  aspects of the BSS.  

It seems people do need to be told what to do regards safety - eg seat belts, use of phones  while driving, crash helmets , PPE at work........

[Bargebuilder]

4 minutes ago, Momac said:

I think the CO detector requirement is one of the very few good  aspects of the BSS.  

It seems people do need to be told what to do regards safety - eg seat belts, use of phones  while driving, crash helmets , PPE at work........

I do too, but I'm not convinced that the risk from other boats is great enough to justify insisting on multiple CO detectors in boats that don't burn any sort of fuel.

[Momac]

4 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I do too, but I'm not convinced that the risk from other boats is great enough to justify insisting on multiple CO detectors in boats that don't burn any sort of fuel.

You shouldn't need to be convinced. Just do as the rules  say (or not if you prefer).

[Bargebuilder]

20 minutes ago, Momac said:

You shouldn't need to be convinced. Just do as the rules  say (or not if you prefer).

My boat fully complied with the requirements of the BSS on the day it was examined. 

[DD.]

On 01/08/2024 at 19:27, Bargebuilder said:

But Basic Boat are happy to insure lumpy water boats that don't have a BSS and for no additional premium.

 

All I know is. I want a boat under 30yrs. Otherwise criteria for fully comp insurance gets more requirements. Which means more expense.

 

And third party is easy. Little required for such.

Edited August 3 by Amaya

[Bargebuilder]

1 minute ago, Amaya said:

 

All I know is. I want a boat under 30yrs. Otherwise criteria for fully comp insurance gets more requirements. Which means more expense.

It's almost 30 years since I've bothered with fully comprehensive insurance, and that includes when I lived in a brand new replica Dutch barge! 

[ditchcrawler]

23 minutes ago, Amaya said:

 

All I know is. I want a boat under 30yrs. Otherwise criteria for fully comp insurance gets more requirements. Which means more expense.

 

And third party is easy. Little required for such.

But you dont have RCD/RCRproblems

[LadyG]

24 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

It's almost 30 years since I've bothered with fully comprehensive insurance, and that includes when I lived in a brand new replica Dutch barge! 

I think  there is very little difference in cost, so fully comp is a no brainer.

Edited August 3 by LadyG