skipper 17 boat to use on canal

[Blue37]

hi i have just bought my first boat a skipper 17 to use on the canals would appreciaite any support ty

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Z37 said:

hi i have just bought my first boat a skipper 17 to use on the canals would appreciaite any support ty

 

Welcome - you might have a bit of trouble with the mast, presumably you are planning to motor it ?

At 7 foot beam you should be fine thru the majority of locks (as long as you don't drop fenders down) and you'll need to keep the centre board / keel plates 'up' as the canals are mostly well under 1 metre deep (boats with 30" draft tend to be ploughing a furrow thru the mud)

 

What sort of use are you planning (cruising long distance or just pottering about) ?

 

Do you have a mooring or will you pop it back on its trailer ?

 

Do not forget that you need a boat safety certificate (BSS), insurance and a boat licence before you can put it into the water.

Edited January 21 by Alan de Enfield

[Blue37]

yes am going to buy a motor - was thinking of an electric one as that would be nice and quiet but i may just buy a cheap engine to see how boat is on the water - just going to potter about on the canals - the boat is on the trailer - i was told i dont need a bsc as there is no gas - i do need insurance - can also buy day licenses plus others i think - thanks for tip about keels and centre board

[ditchcrawler]

20 minutes ago, Z37 said:

yes am going to buy a motor - was thinking of an electric one as that would be nice and quiet but i may just buy a cheap engine to see how boat is on the water - just going to potter about on the canals - the boat is on the trailer - i was told i dont need a bsc as there is no gas - i do need insurance - can also buy day licenses plus others i think - thanks for tip about keels and centre board

I don't know your boat but the BSS is not as simple as not having gas.

[magnetman]

If you can declare it an open Boat with no fixed electric or gas system then it is BS exempt. 

 

I'm sure a few small cuddy cabin Boats get declared as being open.

 

 

If it is like this and that blue cover can be removed to make it an open cabin then it seems to me to be an open Boat with the front partly decked over. 

 

 

Of course it is a cuddy cabin but its close enough to declare open I reckon. I don't know if it would be appropriate. but that is what I would do.

 

If there is a sealed door in the hole rather than a lift out piece of wood or something then it has a cabin.

 

 

 

 

 

[Blue37]

hi it has a cabin with a sliding top piece and 2 wooden slot in pieces of wood at the moment - i asked the canal trust and they said if no gas then it does not need a bsc - but that may be different of each canal i guess

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Z37 said:

hi it has a cabin with a sliding top piece and 2 wooden slot in pieces of wood at the moment - i asked the canal trust and they said if no gas then it does not need a bsc - but that may be different of each canal i guess

 

The majority of the UK canals and some rivers do come under CaRT. Some other rivers come under the Environment Agency, and the BSS applies equal to both, as it does to most of the other canals and rivers.

[magnetman]

I'm surprised if the CRT said a Boat without gas needs not Boat Safety certificate. 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/licence-your-boat/boat-safety-scheme

 

Sounds a bit like someone googling it and getting the wrong result !

 

On the above link it implies that anything with an engine needs a BS ticket. I think not but thats what it says unless it is a newly built Boat. 

14 minutes ago, Z37 said:

 i asked the canal trust and they said if no gas then it does not need a bsc - 

Who exactly did you ask about this. They need correcting. 

[Blue37]

what is cart?

[magnetman]

A Boat with a working inboard engine needs a BS ticket. A Boat with a permanent DC electrical installation needs a BS ticket. Its not all about gas although that is a major factor. 

Just now, Z37 said:

what is cart?

Canal and River Trust. 

They manage the vast majority of inland UK canals. 

[Blue37]

i was looking into getting a license and they said i was exempt from the bsc but i did need insurance

i told them what boat i had and what engine and they said no need for a bsc just need insurance to get a license

[magnetman]

Thats good. Have you got this in an email? 

"

My boat is very small and has an outboard motor, do I need BSS Certification?

On most waterways, a BSS Examination is not required in respect of any privately owned, open vessel (i.e. a vessel in which all the accommodation is completely open to the elements) if it has no domestic cooking, heating, refrigerating or lighting appliances installed and it is propelled solely by an outboard engine. Please ask the navigation or harbour authority that will be licensing or registering your boat, as it sets the terms and conditions of that registration."

 

From https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/requirements-examinations-certification/qa-on-bss-examinations/#:~:text=On most waterways%2C a BSS,solely by an outboard engine.

 

They do say check and you have done but I'm surprised it was only gas they were interested in. 

[BilgePump]

Welcome to the OP

Those little Skipprs are great.

If you are going to launch and recover by trailer on CaRT waters then you can just buy short term licences and not need a BSC test pass if you are a 'visitor' on an occasional basis.

If you intend to leave the boat on the water, moored or cruising, for more than a little while and take a full long term licence then you will need to get it tested. 

Any boat with an outboard, and enclosed cabin, regardless of gas and electrics, needs a BSC test. They' be the rules for the last five years. You can find older statements on line but they predate.

 

eta: I was thinking of the little cabin version https://www.topsail.co.uk/boat.php?refnum=1272 not the open boat. Not sure what type OP has.

Edited January 21 by BilgePump

[magnetman]

12 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Welcome to the OP

Those little Skipprs are great.

If you are going to launch and recover by trailer on CaRT waters then you can just buy short term licences and not need a BSC test pass if you are a 'visitor' on an occasional basis.

 

 

This is what I always assumed but having had reason to check recently the CRT require Boat Safety certificates for eligible Boats even if they are just on visitor licences. 

 

I was surprised. 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/licence-your-boat/short-term-visitor-licences

 

 

I'm sure in the past I have used a one day licence from the CRT or BW but it doesn't show up on the visitor licence page. 

 

For the Thames the safety of the Boat is self declared for visitors but that is an EA waterway. 

 

I think that this Boat can be classed as open with a decked over front section because there is no sealed door. 

 

 

[BilgePump]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

This is what I always assumed but having had reason to check recently the CRT require Boat Safety certificates for eligible Boats even if they are just on visitor licences. 

 

I was surprised. 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/licence-your-boat/short-term-visitor-licences

 

 

Seems like left hand, right hand??? That page links through to the 'Boat condition. Declaration for a short term licence'. Years ago it was limited to 56 days iirc but no mention of limits now. 

[magnetman]

The 30 day licence is interesting as the days do not need to be consecutive. 

 

 

I couldn't find a Boat condition declaration. Where did you see it ?

Oh yes its right down the bottom. 

 

Thanks for pointing this out !

[BilgePump]

Bottom of BSS page 

What if I'm just visiting from other waterways?

If you don't have any of the above, you can still get a short term visitor licence if you fill in and send us a boat condition declaration application form.

 

Now I've just realised this isn't the short term licence page you mentioned but the BSS page I clicked to.

 

You can still do it this way still, I think.

[magnetman]

So this is why the gas is the only thing they are interested in. 

 

boat condition declaration application form

 

 

 

 

It appears that you can have a gas system but you must declare that it has not been altered since the original installation. 

4 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Bottom of BSS page 

What if I'm just visiting from other waterways?

If you don't have any of the above, you can still get a short term visitor licence if you fill in and send us a boat condition declaration application form.

 

Now I've just realised this isn't the short term licence page you mentioned but the BSS page I clicked to.

 

You can still do it this way still, I think.

 

yes 

 

"

What if I'm just visiting from other waterways?

If you don't have any of the above, you can still get a short term visitor licence if you fill in and send us a boat condition declaration application form."

 

so despite the initial impression being that a BS ticket is needed for a visitor licence it actually isn't needed but you have to fill out the form. 

[BilgePump]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The 30 day licence is interesting as the days do not need to be consecutive. 

That's great if you can chuck the boat in or out on a free slipway day by day, or if it's a legit portable dinghy or just a bigger boat nosing out from non CaRT waters for a few days at a time. Isn't very efficient though if you need to pay a boatyard £20+ each way to get in the water. 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Z37 said:

hi it has a cabin with a sliding top piece and 2 wooden slot in pieces of wood at the moment - i asked the canal trust and they said if no gas then it does not need a bsc - but that may be different of each canal i guess

I can assure you that gas is not the yes or no for a BSS requirements, Lots of boats are gas free, mine are some other member here and we all require a BSS inspection every 4 years . 415-boat-safety-scheme-exemption-declaration.pdf (canalrivertrust.org.uk)

[Mad Harold]

44 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

That's great if you can chuck the boat in or out on a free slipway day by day, or if it's a legit portable dinghy or just a bigger boat nosing out from non CaRT waters for a few days at a time. Isn't very efficient though if you need to pay a boatyard £20+ each way to get in the water. 

The last slippage fee I paid was £30 two years ago!

You are not supposed to launch on a CRT canal except on a recognised slipway, but if you have a breakback trailer, it may be possible to launch from the canalside, but if CRT hear about it you may receive a stern letter.

[DandV]

Looks like a very nice boat to use for what it is designed to used for, Sailing.

Lots of nice rivers, lakes, and reservoirs, and even most of the various configurations of the sea.

Nothing like a puff of wind, a bit of heal, and the unique sound once you get going fast enough, of the gentle fizz of water against the hull.

 

[blackrose]

6 hours ago, Z37 said:

hi it has a cabin with a sliding top piece and 2 wooden slot in pieces of wood at the moment - i asked the canal trust and they said if no gas then it does not need a bsc - but that may be different of each canal i guess

 

Then surely it does come under the BSS remit and will need a safety certificate? Perhaps the person you spoke to misunderstood or you misunderstood them?

 

6 hours ago, BilgePump said:

Any boat with an outboard, and enclosed cabin, regardless of gas and electrics, needs a BSC test. 

 

Edited January 21 by blackrose

[magnetman]

8 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Then surely it does come under the BSS remit and will need a safety certificate? Perhaps the person you spoke to misunderstood or you misunderstood them?

 

 

It has been established in this thread that a visiting Boat does not in fact need a BS ticket but the owner must fill out the declaration form I imaged above. The only important factors which could prevent issue of the visitor licence are that the gas install must be original/any modifications were done by a professional, must have the right type and volume of petrol cans and that if it is a steam engine the boiler cert is up to date. 

 

Thats it. So if it has no gas system and is not a steam Boat then no problem particularly if it is an electric outboard. 

 

Its possible the OP was talking about visitor licences rather than long term licences. 

 

 

I also think the lack of a fixed door to the cabin may change the story. A bit like those partly enclosed outdoor smoking areas at pubs. There is shelter but it is not fully enclosed.

Edited January 22 by magnetman

[ditchcrawler]

How about this then that has just come up for sale on Facebook, diesel engine, fridge, stove and the owner says no BSS required

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

How about this then that has just come up for sale on Facebook, diesel engine, fridge, stove and the owner says no BSS required