Have Calor done a u-turn re smaller bottles?

[Just Heaven]

https://www.pbo.co.uk/news/calor-gas-u-turn-on-phasing-out-3-9kg-4-5kg-bottles-83635?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_content=ybw&s=09

 

[GUMPY]

Yes they have. However I switched to Flogas Lite earlier, less weight to cart about. It depends on the designer of your gas locker whether the Lite will fit or not 🤔😲

[magpie patrick]

That would be good! Would save me a messy refit of Juno's gas locker....

[Just Heaven]

5 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Yes they have. However I switched to Flogas Lite earlier, less weight to cart about. It depends on the designer of your gas locker whether the Lite will fit or not 🤔😲

 

I need it for the camper not the boat and I don't think the flogas lite will fit.

 

 

[MtB]

It always seemed difficult to imagine how Calor would ever make the withdrawal of 3.9kg propane and 4.5kg butane stick, with absolutely no practical alternative. 

[rusty69]

Having announced they were phasing it out, and making it nigh on impossible for their customers to obtain a refill for a number of years, I too have made alternative arrangements. 

 

The smaller calor bottles I will retain. They are welcome to come and collect them should they wish. 

 

Although it's probably a good thing they did a u turn, the company treated their customers very poorly imo, and probably underestimated the impact the withdrawal of the smaller bottles might have. 

[GUMPY]

38 minutes ago, Just Heaven said:

 

I need it for the camper not the boat and I don't think the flogas lite will fit.

 

 

I guessed that hence my comment about the designer of the gas locker 😄

Flogas lite are slightly fatter than the 3.9/6kg bottles 

 

 

27 minutes ago, MtB said:

It always seemed difficult to imagine how Calor would ever make the withdrawal of 3.9kg propane and 4.5kg butane stick, with absolutely no practical alternative. 

Calor are not the only supplier of small gas bottles.

3.9kg Flogas have always been available.

Not the same as the Flogas lite😱

Edited December 30, 2023 by GUMPY

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Calor are not the only supplier of small gas bottles.

3.9kg Flogas have always been available.

Not the same as the Flogas lite😱

 

Available is stretching a point.

 

Here is a list of all the canalside businesses stocking Flogas:

 

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[magpie patrick]

1 hour ago, GUMPY said:

I guessed that hence my comment about the designer of the gas locker 😄

Flogas lite are slightly fatter than the 3.9/6kg bottles 

 

 

Calor are not the only supplier of small gas bottles.

3.9kg Flogas have always been available.

Not the same as the Flogas lite😱

 

52 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Available is stretching a point.

 

Here is a list of all the canalside businesses stocking Flogas:

 

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It's also stretching a point to say they're available roadside! I've been trying to get them for over a year from my local stockist. 

 

I've managed so far as the boatyard where I more Juno sold me their last 3.9kg to tide me over whilst I found an alternative. 

[Chris Lowe]

I've got a couple of 4.5kg Butane bottles if anyone wants them, I used them for my camping cooker but have switched to Camping Gaz.

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Although it's probably a good thing they did a u turn, the company treated their customers very poorly imo, and probably underestimated the impact the withdrawal of the smaller bottles might have. 

 

Calor always have treated their customers with utter distain. Given there must be thousands of very expensive and very young caravans out there (in addition to many boats) that were designed and constructed to take 4.5kg butane bottles I bet there have been a few influential and forceful owners making life for Calor bosses quite difficult over this. Hence the rowing-back on the decision, and all the PR waffle surrounding it. 

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

6 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 

 

It's also stretching a point to say they're available roadside! I've been trying to get them for over a year from my local stockist. 

 

I've managed so far as the boatyard where I more Juno sold me their last 3.9kg to tide me over whilst I found an alternative. 

Camping Gaz is the other alternative for smaller bottles but they are stupidly expensive. Well over £40 now for a 2.7kg bottle!

[magnetman]

I expect quite a few people have bought POL to POL hoses and refill from larger bottles. 

[rusty69]

I did. They are a right Palin in the arse

Edited December 30, 2023 by rusty69

[MtB]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I expect quite a few people have bought POL to POL hoses and refill from larger bottles. 

 

You can only ever get one up to about half-full, apparently.

 

Not that I have ever tried, for the avoidance of doubt. Oh no. Definitely not. That would be illegal.

[magnetman]

Half full seems ideal given most people's way of using Boats. 

 

That would last ages and be nowhere near the danger point in terms of overfilling. 

 

Even if one could fill it more I would aim for half if doing this. 

Given the small size of the bottles they do seem to lend themselves to this and on balance they will probably tend to be used in Boats or vehicles which are not main residences so usage would tend to (not always) be quite low.

 

 

[MtB]

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Camping Gaz is the other alternative for smaller bottles but they are stupidly expensive. Well over £40 now for a 2.7kg bottle!

 

My local supplier charges £48 for a 2.7kg Camping Gaz refill, I just checked. And its butane!

 

They have 3.9kg Calor refills back on their website again too, £21. 

[magnetman]

If calor claim to own the gas bottles one does wonder what the unsurance situation would be there was a moderately dramatic incident around bottle integrity.

 

Would they be able to prove the bottle was filled at home or could they be liable? 

 

Might Calor have ended up liable for something if they removed the smaller bottles thereby encouraging non authorised filling. 

 

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Would they be able to prove the bottle was filled at home or could they be liable? 

 

I'd say there is zero risk of over-filling or over-pressuring a bottle filled at home using another bottle as donor, as the max pressure in the recipient bottle will only ever match that inside the donor bottle which will almost certainly have been correctly filled by Calor. (Unless bought from a rogue retailer who has been filling them from his bulk tank in the back yard.) 

 

A greater risk strikes me as the adaptors sold on ebay to fill standard bottles at a petrol station. I've never tried this so have no idea how the filler pump knows how full the bottle might be. 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Might Calor have ended up liable for something if they removed the smaller bottles thereby encouraging non authorised filling. 

 

 

On reflection I suspect a massive proliferation in non-authorised re-filling has probably been recorded, and pressure from the regulator bodies has been applied to Calor, leading to them restoring supply.

 

The risk in DIY refilling is not just in the DIY refiller doing it wrong, it is long term too as the gas bottles get inspected and pressure tested at the refill plant, and home-fillers won;t be doing that. It doesn't matter initially but as time passes and old bottles degrade, there is no mechanism to remove them from circulation.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by MtB
sp

[magnetman]

This is exactly what I was thinking. 

 

Calor 'own' the bottles (yeah right) and yes they do age. It would be virtually impossible to get them all back unless there was a financial incentive for people to return them. 

 

So in practical terms it doesn't really work to just suddenly stop. Phasing out over time makes more sense so they can take back older bottles. 

 

It is a shame for people who have butchered nice Boats in the meantime.

 

 

Maybe someone noticed an odd sales pattern in POL to POL hoses. 

 

I'm pretty sure Calor themselves do/did supply these.  

Like this 

 

https://appliances.calor.co.uk/essentials-0-75-30-pol-x-pol-armoured-hose.html

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I'm pretty sure Calor themselves do/did supply these.

 

They do indeed .................

 

Calor Essentials 0.75m (30") POL x POL Standard Hose | Hoses and Pigtails | Calor Gas Appliances

 

 

[magnetman]

I found an armoured one. 

Interesting they charge double to have a stainless braid over the pipe. I guess its mainly about making it rodent proof for unattended situations.

It could be a but gnawty if a rat ate the 'ose. 

[Alan de Enfield]

48 minutes ago, MtB said:

You can only ever get one up to about half-full, apparently.

 

You can get them virtually full by using a bigger cylinder (I use a 47kg) but, as the pressure drops in the big cylinder after a couple of refills the amoubt transferred does reduce.

 

I also fill my small camping/hiking 100 gram cylinders from 500gram cylinders - they are certainly much easier to refill as they fit in the freezer and turning them upside down is less of a problem.

 

 

[Mike Hurley]

In my part of the world you take your bottle to the local fuel station and get it filled. I have a 12kg bottle and i put about 10 euros at a time. Guy did tell me that the pump shuts off at 80% full, no idea how it knows that but LPG cars get refilled easy enough.

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

In my part of the world you take your bottle to the local fuel station and get it filled. I have a 12kg bottle and i put about 10 euros at a time. Guy did tell me that the pump shuts off at 80% full, no idea how it knows that but LPG cars get refilled easy enough.

 

The recommendation is to only fill to 80% to allow for pressure increasing if the cylinder / cartridge gets warm.

 

I weigh my cartridges when new (and full) and write it on the cartridge. 

When refilling I stand the cartridge on scales so can monitor the weight, (on the understanding that they were originally filled to 80%), when it gets to about the original weight I stop filling.

 

Cylinder nett weights are normally stamped on the cylinder or collar so it is easy to stand it on the scales and when you get to your 3.9/4.5kgs, or, it stops gas transfer you know it's as full as you are going to get.

 

As has been said earlier - you cannot overfill as the pressure will equalise between the cylinders at some level below the original fill pressure.

 

I sometimes also decant my diving cylinders (15 litre cylinders into 10 or 12 litre cylinders) which are at far, far, higher pressures (~3300 psi / 230 bar)

Edited December 30, 2023 by Alan de Enfield