Fire surround

[magnetman]

25mm air gap is tiny ! 

 

 

If I was doing an initial stove install on a steel boat which needed to be in a corner and had access to someone who can weld the ideal solution would be to build a hearth including the base and surround from 5mm steel. Weld or bolt it to the stringers then bolt the fire to the hearth. That would also provide some underfloor heating effect. Flooring goes around it. 

 

A bit of a job but would be nice then just paint the steel with heatproof paint. 

 

For the deck collar you want a welded-in collar of thick wall tube or a box made up and the hole diameter should be larger than the flue pipe. Then you drop the flue in and get a steel ring cut to size with the inside the size of the flue. This is then welded to the collar and holds the flue pipe central with an air gap. Silicone sealing collar above this. 

 

More difficult to have a removable external terminal so it depends how the boat is used. For a boat which is moored for winter it is pointless having a removable terminal anyway. They are a weakness. One of my boats has a box type collar and the terminal which is stainless is flanged and has a cone inside so when you fit it onto the collar there are 4 bolts to hold it in place. Removable but it is a solid stainless steel terminal. 

 

The other boat has a two piece swaged stainless flue so the external part is part of the main flue. That boat is moored up all winter. 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

25mm air gap is tiny ! 

 

 

If I was doing an initial stove install on a steel boat which needed to be in a corner and had access to someone who can weld the ideal solution would be to build a hearth including the base and surround from 5mm steel. Weld or bolt it to the stringers then bolt the fire to the hearth. That would also provide some underfloor heating effect. Flooring goes around it. 

 

A bit of a job but would be nice then just paint the steel with heatproof paint. 

 

But you are not a boat builder 'building to a price'.

 

There are many improvements that could be made building (any) boats but they would all 'cost'. Someone having their 1st boat built doesn't have the knowledge about what needs to be, or could be, improved and assume the boat builder is doing what should be done.

[jonathanA]

Actually what I picked up from the lindy lou report (apart from the tragic circumstances) was that the fitting of a smoke detector would undoubtedly have saved a life and that was borne out by the findings of the west midlands fire service who had also dealt with a number of boat fires. 

 

I was less than convinced by the report, that pyrolysis was a significant factor. 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, jonathanA said:

Actually what I picked up from the lindy lou report (apart from the tragic circumstances) was that the fitting of a smoke detector would undoubtedly have saved a life

 

After having 7 vodkas in the pub and then a half-bottle of Vodka ('a bottle between them')  I'm pretty sure that a smoke detector wouldn't have woken me up.

[Tonka]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But you are not a boat builder 'building to a price'.

 

There are many improvements that could be made building (any) boats but they would all 'cost'. Someone having their 1st boat built doesn't have the knowledge about what needs to be, or could be, improved and assume the boat builder is doing what should be done.

Also building a fire surround that suits your use of a fire may not suit the next owner. You may never overfire the fire where as the next owner could constantly 

[jonathanA]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

After having 7 vodkas in the pub and then a half-bottle of Vodka ('a bottle between them')  I'm pretty sure that a smoke detector wouldn't have woken me up.

very true Alan - me neither especially as I don t drink vodka. 🙂

[magnetman]

Just now, Tonka said:

Also building a fire surround that suits your use of a fire may not suit the next owner. You may never overfire the fire where as the next owner could constantly 

 

Yes good point but it could be best to cover the worst outcome. If the fire is left unattended then unexpected events could occur. For example if the sealing rope on one of the doors (another weakness) is in poor condition then accidental overfiring might happen even to someone who is careful. 

 

there is an argument for not having the fire in at night but it can be chilly in the morning ! DAMHIKT about zero degrees in here this morning. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A tragedy, and one that may have been avoided had the stove been fitted to the manufacturers instructions.

THE STOVE WAS NOT installed in accordance with the manufacturers instructions. It could hav easily been correctky installed but it wasn't.

Villager Stoves Owner’s Manual

The Owner’s Manual for the Puffin stove fitted on board Lindy Lou, states that it should be installed in accordance with BS 8303 and BS 6461, and by a competent person, in compliance with all national and local Building Regulations and codes of practice.  

I don't think a Narrowboat is big enough to do that

Edited December 6, 2023 by ditchcrawler

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I don't think a Narrowboat is big enough to do that

 

Probably not, but the manufacturer gives actjual dimensions for distances from walls etc which could have been met - but - yes it would intrude into the living space more.

Eg - the flue was 170mm from the wall - manufacturer spec 330mm, another dimesnsion was 60mm - manufacturer spec 300mm.

[ditchcrawler]

I had a friend come back to his boat to find it smoking from around the tiles, thankfully a few buckets of canal water stopped it. That was tiling on top of plywood by the boat builder, a well know volume builder at that.

[magnetman]

Another approach is to have a narrow fire. My fires are both 8 inches wide and produce about 3Kw. This would be adequate for narrow boat cabins. 

 

Nobody is making them as far as I can see. They need to be tall in order to fit sensible amounts of fuel in. 

 

Both custom one-orf designs. 

 

Having an 8 inch wide fire means more air gap available. 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by magnetman

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

Another approach is to have a narrow fire. My fires are both 8 inches wide and produce about 3Kw. This would be adequate for narrow boat cabins. 

 

We fitted a 'Pipsqueak' small 3kw stove in our NB.

 

Not exactly a 'log-burner' more a 'twig-burner', with a 4" x 4" door, but 10 lumps of smokeless kept it in overnight.

 

Height 440mm
Width 310mm base
200mm stove
Depth 380mm base
180mm stove
Flue size 80mm

 

Pipsqueak Mini Wood Burning Bell Tent Stove - savvysurf.co.uk

 

 

[magnetman]

I'm surprised that puts out 3Kw. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm surprised that puts out 3Kw. 

 

 

 

Thats what the manufacturer claims - I have no idea if it achieves that, but, we did a 'speriment.

 

Loaded it up to see how hot we could get the boat at waist height (middle between head height and foot height), once we got to over 50C we had to give up as it was a struggle to breathe, no idea what the temp was at head height, opened the windows and doors and let it burn down.

 

Phew - wot a scorcher !

[magnetman]

 

maybe I misunderestimated the heat output of mine. It could be more like 4Kw. Certainly can get the cabin much too warm for comfort even when its below freezing outside. Thats a cabin size of about 12ftx9ft. Full air from all the intakes its crazy !

 

 

We did put a grate in there (inlet strainer from a Castoldi waterjet) so it will also burn coal and stay in for about 12 hours if needed. It even has a stainless tube through it for back boiler not that I use it. 

 

Been a good fire if anyone is thinking of a DIY stove from 8 inch box section I'm happy to share details which worked very well. 

 

I even insisted the front half of the top lifts orf for larger logs. Not needed in the event as the porthole is big enough. 

 

I was pleased with the blowtorch hole as it also works nicely for directing draught onto the wood. Like a half way between primary (bottom) and preheated secondary (top) air. 

 

 

 

 

 

I am seriously considering cutting out a section of the cabin sole (floor) and letting in a thick steel plate at the same level welded to some bearers. The fire sitting on that would be a lot nicer than on a 2 inch thick piece of paving.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the plate in the floor was finned beneath by welding on some bars it could have an bilge drying effect not that the bilge is wet but never any harm to put some heat down there. 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by magnetman

[Tonka]

21 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

maybe I misunderestimated the heat output of mine. It could be more like 4Kw. Certainly can get the cabin much too warm for comfort even when its below freezing outside. Thats a cabin size of about 12ftx9ft. Full air from all the intakes its crazy !

 

 

We did put a grate in there (inlet strainer from a Castoldi waterjet) so it will also burn coal and stay in for about 12 hours if needed. It even has a stainless tube through it for back boiler not that I use it. 

 

Been a good fire if anyone is thinking of a DIY stove from 8 inch box section I'm happy to share details which worked very well. 

 

I even insisted the front half of the top lifts orf for larger logs. Not needed in the event as the porthole is big enough. 

 

I was pleased with the blowtorch hole as it also works nicely for directing draught onto the wood. Like a half way between primary (bottom) and preheated secondary (top) air. 

 

 

 

 

 

I am seriously considering cutting out a section of the cabin sole (floor) and letting in a thick steel plate at the same level welded to some bearers. The fire sitting on that would be a lot nicer than on a 2 inch thick piece of paving.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the plate in the floor was finned beneath by welding on some bars it could have an bilge drying effect not that the bilge is wet but never any harm to put some heat down there. 

 

 

Wonder what the insurance company would say if you ever had to claim for a fire caused by a home made stove

[magnetman]

12 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Wonder what the insurance company would say if you ever had to claim for a fire caused by a home made stove

That could be interesting if damage was caused to others. I've always had 3rd party unsurance not interested in any other sort but yes it is an good point. 

 

 

Hopefully the boat doesn't go up in smoke and damage someone else's gear. 

 

That would be a bit bad. 

 

 

it could get extra complicated if it happened to occur when a large group of schoolkids were out trespassing on private land at the same time as a party of friends were out Boating and got a bit close to the offending Boat On Fire in the winter despite the social distancing warning signs..

 

Scorchio! 

 

Not funny though. Large groups of people burning to death in terrible infernos is never funny especially when there is a Boat being decomposed by the heat. 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by magnetman

[Peanut]

There is the Dickinsons Newport stove. Its small, expensive, and slightly restricted in fuel, though it says elswhere it can burn coal.

 

Width: 7.88″
Height: 14.7″
Depth: 10″
Weight: 15 lbs

Heat Output (approx):
Low: 3000 BTU  (0.8kW)
High: 8000 BTU  (2.3kW

 

https://www.kuranda.co.uk/product/newport-solid-fuel-heater/

 

The Newport Solid Fuel Heater by Dickinson Marine is a small stainless steel solid fuel heater designed for casual use ideal for boats 20-25ft. This heater burns one to two 1” thick wood or presto log, a handful of charcoal briquettes. Removable ash drawer and damper control.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Peanut
added info

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Peanut said:

There is the Dickinsons Newport stove. Its small, expensive, and slightly restricted in fuel, though it says elswhere it can burn coal.

 

Width: 7.88″
Height: 14.7″
Depth: 10″
Weight: 15 lbs

Heat Output (approx):
Low: 3000 BTU  (0.8kW)
High: 8000 BTU  (2.3kW

 

https://www.kuranda.co.uk/product/newport-solid-fuel-heater/

 

The Newport Solid Fuel Heater by Dickinson Marine is a small stainless steel solid fuel heater designed for casual use ideal for boats 20-25ft. This heater burns one to two 1” thick wood or presto log, a handful of charcoal briquettes. Removable ash drawer and damper control.

It also requires 8" clearance either side, so effectively still takes up quite a lot of space.

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Peanut said:

There is the Dickinsons Newport stove. Its small, expensive, and slightly restricted in fuel, though it says elswhere it can burn coal.

 

Width: 7.88″
Height: 14.7″
Depth: 10″
Weight: 15 lbs

Heat Output (approx):
Low: 3000 BTU  (0.8kW)
High: 8000 BTU  (2.3kW

 

https://www.kuranda.co.uk/product/newport-solid-fuel-heater/

 

The Newport Solid Fuel Heater by Dickinson Marine is a small stainless steel solid fuel heater designed for casual use ideal for boats 20-25ft. This heater burns one to two 1” thick wood or presto log, a handful of charcoal briquettes. Removable ash drawer and damper control.

 

Its a nice little item. I once spotted one in a boatyard where the bloke was refitting the boat. I asked if he wanted me to buy it but he was not keen. 

 

I probably wouldn't have used it just always had a bit of a fetish about heaters for very small spaces. My boat was a lot bigger than his so probably good that he kept it ! 

 

 

Cor 2Kw thats going to be shifting a bit of heat!! 

 

[Tonka]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Its a nice little item. I once spotted one in a boatyard where the bloke was refitting the boat. I asked if he wanted me to buy it but he was not keen. 

 

I probably wouldn't have used it just always had a bit of a fetish about heaters for very small spaces. My boat was a lot bigger than his so probably good that he kept it ! 

 

 

Cor 2Kw thats going to be shifting a bit of heat!! 

 

Ekol Stoves Ltd. (defrastoves.com) do an Apple Pie 4.1 KW

[magnetman]

Interesting item. Yes when I discussed my fire (with some tweaks to make it attractive for retail although less effective) with the bloke who helped me to make it the consensus was it would be around the £1k mark if it went through all the defra and selling to customers thing.

 

Nobody is going to spend that much on a small fire for a boat. There are plenty of fires a lot cheaper than that. 

 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

the consensus was it would be around the £1k mark if it went through all the defra and selling to customers thing.

 

Nobody is going to spend that much on a small fire for a boat

I note that the Pipsqueak is not approved because they say they can't afford to test it, so it is not sold for use in homes.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

We fitted a 'Pipsqueak' small 3kw stove in our NB.

 

Not exactly a 'log-burner' more a 'twig-burner', with a 4" x 4" door, but 10 lumps of smokeless kept it in overnight.

 

Height 440mm
Width 310mm base
200mm stove
Depth 380mm base
180mm stove
Flue size 80mm

 

Pipsqueak Mini Wood Burning Bell Tent Stove - savvysurf.co.uk

 

 

That looks like it’s where the Porta-Potti should be, maybe one of the most ugliest fire instalments I’ve seen on a boat to be honest. Just doesn’t look worth the effort with that (?)double skinned flue.

Edited December 6, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

That looks like it’s where the Porta-Potti should be, maybe one of the most ugliest fire instalments I’ve seen on a boat to be honest.

 

It was originally a wardrobe, and on a 30' boat there are not a lot of options when you have a toilet and shower room, a galley, a permanent bed and a saloon.