Reginox Ceramic or other sink options

[David Schweizer]

21 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Not much worktop left after cutting the hole. The front needs to overhang the base unit too.  Would you be better with a smaller sink?

 

Tell me about it. there was a huge amount of timber left over when my daughter had a new worktop fitted to her central island. In hindsight, I somewhat foolishly, agreed to make a couple of coffee table tops from the surplus timber, that is when I discovered what rubbish rainforest hardwood worktops are. The top and edges looked fine, but the interior was made up from random sized bits with many air gaps between the pieces of timber, plus filler  in the larger gaps. Eventually I managed to make two reasonabley good tops, but if anyone ever asked me again what I could do with leftover work top timber , I would suggest chopping it up and putting it in the woodburning stove.

[LadyG]

Boatfitter has been with notebook and steel tape, no major probs identified.

Costs to follow, possibly starting next week!

He uses Howdens for cabinetry and timber suppliers for worktops, he has a workshop, and is confident it will all look great, two weeks down the line, fingers crossed.

He has been carefully cross examined by myself, and taken it all in his stride

Edited November 6, 2023 by LadyG

[magnetman]

51 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

Tell me about it. there was a huge amount of timber left over when my daughter had a new worktop fitted to her central island. In hindsight, I somewhat foolishly, agreed to make a couple of coffee table tops from the surplus timber, that is when I discovered what rubbish rainforest hardwood worktops are. The top and edges looked fine, but the interior was made up from random sized bits with many air gaps between the pieces of timber, plus filler  in the larger gaps. Eventually I managed to make two reasonabley good tops, but if anyone ever asked me again what I could do with leftover work top timber , I would suggest chopping it up and putting it in the woodburning stove.

It does make great firewood. 

 

 

[LadyG]

On 05/11/2023 at 12:15, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Is there room between the top of the cupboard carcass & under the gunwales if you are intending to replace a 25mm thick worktop with a 40mm one ?

 

Have you got a 15mm+ gap under the gunwales currently, or, is the worktop 'tight' up to the gunwales ?

You might need to cut your cupboard height down by 15mm - turning a simple cheap job into a more complicated expensive job.

I'm now resigned to forking out a few £K, but at least it will be a proper job and not a quick refurb. The main reason i initially wanted a quick fix was the competence of most folks who work on boats. 

The only boat fitter (in Thorne) wanted £12K, and no liveaboard. Not many suggestions either.

Most others are just people who have fitted out their own boat, and though they have some skills and tools, I knew I needed someone of professional standard, almost certainly with a workshop.

 

[truckcab79]

20 hours ago, LadyG said:

Boatfitter has been with notebook and steel tape, no major probs identified.

Costs to follow, possibly starting next week!

He uses Howdens for cabinetry and timber suppliers for worktops, he has a workshop, and is confident it will all look great, two weeks down the line, fingers crossed.

He has been carefully cross examined by myself, and taken it all in his stride

If he has a Howdens account then you should just buy their 27mm oak worktops. They do a 40mm if you want thicker.  If you have to keep to 25mm just router the back edge to fit under the gunwhale.  Your money but I can’t think of any reason to have a bespoke timber worktop made from what you describe.  The dimensions are only an issue for the fitter while he’s cutting.   All the delicate areas need to be supported.  Once  installed it’s all supported by your cabinets unless you have any open spans. 
 

As to the other comments.  There are better laminates available now but they still look like laminates.  Must clients go for bespoke quartz tops which is fine by me as someone else has to template and fit them.  
 

Timber is now much less popular but looks lovely.  It needs to be installed properly and looked after to avoid issues with water ingress. But no reason it shouldn’t look brand new forever if you look after it.  
 

Old school science lab desks are lovely but people woke up to their value years as supplies dried up so not a cheap option anymore. Nice though.  

On 05/11/2023 at 12:05, LadyG said:

That is the theory, however I will be looking for advice , as I am project manager,  and have to come up with a working design.

I feel the cut out is goiing to weaken the worktop, and there is a similar problem on the second worktop which has a fixed Thetford cooker.

My fitter has good woodworking skills and has an almost identical design on his own boat.

It's a lot of money, and several real opportunities for gross errors.

 

With respect there is nothing to project manage here.  Tell them the worktop you want and the sink etc that you want fitted. The rest is their job. The risk is theirs as is the responsibility for letting you know if it can’t be done. Any decent kitchen fitter will do this with their eyes closed.  

21 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

 

Tell me about it. there was a huge amount of timber left over when my daughter had a new worktop fitted to her central island. In hindsight, I somewhat foolishly, agreed to make a couple of coffee table tops from the surplus timber, that is when I discovered what rubbish rainforest hardwood worktops are. The top and edges looked fine, but the interior was made up from random sized bits with many air gaps between the pieces of timber, plus filler  in the larger gaps. Eventually I managed to make two reasonabley good tops, but if anyone ever asked me again what I could do with leftover work top timber , I would suggest chopping it up and putting it in the woodburning stove.

Good quality ones make excellent chopping boards. I make them for clients as a thankyou gift.  It also means that they have my company logo in their kitchen forever. 😉

[LadyG]

OK, well what I want is a curve where the cooker is, at the moment it looks like two triangular pieces of wood on either side of the cooker lid, not pretty.

The sink side is rectangular, 165mm long so no problem with the worktop,  I've selected the 850 ceramic sink, there will be glossy doors and drawers, matching glossy sheets to make it all shiny snd easy clean.

I have already trimmed my ply panels on the cabin with Ameranican oak, which is warmer than my view of English oak. Maybe Howdens have American oak worktops, which are red rather than brown 

Fitter is visiting Howdens this week, will ask him to check the

oak worktops, he fears that 25mm for the dining table will warp if solid,which i assume is staved,  like planks rather than small blocks of wood 

 

[truckcab79]

Have a look at howdens site.  You can view it but you just won’t see prices unless you’re trade.  Better still go and look at the samples in store if you can.  They only sell unfinished but they can supply various tinted oils to get the effect you like. 
 

Don’t worry too much about American or English / European.  Strictly speaking English is the darker of the two but the labelling of various ‘oaks’ in recent years has been a bit liberal so it’s difficult to know what you’re actually getting.  Worktops generally will just be generic ‘oak’. 

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

OK, well what I want is a curve where the cooker is, at the moment it looks like two triangular pieces of wood on either side of the cooker lid, not pretty.

The sink side is rectangular, 165mm long so no problem with the worktop,  I've selected the 850 ceramic sink, there will be glossy doors and drawers, matching glossy sheets to make it all shiny snd easy clean.

I have already trimmed my ply panels on the cabin with Ameranican oak, which is warmer than my view of English oak. Maybe Howdens have American oak worktops, which are red rather than brown 

Fitter is visiting Howdens this week, will ask him to check the

oak worktops, he fears that 25mm for the dining table will warp if solid,which i assume is staved,  like planks rather than small blocks of wood 

 

Heck of a tiny sink.

 

You really must get to grips with measuring things.

[David Schweizer]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

OK, well what I want is a curve where the cooker is, at the moment it looks like two triangular pieces of wood on either side of the cooker lid, not pretty.

The sink side is rectangular, 165mm long so no problem with the worktop,  I've selected the 850 ceramic sink, there will be glossy doors and drawers, matching glossy sheets to make it all shiny snd easy clean.

I have already trimmed my ply panels on the cabin with Ameranican oak, which is warmer than my view of English oak. Maybe Howdens have American oak worktops, which are red rather than brown 

Fitter is visiting Howdens this week, will ask him to check the

oak worktops, he fears that 25mm for the dining table will warp if solid,which i assume is staved,  like planks rather than small blocks of wood 

 

 

European Oak timber is actually a darker colour than American Oak, which is often referred to as White oak, because of it's lighter colour. However, it is sometimes referred to as Red Oak because that is the name of the tree, from which it comes, named Red after the colour the leaves turn in Autumn. American Oak has a straighter grain than European Oak and is often devoid if any Medulary Rays. A not unattractive wood, but I much prefer European (preferrably English) Oak which is a beautiful timber, and which mellows to a wonderful deep honey colour in time.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by David Schweizer

[LadyG]

16 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Heck of a tiny sink.

 

You really must get to grips with measuring things.

 

16 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Heck of a tiny sink.

 

You really must get to grips with measuring things.

The fitter measured the sink worktop at 165, that is cm, so 1650mm, the sink is on the website at 850mm by 500mm.

I was against oak worktops because English oak will blacken and is not used in boatbuilding, however I expect Howdens have found it satisfactory as it is the only wood they sell, no mention of whether it is English or American, I suspect it will be American . They suggest the colour can be changed by the oil.

They only have 40mm thickness, on the website , I assume they will be stable. I'm now thinking two kitchen worktops plus the dining table all matching.

Edited November 8, 2023 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

38 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The fitter measured the sink worktop at 165, that is cm, so 1650mm,

 

That is not what you said earlier :

 

18 hours ago, LadyG said:

The sink side is rectangular, 165mm long ..............

 

 

Hence the comment (I'm sure it was in jest)

 

 

16 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Heck of a tiny sink.

 

You really must get to grips with measuring things.

 

[truckcab79]

38 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

The fitter measured the sink worktop at 165, that is cm, so 1650mm, the sink is on the website at 850mm by 500mm.

I was against oak worktops because English oak will blacken and is not used in boatbuilding, however I expect Howdens have found it satisfactory as it is the only wood they sell, no mention of whether it is English or American, I suspect it will be American . They suggest the colour can be changed by the oil.

They only have 40mm thickness, on the website , I assume they will be stable. I'm now thinking two kitchen worktops plus the dining table all matching.

Howdens do a 27mm worktop if that’s what you need. I’ve just ordered a load of them. Ask your fitter.  
 

That said if you have  space for a 40mm then they do look lovely.  
 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Howdens do a 27mm worktop if that’s what you need. I’ve just ordered a load of them. Ask your fitter.  
 

That said if you have  space for a 40mm then they do look lovely.  
 

 

 

 

She did say early in the thread that the sink required a 40mm worktop - but never answered the question as to if this would fit onto the carcases and still go below the gunwales (apparently - currently a 25mm worktop fitted)

[truckcab79]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

She did say early in the thread that the sink required a 40mm worktop - but never answered the question as to if this would fit onto the carcases and still go below the gunwales (apparently - currently a 25mm worktop fitted)

She did but I can’t think of a reason why the sink would dictate the worktop depth.  Too limiting for manufacturers given that the majority of worktops currently fitted are 20mm quartz type. 
 

In the unlikely instance that it’s a strength issue or it’s an undermount then normal practice is to fit purpose made support bars under, so that there is no weight on the worktop at all. 
 

Only other reason would be if you need the sink lifted that 15mm because it or it’s waste will foul something underneath.  
 

Seems unduly complicated and I suspect assumptions are being made.  As I said earlier. Give the fitter Instruction that you want X worktop and X sink and X tap and leave the rest to him. If he is an actual kitchen fitter he’ll just get on with it or advise a better solution.  
 

If he’s just some bloke who does a bit of woodwork then he may not have the first clue until he’s got himself in too deep. In which case the best scenario is to find someone else, not have the client take responsibility for it.  That’ll just lead to him putting the onus on client instruction if it looks like a dogs dinner. ‘Well that’s what you asked me to do’. 😂

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Seems unduly complicated and I suspect assumptions are being made.  

 

You've not previously been involved in LadyGs activities have you.

 

She must have a 'disaster a week', - I antipate that this one will follow previous examples of tradesmen being asked to do work for her :

1) Not turning up

2) Walking off the job part way thru, after being told how to do the job

3) Not doing the job properly so were not paid

etc

etc

 

 

 

[truckcab79]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You've not previously been involved in LadyGs activities have you.

 

She must have a 'disaster a week', - I antipate that this one will follow previous examples of tradesmen being asked to do work for her :

1) Not turning up

2) Walking off the job part way thru, after being told how to do the job

3) Not doing the job properly so were not paid

etc

etc

 

 

 

Only that I recall a recent thread about buying timber sheets or something.  Seemed unduly complicated then. 
 

To be honest if a client of mine wanted to be this involved I’d not take the job😂. You pay people for their expertise and knowledge not just so you can tell them how to do it.
 

As it happens my current client is a regular.  I’m in their property for two weeks. They do this two or three times a year. I have keys to their place. They go away on holiday and I come in and sort everything while they’re gone, from the vaguest of briefs.  Then they come back, pay me a large chunk of money, query nothing and book me for their next trip.  Ideal client.  👍😂

[LadyG]

I've always paid on the dot for work done, however I have subsequently had to deal with issues due to work done by casual labour, for want of a better word and for this reason I am cautious about any workman.

It's taken me four years to find someone who is a professional, good with woodwork and boat maintenance.

Added bonus is that his own galley is lovely, my new one will be very similar, so we are on the same hymn sheet from day one 

 

[MrsM]

47 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Only that I recall a recent thread about buying timber sheets or something.  Seemed unduly complicated then. 
 

To be honest if a client of mine wanted to be this involved I’d not take the job😂. You pay people for their expertise and knowledge not just so you can tell them how to do it.
 

As it happens my current client is a regular.  I’m in their property for two weeks. They do this two or three times a year. I have keys to their place. They go away on holiday and I come in and sort everything while they’re gone, from the vaguest of briefs.  Then they come back, pay me a large chunk of money, query nothing and book me for their next trip.  Ideal client.  👍😂

Sounds like you are going to have a great future as a boat kitchen fitter/refitter!

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

She did say early in the thread that the sink required a 40mm worktop - but never answered the question as to if this would fit onto the carcases and still go below the gunwales (apparently - currently a 25mm worktop fitted)

There is no particular problem with 40mm worktops as far as am aware, the whole galley will be refitted, but I am confident the work will be ace.

So far I have had a two discussions with the fitter, we are agreed on the style. Hopefully he will come up with a nice design, with a ball park costing. 

PS the new fridge, CRX80 is up and running, quietly 🤫 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by LadyG

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

 

The fitter measured the sink worktop at 165, that is cm, so 1650mm, the sink is on the website at 850mm by 500mm.

I was against oak worktops because English oak will blacken and is not used in boatbuilding, however I expect Howdens have found it satisfactory as it is the only wood they sell, no mention of whether it is English or American, I suspect it will be American . They suggest the colour can be changed by the oil.

They only have 40mm thickness, on the website , I assume they will be stable. I'm now thinking two kitchen worktops plus the dining table all matching.

 

I am not sure where you get your information from, but European Oak has been used, and is still used, for boatbuilding (including Narrowboats) for centuries. As for blackening, it is true that American Oak will  blacken less than European Oak beacuase it contains less tannin. However, American Oak is far more water absorbant than European Oak, and is not really suitable for boatbuilding, or for any othe outdoor application. Where it excells is as a timber for Furniture and indoor panelling etc.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You've not previously been involved in LadyGs activities have you.

 

She must have a 'disaster a week', - I antipate that this one will follow previous examples of tradesmen being asked to do work for her :

1) Not turning up

2) Walking off the job part way thru, after being told how to do the job

3) Not doing the job properly so were not paid

etc

etc

 

 

And you just can't resist repeatedly sniping at her, can you?

[truckcab79]

12 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Sounds like you are going to have a great future as a boat kitchen fitter/refitter!

 

Thanks. I’ll be happy just to find the time to do my own. 
 

Im new to all this but already feel that there’s a lot of nonsense talked about having to find someone who specialise is boats for stuff. Most of it doesn’t matter what the location is as far as I can see…..except tradesmen won’t want to drag their gear half a mile down a towpath or marina when there are so many easier jobs to go to. 😂

 

As far as the actually work is concerned it’s irrelevant. Kitchens are always a lot of work as all of the finishing is bespoke if you want it to look ‘fitted’. I’ve just completed one where the designer deliberately ignored the boxing out in the room which contained all of the property’s gas water and electric.  Client had told him but his response was ‘don’t worry the fitter will sort it’.  Meant he could sell a few extra cabinets.   Also meant I had to remake all of the units on that section. When it’s done you’d never know. That’s what you pay for. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by truckcab79

[David Schweizer]

3 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

 

Thanks. I’ll be happy just to find the time to do my own. 
 

Im new to all this but already feel that there’s a lot of nonsense talked about having to find someone who specialise is boats for stuff. Most of it doesn’t matter what the location is as far as I can see…..except tradesmen won’t want to drag their gear half a mile down a towpath or marina when there are so many easier jobs to go to. 😂

 

As far as the actually work is concerned it’s irrelevant. Kitchens are always a lot of work as all of the finishing is bespoke if you want it to look ‘fitted’. I’ve just completed one where the designer deliberately ignored the boxing out in the room which contained all of the property’s gas water and electric.  Client had told him but his response was ‘don’t worry the fitter will sort it’.  Meant he could sell a few extra cabinets.   Also meant I had to remake all of the units on that section. When it’s done you’d never know. That’s what you pay for. 

 

I am assuming that you have never done any boat fitting or you would be a little more circumspect about it. The first thing you will discover will be that none of the "walls" are flat or perpendicular, you will not find a spirit level or plumbline of much any use. and will need to invest in a couple of roofers squares, hoping that the floors are flat and level. I re-fitted my boat including a fitted galley, making all the units in my workshop at home, Large sheets of cardboard are  the main essential as all the unit building will need to preceeded by making templates. It all takes a lot more time, and having also fitted a full kitchen in my house, I know which job was easier.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by David Schweizer

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

Only that I recall a recent thread about buying timber sheets or something.  Seemed unduly complicated then. 
 

To be honest if a client of mine wanted to be this involved I’d not take the job😂. You pay people for their expertise and knowledge not just so you can tell them how to do it.
 

As it happens my current client is a regular.  I’m in their property for two weeks. They do this two or three times a year. I have keys to their place. They go away on holiday and I come in and sort everything while they’re gone, from the vaguest of briefs.  Then they come back, pay me a large chunk of money, query nothing and book me for their next trip.  Ideal client.  👍😂

When I had a house I had a kitchen fitter, I  chose the worktops and cabinets, these are all standard sizes. Plug and play. Not much to discuss.

Nothing on a boat galley is standard, fitter is using Howdens cabinets, but as far as I can work out every one will have to be adapted. There won't be much left of the original cabinetry.

I have tried to get kitchen companies interested, but they want to sell lots of cabinets, and worktops plus extras.  They are absolutely not interested in small jobs which depend on fitting skills. Mention narrowboat and the shutters go down.  

[truckcab79]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

 

I am assuming that you have never done any boat fitting or you would be a little more circumspect about it. The first thing you will discover will be that none of the "walls" are flat or perpendicular, you will not find a spirit level or plumbline of much any use. and will need to invest in a couple of roofers squares, hoping that the floors are flat and level. I re-fitted my boat including a fitted galley, making all the units in my workshop at home, Large sheets of cardboard are  the main essential as all the unit building will need to preceeded by making templates. It all takes a lot more time, and having also fitted a full kitchen in my house, I know which job was easier.

 

 

 

Nothing in any kitchen or bathroom is square and I’ve fitted dozens of both. Honestly doesn’t matter.  
 

For a boat build, where it matters, you just pick a datum. The floor being the obvious one.  Your cabinets, kitchen, whatever will all be 90° to that.  For the walls you just need to learn how to align and scribe 
 

Incidentally if you want to template something larger then give up on your cardboard. Far too much flex in it. Cut yourself a load of strips of 4/6mm ply.  Align along your edges, cutting to length as you go.  Mitre glue all the overlaps as you progress. Lift it away and you have a perfect rigid template of your space.  
 

And buy yourself a laser.  £25 one off Amazon will be good enough. Just make sure you can lock the line once its self-levelled then you can move  it around and know that it’s 90° to whatever you’re moving it to. 
 

It’s just cabinet building, not witchcraft.  😉Learn the tricks and most of its is pretty simple.  Much more about planning and forethought than skill.  

28 minutes ago, LadyG said:

When I had a house I had a kitchen fitter, I  chose the worktops and cabinets, these are all standard sizes. Plug and play. Not much to discuss.

Nothing on a boat galley is standard, fitter is using Howdens cabinets, but as far as I can work out every one will have to be adapted. There won't be much left of the original cabinetry.

I have tried to get kitchen companies interested, but they want to sell lots of cabinets, and worktops plus extras.  They are absolutely not interested in small jobs which depend on fitting skills. Mention narrowboat and the shutters go down.  

You need to shop at my Howdens.  They were falling over themselves to be involved in a boat build.  😂
 

Kitchens, wardrobes, etc are all made up of modular units and the only clever bit and the bit that makes it look finished and fitted  are basically just the ends.

 

Your fitter if he has any sense will buy the Howdens flat-pack range. Partly because the built stuff might not go through your door, but also as it’ll be easier to alter.  Pretty much the only thing he’ll really need to do assuming you don’t need it is run the carcass sides and base through the table saw to lose most of the 70mm service void.  Most likely you won’t need it or not badly enough to give up that space on a boat. Depends how tight for space you are.  You’ll then have all the useable space of the cabinets on less floor space space (unless you really need the full depth worktop), in which case you can skip that bit. 
 

He won’t need to alter every unit.  You’re not going to scribe every cabinet in to the wall if it’s then hidden by the end panel. Waste of time.  
 

Other than that it’s just down to picking from the huge range of options to get the best fit and functionality for you, and not waste space.  Then there’s a decor end panel or two which may or may not need to be scribed to fill whatever space you have left if it’s not big enough for a cabinet. 

 

It’s really not that complicated though we’ve all done our fair bit of sucking air over teeth to pretend it is.  😂

Edited November 8, 2023 by truckcab79