Sykes Univac centrifugal pump.

[GBW]

I attempt to support the Hereford & Gloucester Canal Trust in their ambitions to recreate the 34 mile link.  (This is not a trivial aim!).

Our local stretch in Newent has reached a modest milestone with a short stretch now in water.  It is filled from a local source using a Lister powered centrifugal pump.  The engine is responding well to restoration but the pump seals have failed.

The problem is that it has proved impossible to find drawings of said pump to understand the sealing arrangements.

I can manufacture the parts but not without drawings.

Anyone help please?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

We moderators weren't sure where to move this topic, as there isn't a canal restoration equipment section for some inexplicable reason. Hopefully the experts can help the H&GCT out. Got a soft spot for this canal, having partly grown up in Hereford. PM sent.

[Ken X]

Do you have photos?

Edited October 24, 2023 by Ken X
Didn't read title properly.

[magnetman]

Sykes Univac according to the thread title. 

 

I wonder if Stationary engine forums might know about this sort of thing. 

[Tracy D'arth]

Sykes are still making pumps, have you asked them?

 

https://www.oasissykes.com/products.html

 

 

[magnetman]

Also which seals? A centrifugal pump has fewer seals than a pump with valves. Presumably there will be a shaft seal or two and a gasket between the two parts of the main body. 

 

It seems to me that disassembly would provide some insight. 

 

If it is a gasket then it is easy to make a replacement. If it is a plain bearing type of seal on the shaft it is more difficult but still seems relatively straightforward to sort out if you can get the thing into pieces on the bench .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

If it is anything like the Sykes pump we had for pump outs, it is a complex thing with a vane type vacuum pump to do the priming, so that has seals as well. However, like Magnetman, I would expect a centrifugal pump to use simple seals on the shaft.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[jonathanA]

i used to use some very old lister diesel powered water pumps. they were very simple affairs, can't remember who made the pump bit, but I remember being convinced the 3" one was knackered and a couple of us stripped it down - no valves just a cast impeller in a casting - couldn't find anything wrong.  it turned out they just needed priming even to lift water a couple of feet  and could only pump into quite a small head of water  - say 10ft lift maybe ?  they would pump horizontally for miles all day long.  but useless if you needed to get water up a hill.  

We got fed up of them being temperamental to start and prime and bought an ex fire brigade coventry climax 'portable' pump which was electric start, self priming (via exhaust diverter) and altogether more theatrical, but was only good for clean water.  the water jet was great for knocking over small children I was told 🙂

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by jonathanA
sp

[GBW]

I am very much an outsider but I will attempt to find some more details, sizes and photos.  It has a vacuum pump and electric start.

I have seen it working, lifting around 8 feet and an impressive output.

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I'll pass them on.

Despite the enormity of the task, the volunteers are not overawed accepting that it will be their grandchildren who may see their ultimate rewards.

The canal having been taken over by a railway company, it passes through Newent station and there are plans to install an inclined plane to access it and cross a main road.

The other little problem is the tunnel under the M50.

[DHutch]

A contact of mine with experience of pumps has made the below comment:

 

"Sykes made about 10 different CF pumps in 4 sizes over a 50 year period, the poster hasn’t given any details, but I’m guessing he is talking about the bellows seal behind the impeller, if not fitted skilfully it will leak like a sieve."

 

 

Daniel

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, DHutch said:

A contact of mine with experience of pumps has made the below comment:

 

"Sykes made about 10 different CF pumps in 4 sizes over a 50 year period, the poster hasn’t given any details, but I’m guessing he is talking about the bellows seal behind the impeller, if not fitted skilfully it will leak like a sieve."

 

 

Daniel

 

That sounds very much like a carbon ring seal as found on car water pumps (or was, maybe they use lip seals nowadays)>

[GBW]

I now have a little more information.

Univac pump p1.pdfUnivac pump p1.pdf

Univac 2.pdf

I don't understand item 32.  The only person left at Sykes with an in depth knowledge of this pump has departed (the company not life).

It seems the shaft, item 14, rotates inside the bush item 32.  There are shim washers 22-24 which seem to allow the impeller to be moved back and forth relative to the shaft.  Maybe these shims provide a seal but it doesn't seem right.

The other conundrum is that there seems to be no source of lubrication between the shaft and the bush.  Can it be water lubricated?  It is ferrous but no signs of rust.

The bush is described as a "renewable sleeve".

Today is "Canal Day" (the volunteers work on Tuesdays) and perhaps they have discovered more.

 

[GBW]

One of the "navvies" has managed to make contact with the aforementioned Sykes es employee who has offered to rebuild the pump.

Problem solved hopefully.

[StephenA]

8 hours ago, GBW said:

One of the "navvies" has managed to make contact with the aforementioned Sykes es employee who has offered to rebuild the pump.

Problem solved hopefully.

 

Make sure he leaves detailed instructions on how to do it

[john.k]

Common problem with these pumps is the volute housing worn through by sand and gravel  in the water .....a new housing is costly enough to put the pump in the next contractors machinery auction.

[jonesthenuke]

On 07/11/2023 at 11:10, GBW said:

I now have a little more information.

Univac pump p1.pdfUnivac pump p1.pdf 150.84 kB · 6 downloads

Univac 2.pdf 99.38 kB · 12 downloads

I don't understand item 32.  The only person left at Sykes with an in depth knowledge of this pump has departed (the company not life).

It seems the shaft, item 14, rotates inside the bush item 32.  There are shim washers 22-24 which seem to allow the impeller to be moved back and forth relative to the shaft.  Maybe these shims provide a seal but it doesn't seem right.

The other conundrum is that there seems to be no source of lubrication between the shaft and the bush.  Can it be water lubricated?  It is ferrous but no signs of rust.

The bush is described as a "renewable sleeve".

Today is "Canal Day" (the volunteers work on Tuesdays) and perhaps they have discovered more.

 

Its a mechanical seal. see this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-face_mechanical_seal. If its worn it will not seal and the only solution is replacement parts