hot water

[squid]

Hello

What are people's experiences/recommendations with gas powered hot water vs using a calorifier?

Asking because both my gas heater and calorifier need replacing, plumber has recommended just getting a better gas boiler and I'm curious to know what others do?

thanks

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, squid said:

Hello

What are people's experiences/recommendations with gas powered hot water vs using a calorifier?

Asking because both my gas heater and calorifier need replacing, plumber has recommended just getting a better gas boiler and I'm curious to know what others do?

thanks

 

I think that you need to clarify what is meant by "a better gas boiler". If the suggestion is a true boiler, rather than an instant gas water heater I think you need to look carefully at running costs.

 

If the calorifier is using the engine coolant, then the heat is essentially free as long as you are running the engine for other reasons.

 

A correctly plumbed and valves instant gas water heater plus a calorifier is in many respects the best of both worlds. Free hot water when cruising and the minimum gas use when you are not.

 

Personally I had a gut full of old instant gas water heaters on the hire boats (1970s) so would never have one on my boat, so it was an Alde plus a twin coil calorifier, but that is just me and should not be used to sway you one way or the other.

[magnetman]

If you don't run the engine much then use gas. If you do run the engine much then use that. Gas water heaters instant type do use a lot of gas if you are a copious consumer of hot water. 

[Tracy D'arth]

With the ever rising price of gas I would always plump for a calorifier using free waste heat off the engine. But if you rarely move and you have enough solar or wind to charge your batteries fully then an instantaneous water heater burning gas would seem to be the only way.

[squid]

Thanks everyone. Maybe my original post was unclear, the plumber recommended that I replace the gas boiler and don't bother replacing the calorifier. This summer when I first bought the boat I was moving a lot, now just moving a bit every couple of weeks... and still getting used to my batteries but suspect I'll need the engine on a bit for charging batteries over the winter although I've been fine just on solar panels so far.

 

Also, I'm asking people this in real life too, but any particular types of gas boiler to look for or avoid?

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think that you need to clarify what is meant by "a better gas boiler". If the suggestion is a true boiler, rather than an instant gas water heater I think you need to look carefully at running costs.

 

If the calorifier is using the engine coolant, then the heat is essentially free as long as you are running the engine for other reasons.

 

A correctly plumbed and valves instant gas water heater plus a calorifier is in many respects the best of both worlds. Free hot water when cruising and the minimum gas use when you are not.

 

Personally I had a gut full of old instant gas water heaters on the hire boats (1970s) so would never have one on my boat, so it was an Alde plus a twin coil calorifier, but that is just me and should not be used to sway you one way or the other.

 

Exactly what Tony says, other than I have no prejudice against instantaneous heaters, so I would delete his final paragraph.

[magnetman]

We did 9 yars living on the barge with a Morco 61, 2 kids and a woman and a bath. Worked well but Jesus H Christ on a Jesus H bike that did use a lot of gas. I can only imagine it but it was better than a calorifier because there was no limit to the amount of hot water. Also very reliable. 

 

I have a Paloma on one my boats now which is good but I have a Very Low demand for hot water now the others are living ashore. 

 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

You cannot have too many ways of getting hot water, the more choice you have the better. My last boat had three methods and the one before it had four methods. Its down to what you think its worth to you budget wise.

[alan_fincher]

2 minutes ago, squid said:

Thanks everyone. Maybe my original post was unclear, the plumber recommended that I replace the gas boiler and don't bother replacing the calorifier.

 

I would say it would be best to be more accurate with your terminology.

A "gas boiler" burns gas to produce hot water but that hot water is stored in a "hot water cylinder" (aka "calorifier" in boat terms).

If you have no hot water cylinder / calorifier, then you have an instantaneous gas water heater, where water is heated on demand only when hot taps are opened.

Neither is perfect, but I prefer the latter as, however well lagged, heat will be slowly lost from a calorifier when you are not using it.

 

The problem is that the choice of LPG instantaneous water heaters suitable for boats seems to now be very limited.

The once very popular Morco D61 ha been discontinued for some time now.

[Tony Brooks]

18 minutes ago, squid said:

Thanks everyone. Maybe my original post was unclear, the plumber recommended that I replace the gas boiler and don't bother replacing the calorifier. This summer when I first bought the boat I was moving a lot, now just moving a bit every couple of weeks... and still getting used to my batteries but suspect I'll need the engine on a bit for charging batteries over the winter although I've been fine just on solar panels so far.

 

Also, I'm asking people this in real life too, but any particular types of gas boiler to look for or avoid?

 

As Alan says, and I asked. You need to be much clearer about exactly what this "boiler" is. Is it a gas boiler like an Alde/Truma which are a bit like the boiler you may have in a house, or are you talking about an instant gas water heater that in days gone by were often called an Ascot - whoever actually made it.

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, squid said:

Hello

What are people's experiences/recommendations with gas powered hot water vs using a calorifier?

Asking because both my gas heater and calorifier need replacing, plumber has recommended just getting a better gas boiler and I'm curious to know what others do?

thanks

 

As others have said, on boats it doesn't have to a question of "either/or" and one system vs another. If you've got both then keep both and just make sure both are working.

 

If you've got an instant gas water heater they do require a higher pressure water pump to get them to work properly. I use a 40psi cut out pump in combination with my Morco D-61 and it works perfectly. That's getting pretty close to the calorifier's 3bar pressure relief valve but just under.

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackrose

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, blackrose said:

 

On boats it doesn't have to a question of "either/or" and one system vs another. If you've got both then keep both and just make sure both are working.

 

I would be interested how they are both plumbed up 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, squid said:

plumber has recommended just getting a better gas boiler and I'm curious to know what others do?

 

Most of us use a calorifier or a Morco, and you have both!

 

Both work fine. I suspect its your plumber who is clueless.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Most of us use a calorifier or a Morco, and you have both!

 

 

 

 

But does he? The question has been asked earlier by Tony

[magnetman]

My second and best narrow boat was quite interesting. When I bought it I was not au fait with all of the systems and had "rather a hot shower". 

 

The calorifier and the paloma water heater were connected in the same circuit. 

 

The point is that a calorifier if given enough thermal energy from the engine will raise the water temperature TO a certain level. Dictated by the engine temperature. In this case it was a 60 degree thermostat on the engine..

 

The paloma instant water heater will raise the temperature BY a certain amount.

 

So if your engine has heated the water TO 55 degrees Celsius and your Paloma then raises the temperature BY 40 degrees Celsius interesting things can happen.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by magnetman

[blackrose]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I would be interested how they are both plumbed up 

 

On mine the hot water outlet pipes from each hot water source go to a single manually operated L-port valve. It's very simple and you can only draw hot water from one or the other, not both at the same time.

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackrose

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

My second and best narrow boat was quite interesting. When I bought it I was not au fait with all of the systems and had "rather a hot shower". 

 

The calorifier and the paloma water heater were connected in the same circuit. 

 

The point is that a calorifier if given enough thermal energy from the engine will raise the water temperature TO a certain level. 

 

The paloma instant water heater will raise the temperature BY a certain amount.

 

So if your engine has heated the water TO 55 degrees Celsius and your Paloma then raises the temperature BY 40 degrees Celsius interesting things can happen.

 

 

That is why I said I was interested in how its plumbed up.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But does he? The question has been asked earlier by Tony

 

"Asking because both my gas heater and calorifier need replacing,"

[magnetman]

Yes. 

 

Of course in the case of my boat the previous owners will have been aware of how it operated. It was actually very well designed as the calorifier was small and once you had a shower it would be full of cold water. No immersion or mains on the boat just engine heat. 

 

So in reality -when you know how it works- it is not a problem but can catch people out. 

 

I really like the setup and would do it again. 

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

"Asking because both my gas heater and calorifier need replacing,"

Gas heater could easily be an Alde. 

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

On mine the hot water outlet pipes from each hot water source go to a single manually operated L-port valve. It's very simple and you can only draw hot water from one or the other, not both at the same time.

My widebeam was the same. A simple easy to operate fool proof system that gave me four choices for hot water with a simple split second repositioning of a valve.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Gas heater could easily be an Alde. 

 

A Lidl one, possibly....

 

 

[magnetman]

 

Well to be fair they do sell the suitcase lavatories so its plausible.

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, squid said:

the plumber recommended that I replace the gas boiler and don't bother replacing the calorifier.

 

The OP said the above, but this seems to potentially contradict with the "both need replacing".  No explanation of what is wrong with both, and no explanation of what this replacement "boiler" actually will be.

 

I don't see how any sensible advice can be given until the OP clarifies things. I have a suspicion that the plumber might not be all he claims.

 

After Truckcab's efforts in his battery topic, I am far less inclined to try to puzzle out what the OP actually means.

 

 

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

So in reality -when you know how it works- it is not a problem but can catch people out. 

 

In that case the hot water system should have been fitted with a simple thermostatic mixing valve so nobody could be caught out and potentially scalded. .

 

I have one on my boat and if I'm cruising and running the engine then all hot water goes through the TMV because hot water heated by the engine circuit is far too hot to use. If I'm not using the engine I can close an isolator before the TMV and open a small bypass circuit so I don't have to use the TMV.

 

The TMV tends to get clogged by bits or limescale from the calorifier so I filled a Y strainer just before the TMV and it never gets clogged now.

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackrose

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

After Truckcab's efforts in his battery topic, I am far less inclined to try to puzzle out what the OP actually means.

 

Yeah, you could find yourself getting piloried for providing some information that wasn't requested! Again.