Canals transferred out of CRT?

[magpie patrick]

More general canal than general boating! 

 

Have any lengths of waterway been transferred out of CRT's ownership since they were formed, I'm aware of one or two that were transferred from BW (The Chesterfield Canal at Tapton for example). 

 

In case you're wondering as to my motive, restoring peripheral canals that belong to CRT is (1) fraught with difficulty and (2) given their current funding not exactly helpful to their cause so I'm wondering whether an alternative model can be applied. For example, the navigable sections of the Cotswold Canals are now leased to and managed by the Stroud Valleys Canal Company (a not for profit body) having previously been owned by The CoP of the Stoudwater Navigation and Gloucestershire County Council - has any similar transfer happened from CRT, or indeed any transfer of any kind?

[Tonka]

6 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

More general canal than general boating! 

 

Have any lengths of waterway been transferred out of CRT's ownership since they were formed, I'm aware of one or two that were transferred from BW (The Chesterfield Canal at Tapton for example). 

 

In case you're wondering as to my motive, restoring peripheral canals that belong to CRT is (1) fraught with difficulty and (2) given their current funding not exactly helpful to their cause so I'm wondering whether an alternative model can be applied. For example, the navigable sections of the Cotswold Canals are now leased to and managed by the Stroud Valleys Canal Company (a not for profit body) having previously been owned by The CoP of the Stoudwater Navigation and Gloucestershire County Council - has any similar transfer happened from CRT, or indeed any transfer of any kind?

What is the canal run by the IWA and who used to run it

[magpie patrick]

57 minutes ago, Tonka said:

What is the canal run by the IWA and who used to run it

 Chelmer and Blackwater Navigation, previously run by the Company of Proprietors of the Chelmer and Blackwater Navigation, whom I believe went into liquidation (no pun intended)

[BEngo]

How about the Rochdale?  I think that large chunks of that are owned by local authorities and maintained under contract by CRT.

 

Not sure when they went into LA ownership and what the route was as the Rochdale Canal Co certainly owned at least part of the canal until the Millenium restoration.

 

Not forgetting the Stratford, which went from BW to NT and back to BW.

 

N

Edited September 28, 2023 by BEngo
Stratford

[Machpoint005]

Perhsps there's a good case for running a canal as a cooperative.

 

 

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Perhsps there's a good case for running a canal as a cooperative.

 

 

Don't fancy getting wet when shopping

[Snakey]

Although it escaped nationalisation (and therefore BW), the Basingstoke is a good example of a partnership between the canal society and the LA.

[Tim Lewis]

5 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

 Chelmer and Blackwater Navigation, previously run by the Company of Proprietors of the Chelmer and Blackwater Navigation, whom I believe went into liquidation (no pun intended)

They did not go bust, they went into administration but bought out of it when the IWA took over the management of the navigation. The Company of Proprietors still ‘own’ the canal but have nothing to do with the running of it.

[cuthound]

46 minutes ago, Snakey said:

Although it escaped nationalisation (and therefore BW), the Basingstoke is a good example of a partnership between the canal society and the LA.

 

The Basingstoke Canal suffers from continual underfunding because "the two local authorities not are not under a legal obligation to pay their contribution and some have not done so in full for some years, which has contributed to ongoing financial pressure on the BCA." Indeed in 2018 they tried to get CRT to take it over but a sufficient dowry could not be agreed.

 

https://basingstoke-canal.org.uk/about/the-canal/the-canal-today/

Edited September 28, 2023 by cuthound

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

They did not go bust, they went into administration but bought out of it when the IWA took over the management of the navigation. The Company of Proprietors still ‘own’ the canal but have nothing to do with the running of it.

Thats interesting

[enigmatic]

How relevant is the Ashby to your situations? Looks like the Ashby Canal Association has full responsibility (including agreeing a stoplock and the right to charge for access) for the sections of navigation they are  reinstating, with CRT interest ending close to the part of the navigation which has always been open. They acquire(d) rights to land for the route from private landowners as a new transport route with council support rather than acquiring partially restored navigation from BW/CRT though

Edited September 28, 2023 by enigmatic

[ditchcrawler]

24 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

How relevant is the Ashby to your situations? Looks like the Ashby Canal Association has full responsibility (including agreeing a stoplock and the right to charge for access) for the sections of navigation they are  reinstating, with CRT interest ending close to the part of the navigation which has always been open. They acquire(d) rights to land for the route from private landowners as a new transport route with council support rather than acquiring partially restored navigation from BW/CRT though

If you are interested in helping the Ashby restoration to continue this may interest you  Petition · Ashby Canal Restoration · Change.org

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

10 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

More general canal than general boating! 

 

Have any lengths of waterway been transferred out of CRT's ownership since they were formed, I'm aware of one or two that were transferred from BW (The Chesterfield Canal at Tapton for example). 

I wonder what will happen when the Chesterfield restoration gets finished? and it’s connected to the main line of the Chesterfield Canal(CaRT) who will be responsible for the new restored sections/locks/facilities, Derbyshire County Council, Chesterfield Canal Trust or will they ask CaRT to take it over or contribute towards boating facilities and would CaRT want it, as they seam to be struggling maintaining the Chesterfield up to Shireoaks, dredging/weed/vegetation/towpath.

Edited September 28, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Machpoint005]

8 hours ago, Tonka said:

Don't fancy getting wet when shopping

 

I said cooperative, not Cooperative.

 

 

[David Mack]

11 hours ago, BEngo said:

How about the Rochdale?  I think that large chunks of that are owned by local authorities and maintained under contract by CRT.

 

Not sure when they went into LA ownership and what the route was as the Rochdale Canal Co certainly owned at least part of the canal until the Millenium restoration.

No. The Rochdale Canal Company owned the whole canal, but following abandonment of all but the Rochdale Nine section, the company had become a wholly owned subsidiary of the property company Town Centre Securities. TCS was content to allow the local authorities to fund the piecemeal restoration of the Eastern side, and to manage the restored sections. When the Millennium Lottery-funded completion of restoration was proposed, the funding couldn't be given to a private sector company, so a means had to be found to transfer the ownership to a publicly accountable body. This then got tied up into issues of tax liabilities for TCS that would result if they sold assets (so if they sold the canal for a nominal sum they might end up with a multi digit tax liability). Somehow a deal was eventually done whereby the Waterways Trust took ownership of the canal and navigation (and TCS retained the potentially more valuable non-navigation assets), TWT received the lottery funding, and they then contracted with BW to manage the remaining restoration and afterwards to operate the canal on behalf of TWT. So after reopening the day to day operation was managed by BW as part of the rest of the network, but legal ownership remained with TWT. On the formation of CRT, TWT was merged into the new organisation, so now the canal is under the same ownership as the rest of the network. (Although I am not sure if that would continue to be the case if CRT 'handed back the keys').

[Tacet]

As my father wryly remarked at the time, The Waterways Trust was entirely independent of BW.

 

They shared the same address and the same people answered the 'phone, but that was only to be expected of independent bodies.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Not aware of any. It’s an interesting question because the canals are nominally under the Waterways Infrastructure Trust AIUI, and CRT just (“just”!) manages them. So in theory one model would be for the WIT to retain ownership of a canal but give it to another organisation to manage. 
 

(Is the Kensington Canal another waterway that was transferred out of the management of BW? That one’s always intrigued me.)

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, Richard Fairhurst said:

 

(Is the Kensington Canal another waterway that was transferred out of the management of BW? That one’s always intrigued me.)

Lots of bits of disused canal were sold off by BW relatively recently. Sections I can recall are parts of the Pensnet Canal and part of the original route of the Oxford Canal at Newbold, including one of the portals of the original Newbold Tunnel.

Back in about 1973 I boated down the first four of the then 6 remaining locks on the Bentley Canal. That has all been redeveloped since (apart from the section between Wednesfield Junction and the top lock), so I assume BW must have sold that land off.