Spotters

[Momac]

A 'spotter' checked our index and license yesterday. 

 

He  asked if I knew the owner of an unoccupied  boat nearby which I didn't. We were just visiting while the  nearby boat was probably at its home mooring.. I didn't look too closely but it looked like the nearby boat had no index or license displayed.

 

It's good that C&RT are checking licenses.

But should the spotter really be questioning people who happen to be nearby to see if they have any information? I thought it a bit odd.

 

[Tonka]

Just now, MartynG said:

A 'spotter' checked our index and license yesterday. 

 

He  asked if I knew the owner of an unoccupied  boat nearby which I didn't. We were just visiting while the  nearby boat was probably at its home mooring.. I didn't look too closely but it looked like the nearby boat had no index or license displayed.

 

It's good that C&RT are checking licenses.

But should the spotter really be questioning people who happen to be nearby to see if they have any information? I thought it a bit odd.

 

Probably not after one of them was murdered the other year

[nicknorman]

27 minutes ago, MartynG said:

A 'spotter' checked our index and license yesterday. 

 

He  asked if I knew the owner of an unoccupied  boat nearby which I didn't. We were just visiting while the  nearby boat was probably at its home mooring.. I didn't look too closely but it looked like the nearby boat had no index or license displayed.

 

It's good that C&RT are checking licenses.

But should the spotter really be questioning people who happen to be nearby to see if they have any information? I thought it a bit odd.

 

I don’t see why not. We had a spotter in the marina recently, boat other side of our pontoon has never had a visible name or index, which is a bit silly really (and the owner is an ex copper) but we know the name and that it is licensed. So we passed on that info and the chap was happy, saved the issue of a ticket etc.

[Arthur Marshall]

Seems logical to me, use of local knowledge.

[jonathanA]

I always wave to our local spotter when I see him (our mooring is offside) - he always seems rather surprised and not sure whether to respond which makes me do it even more 🙂 

[Creaking Gate]

Seems very sensible; i can appreciate a bit odd if you are simply stopping there but then, most people (and plenty on this site) would moan like crazy if the spotter just walked off without any checks.   Damned if you do, Damned if you don't it seems. 

[Higgs]

48 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I don’t see why not. We had a spotter in the marina recently, boat other side of our pontoon has never had a visible name or index, which is a bit silly really (and the owner is an ex copper) but we know the name and that it is licensed. So we passed on that info and the chap was happy, saved the issue of a ticket etc.

 

What ticket could they (CRT) issue in a marina? The spotter would be off to the marina office, to check that they'd done the checks.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Higgs

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, Higgs said:

 

What ticket could they (CRT) issue in a marina? The spotter would be off to the marina office, to check that they'd done the checks.

 

A ticket for an illegal boat. Although perhaps your point is that the fault would lie with the marina, not the boat, since the need for a licence for a boat in a marina is a contractual one between CRT and the marina, not with the boat owner? Obviously it didn’t get to that point so I’m not sure what the protocol would have been.

[Lady M]

In my experience, some marinas do require boats to have a licence in their mooring agreements.

[Higgs]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

A ticket for an illegal boat. Although perhaps your point is that the fault would lie with the marina, not the boat, since the need for a licence for a boat in a marina is a contractual one between CRT and the marina, not with the boat owner? Obviously it didn’t get to that point so I’m not sure what the protocol would have been.

 

There's nothing illegal for a boat to be in a private marina and not have a licence. No ticket by CRT could be issued. 

 

 

 

 

Just now, Lady C said:

In my experience, some marinas do require boats to have a licence in their mooring agreements.

 

Yes. It is usually one of their terms and conditions.

 

 

[Ray T]

1 hour ago, Higgs said:

 

What ticket could they (CRT) issue in a marina? The spotter would be off to the marina office, to check that they'd done the checks.

 

 

 

We moor in a marina on the Trent and Mersey.

Up until recently there was an unlicensed boat next door but one to us. 

After an illness the male of the couple passed away and the boat didn't get the license renewed to my knowledge. After several months a CRT "ticket" appeared on the tiller and after some further months the boat disappeared.

Never did discover where it went, not my business anyway.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Ray T

[Tacet]

5 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

There's nothing illegal for a boat to be in a private marina and not have a licence. No ticket by CRT could be issued. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. It is usually one of their terms and conditions.

 

 

Why has this not been mentioned before?

[Higgs]

Just now, Tacet said:

Why has this not been mentioned before?

 

From what point of view?

 

 

[nicknorman]

4 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

There's nothing illegal for a boat to be in a private marina and not have a licence. No ticket by CRT could be issued. 

 

Yes I already conceded that point. But most marinas do have a contractual requirement to ensure that boats they harbour are licensed. So as you say, not “illegal” but in breach of contract. The “ticket” would be issued against the marina, not the boat. Ticket as in notification of breach of contract.

[Higgs]

Just now, nicknorman said:

Yes I already conceded that point. But most marinas do have a contractual requirement to ensure that boats they harbour are licensed. So as you say, not “illegal” but in breach of contract. The “ticket” would be issued against the marina, not the boat. Ticket as in notification of breach of contract.

 

Yes, the moorer would be in breach of the terms and conditions of the marina. Yes, The first place CRT would contact would be the marina, for a breach of their contractual obligation. 

 

 

[adam1uk]

I'm pretty sure that, depending on the relationship between the marina and CRT, they can ticket a boat in the marina for not having a licence.  The standard Network Access Agreement has a clause that says:

 

Quote

• Requires the marina operator not to allow any boat to be moored in the marina which does not have a current valid CRT pleasure boat licence, to keep records of the owners of all boats in the marina and to allow CRT to have access to the marina to inspect boats and these records. This is to assist us in minimising licence evasion which is in everyone’s interest.

 

[Higgs]

4 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

I'm pretty sure that, depending on the relationship between the marina and CRT, they can ticket a boat in the marina for not having a licence.  The standard Network Access Agreement has a clause that says:

 

 

 

A licence in a private marina carries no legal weight in the marina. And neither does the issuing authority have any control in a marina, apart from that it stipulates in the NAA. And none of that makes a licence in a marina a legal necessity on private property.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Higgs

[haggis]

I seem to remember the discussion on here about unlicensed boats in marinas a few times before but I might be wrong 🙂 

[Higgs]

8 minutes ago, haggis said:

I seem to remember the discussion on here about unlicensed boats in marinas a few times before but I might be wrong 🙂 

 

Depends on the context. But as far as the marina issue, It is not a question of being unlicensed, it is a question of who is in breach of whose contractual obligation, as the legal need for a licence only applies on CRT managed water, not on private property.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Higgs

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

2 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

What ticket could they (CRT) issue in a marina? The spotter would be off to the marina office, to check that they'd done the checks.

 

 

Not all Marina’s keep up to date records of the boats they have in, be it licence, BSS, insurance. They are often not bothered as they know It’s up to CaRT to check. As long as they’re getting the mooring fees a lot haven’t got a clue to that is going on with moored boats.

[Momac]

The location I refer to wasn't in a marina 

But it was a location where there are permanent moorings.

 

[Higgs]

Just now, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Not all Marina’s keep up to date records of the boats they have in, be it licence, BSS, insurance. They are often not bothered as they know It’s up to CaRT to check. As long as they’re getting the mooring fees a lot haven’t got a clue to that is going on with moored boats.

 

If the marina is sloppy, in keeping records it should keep, it will become noticed by CRT. 

 

 

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

The location I refer to wasn't in a marina 

But it was a location where there are permanent moorings.

 

 

And none of my posts were in response to that post of yours. To which, I would have said, would cause me no particular concern.

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

7 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Depends on the context. But as far as the marina issue, It is not a question of being unlicensed, it is a question of who is in breach of whose contractual obligation, as the legal need for a licence only applies on CRT managed water, not on private property.

 

 

Most of what people think are privately managed Marina’s and the water they’re on are leased by CaRT, so still need the relevant Licence, BSS and Insurance as stipulated by CaRT. So spotters attend these Marina’s carrying out their checks.

[Higgs]

6 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Most of what people think are privately managed Marina’s and the water they’re on are leased by CaRT, so still need the relevant Licence, BSS and Insurance as stipulated by CaRT. So spotters attend these Marina’s carrying out their checks.

 

I make a point of referring to private marinas, to avoid any ambiguity.

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

4 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

If the marina is sloppy, in keeping records it should keep, it will become noticed by CRT. 

 Do CaRT stipulate on the Marina’s Lease T&C’s that its the responsibility for the Marina to police licenses and CaRT paperwork requirements?  No they don’t, the only thing I’ve seen CaRT ask for is a list of boats that are on the Marina’s Trade plates which should be done monthly from what I’m aware of.

Just now, Higgs said:

 

I make a point of referring to private marinas, to avoid any ambiguity.

 

 

What do you class as a private Marina?

I would say a private Marina is a Marina on Private water not controlled by CaRT. All other Marina’s on CaRT water are not really private as the water is all CaRTs and as such all boats should comply with the relevant paperwork.