Live abroad potential?

[Leap of faith]

Hello everyone,

 

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/search.phtml?search=shortwood&exact=1&sr=1&q=1&x=0#result 

 

Please give me your thoughts/ideas for a live abroad boat. Is a stove possible opposite the Alde cupboard? I would a bench have to be removed. I would not really want to keep Alde.

[Tonka]

Would you be happy having to make the bed up every night or would you use one of the singles 

[Unicorn Stampede]

It's not my cup of tea, but sure, you could live on it. The question is more, what sort of things do you want/expect in your boat and does this one line up with it?

 

There's only so much that can be gained from an online viewing -  my recommendation would be that if you're going to buy a boat to liveaboard, go view a good number of boats first. 

 

Then you've got something real to compare against. 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Hello everyone,

 

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/search.phtml?search=shortwood&exact=1&sr=1&q=1&x=0#result 

 

Please give me your thoughts/ideas for a live abroad boat. Is a stove possible opposite the Alde cupboard? I would a bench have to be removed. I would not really want to keep Alde.

 

 

Just a few quick thoughts 

 

1) I think you are going the 'wrong way' This boat is 32 years old and will be developing problems.

 

2) Buyer withdraws after a survey does not indicate a 'good' boat.

 

3) An Alde is VERY expensive to run. It was costing a friend of ours over £50 per week in gas to heat the boat - they had to rip it out and install a solid fuel stove.

 

4) Yes a solid fuel stove can fit into a small space (if it is a small stove) we fitted a 'pipsqueak stove - 3Kw into our 30 foot NB and we managed to get the temperatures up to over 50 degrees C and had to stop the experiment. We took out a dressing table and fitted it into the space - see picture.

But you will need some other way of heating the radiators, or take them out as well and just rely on the stove. Is the Alde also heating the hot water ?

 

5) On our 30 footer we had a 'put up every night bed' it is a bit novel to start with but after a couple of weeks it begins to irritate and it gets worse and worse. We sold the boat because of it after 6 months.

 

6) Assuming you are willing to spend £50k I think you will find a much better and younger boat - keep looking.

 

7) The boat linked to is very dark (I'm not a fan of DIY fitted stained floor boards) and the fit out is not to a high standard - you'd be dissapointed.

 

8 ) Boat not been blacked since 2012 - could be the reason for a bad survey as the hull could be very corroded / pitted.

 

9) "Very simple electric system" this will need a major update and improvement if you are looking to liveaboard, There is no 'mains electric', no inverter etc etc. It is currently a 'day / weekend' holiday boat.

 

10) Nothing about a calorifier or hot-water.

 

You can do much better !

 

 

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Just a few quick thoughts 

 

1) I think you are going the 'wrong way' This boat is 32 years old and will be developing problems.

 

2) Buyer withdraws after a survey does not indicate a 'good' boat.

 

3) An Alde is VERY expensive to run. It was costing a friend of ours over £50 per week in gas to heat the boat - they had to rip it out and install a solid fuel stove.

 

4) Yes a solid fuel stove can fit into a small space (if it is a small stove) we fitted a 'pipsqueak stove - 3Kw into our 30 foot NB and we managed to get the temperatures up to over 50 degrees C and had to stop the experiment. We took out a dressing table and fitted it into the space - see picture.

But you will need some other way of heating the radiators, or take them out as well and just rely on the stove. Is the Alde also heating the hot water ?

 

5) On our 30 footer we had a 'put up every night bed' it is a bit novel to start with but after a couple of weeks it begins to irritate and it gets worse and worse. We sold the boat because of it after 6 months.

 

6) Assuming you are willing to spend £50k I think you will find a much better and younger boat - keep looking.

 

7) The boat linked to is very dark (I'm not a fan of DIY fitted stained floor boards) and the fit out is not to a high standard - you'd be dissapointed.

 

8 ) Boat not been blacked since 2012 - could be the reason for a bad survey as the hull could be very corroded / pitted.

 

9) "Very simple electric system" this will need a major update and improvement if you are looking to liveaboard, There is no 'mains electric', no inverter etc etc. It is currently a 'day / weekend' holiday boat.

 

10) Nothing about a calorifier or hot-water.

 

You can do much better !

 

 

Is it a water cooled engine ? 

[Tracy D'arth]

All of the above plus a bath in a 30ft boat is ridiculous. Try harder.

[Leap of faith]

According to the particulars it has a lister STW2M engine I do not know if this is water cooled.

 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Leap of faith said:

According to the particulars it has a lister STW2M engine I do not know if this is water cooled.

 

 

Nor do I in this case in particular, but a "W" in a Lister usually indicates water cooled.

 

 

 

[magnetman]

Are you intending to go to France in it or do you mean live aboard? 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by magnetman

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Nor do I in this case in particular, but a "W" in a Lister usually indicates water cooled.

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

According to the particulars it has a lister STW2M engine I do not know if this is water cooled.

 

It is water cooled and a nasty noisy old rattler. You will be driven mad by the racket.

They run the alternator at half speed and hence are poor at charging batteries for a live aboard.  Ignore and find better.

[MtB]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

5) On our 30 footer we had a 'put up every night bed' it is a bit novel to start with but after a couple of weeks it begins to irritate and it gets worse and worse. We sold the boat because of it after 6 months.

 

I'd second this. I have back cabins in both my boats with beds that 'hinge-down' in a flash, and these are a PITA too. Let alone the arrangement in this boat where it takes over the saloon. This boat is supremely unsuitable as a liveaboard IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leap of faith]

Is water cooled a positive or negative?

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Is water cooled a positive or negative?

A positive. Air cooled engines cannot heat your water for washing etc and are noisy. The only advantage is that they can't freeze up in winter.

Definitely not what you want on a live aboard. Go find better,

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

They run the alternator at half speed and hence are poor at charging batteries for a live aboard. 

 

Ah its one of THOSE Listers. In which case your statement is an understatement of the decade as good alternator charging is essential for a liveaboard. And ISTR the problem is near-impossible to fix as there is not space on this engine to fit a large-enough cam pulley.

 

So thats two reasons it wont be a good liveaboard.

[Alan de Enfield]

33 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Is it a water cooled engine ? 

 

From ListerParts :

 

Lister STW (listerparts.co.uk)

 

The water cooled version of the ST, the STW was in production for around 14 years from 1977 and was supplied pretty much exclusively as a marine build, being very popular as a lifeboat engine. The bottom half core components (cylinders excepted) are generally shared with the ST, but much of the rest of the engine is different and various parts can be problematic. Like the ST, it is a well engineered unit, but corrosion tends to be the big issue. If you are looking at one for a new project and need a water cooled Lister it is probably better to consider the later Alpha series engines, although they tend not to sound as nice as the STW.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[magnetman]

I doubt corrosion would be much of a problem on a canal boat engine. Thats usually related to sea water use. 

 

Also it might have been adapted to run on a skin tank in which case as long as there is antifreeze in it the thing might be immaculate. 

 

Not a fan of running main engine purely to charge batteries myself so the alternator would not put me off. Small generator for winter big solar panel for summer. 

 

30ft is quite small. My first narrow was 30ft I lived on it for 2 yars continuously before getting a 55 footer. 

 

There isn't much room but enough. 

 

Fixed bed is nicer. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by magnetman

[Stroudwater1]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Just a few quick thoughts 

 

 

8 ) Boat not been blacked since 2012 - could be the reason for a bad survey as the hull could be very corroded / pitted.

 

9) "Very simple electric system" this will need a major update and improvement if you are looking to liveaboard, There is no 'mains electric', no inverter etc etc. It is currently a 'day / weekend' holiday boat.

 

10) Nothing about a calorifier or hot-water.

 

You can do much better !

 

 

 

Hi Alan it’s usually you that cuts and pastes, with an eye for detail 🤣it was last blacked in 2022. “In October 2022 she was last blacked and in 2012 had 4 new anodes fitted. “
 

Much the best is to arrange to look at boats from three of the larger brokers round there, Braunston, Rugby boats and ABNB. They are all close and seem to have a larger than usual selection currently. This will help a lot to get an idea of what May or may not suit.
 

 This one is cheap, perhaps one of the better things. It would make a reasonable boat to potter around  for a week at a time or enjoy for a weekend  but not an ideal livaboard . 

 

 

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Much the best is to arrange to look at boats from three of the larger brokers round there, Braunston, Rugby boats and ABNB. They are all close and seem to have a larger than usual selection currently. This will help a lot to get an idea of what May or may not suit.
 

 

This is good and obvious advice the OP my not have fully realised. Look at any and every boat within reach. Not with a view to buying each one, but to get an education of what is available and just how different boats can be! If you need an excuse not to buy any given boat should you be pressed, say you are not decided on whether you want a cruiser or trad stern yet, and you re leaning towards the other type to this boat! 

 

 

[junior]

Only skimmed this thread, but there's no fixed double. There is absolutely no way I personally could ever live full time on a boat where you had to make the bed up every night ever again (yes I've done it). It is soooooh tedious.

 

There is also a reason why this boat is under £30k, and that Is most probably because it needs another £10k spending on it.

[Stroudwater1]

My experience of Rugby and Braunston  is that you can talk it through with them and get shown the boats they are selling (occasionally one under offer) usually without being rushed if you arrange a time first. They seem sensible enough to realise that being pleasant , listening and friendly may not sell the boats they currently have but may sell the next they are taking on. I’ve no experience of ABNB but they do sell a lot of reasonable boats and we rarely if ever hear a bad word on here. 

[magnetman]

The only brokers I have heard bad stories about and also have a bad personal experience with are the M1/WCML sandwich sharks. 

 

There must be others but these ones consistently come up as problematic.

 

 

[MtB]

Also worth visiting Whilton Marina. Usually about 100 boats for sale all in the same place. You can just wonder about and ask for keys to two or three of them and look around by yourself, unhindered by a sales person. They make no attempt whatsoever to "sell" you a boat, they just line 'em up and you decide. But once you've engaged with them they have a terrible reputation for unethical business practices (e.g. blatantly lying to you in answer to your questions), so best to just treat their site as a shop window.

 

https://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/

 

Not that far from Braunston.

[magnetman]

I always wonder if anyone has found a corpse in one of their boats.

 

I did see lavatories which had been used and not flushed on one boat. 

 

Lids left open. Quite shocking but never found a dead person thus far. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

38 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Hi Alan it’s usually you that cuts and pastes, with an eye for detail 🤣it was last blacked in 2022. “In October 2022 she was last blacked and in 2012 had 4 new anodes fitted. “

 

Thankyou - my mistake - as I said it was just a quick skim-read before I had to do something else, I think the weird wording may have affected how I read it.

 

I'd have expected "last blacked in 2022 and had 4 new anodes fitted in 2012" rather than "In October 2022 she was last blacked and in 2012 had 4 new anodes fitted." 

 

But thats the problem with speed reading you are working with what you expect.

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I always wonder if anyone has found a corpse in one of their boats.

 

I did see lavatories which had been used and not flushed on one boat. 

 

Lids left open. Quite shocking but never found a dead person thus far. 

 

 

 

 

Same here. I've been in one of their boats that smelt like there was a dead person in it, and also seen well-used lavatories in them. 

 

I think they just accept boats exactly as the owners deliver them to the brokerage. if the owners leave them in a mess, then that's how they stay for the viewers to see, and its how the boats will be when the buyer collects.