Can’t start our Beta Marine 38, stranded on the Ashby.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Cartel said:

The breaker that trips is the bilge pump one (the power to the bilge pump comes from the key block, not sure why they did it that way), I don’t know the rating, it’s a panel with all the 12v items connected to it, prob only about 5 amp.

 

The symptoms seem to keep changing, a short while ago it was only when start was operated, before that it did it as soon as the key was turned on and now it is the bilge pump breaker that is tripping. I can't see many bilge pump switches being supplied via the ignition on terminal, most odd.

 

Too confusing for me now.

[Tracy D'arth]

Can we start again?  It is becoming difficult to follow the fault.

Does the key switch feel wrong?  Is it outside or inside, has it been wet in other words?

Photograph the back of it so you know exactly where the wires go.

Remove all the wires being careful not to short the thick white and brown one to anything.

Connect each wire in turn to the white and brown noting which lights come on and what gets powered up, preheaters, Starter solenoid, engine stop solenoid.

Report back.

If you get the panel lamps on, and you have identified the starter solenoid wire, connect the one that puts the panel lamps on to the white and brown more permanently and tap the solenoid wire on to them both to get the starter working and you may be able to get the engine running to charge your batteries.

If you have difficulty in stopping it with the button you can manually stop it by pulling the stop rod that is connected to the stop solenoid on the injection pump. 

 

[Tel Jenkins]

Sorry for all the confusion on the symptoms of what’s happened. I tried all the suggestions and the system was tripping the breaker. It seems that whoever installed the panel took the live feed and powered the bilge pump from this and the bilge pump breaker that was being tripped when I turned on the ignition.

I had to call out River Canal Rescue as I couldn’t get to the bottom of it. The engineer had a good look around under the engine with his camera and discovered that the wiring loom around by the starter motor had melted and fused all the wires together, to add to the horror, the 40A fuse had melted the pins together and was no longer a 40A fuse but something with a much stronger rating. So everything was tripping because of the melted loom. I have to now sort out getting a new loom made up.

The 40A fuse issue probably contributed to it. I’m now wondering if the key barrel had shorted on starting the engine and the stuck 40A fuse caused it to heat up the loom and melt it.

Thanks for all your help and again I apologise for the confusion, it seems there are a few factors at play here.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

18 minutes ago, Tel Jenkins said:

Sorry for all the confusion on the symptoms of what’s happened. I tried all the suggestions and the system was tripping the breaker. It seems that whoever installed the panel took the live feed and powered the bilge pump from this and the bilge pump breaker that was being tripped when I turned on the ignition.

I had to call out River Canal Rescue as I couldn’t get to the bottom of it. The engineer had a good look around under the engine with his camera and discovered that the wiring loom around by the starter motor had melted and fused all the wires together, to add to the horror, the 40A fuse had melted the pins together and was no longer a 40A fuse but something with a much stronger rating. So everything was tripping because of the melted loom. I have to now sort out getting a new loom made up.

The 40A fuse issue probably contributed to it. I’m now wondering if the key barrel had shorted on starting the engine and the stuck 40A fuse caused it to heat up the loom and melt it.

Thanks for all your help and again I apologise for the confusion, it seems there are a few factors at play here.

Talk to Beta Marine, They should be able to supply an engine loom that will work, or need only minimal alteration. Give them the Beta order number, which should be on a plate somewhere on the engine and they will be able to go through their records to match most closely. Being a Beta spare, it will be expensive, but still probably cheaper, quicker and less hassle than paying some one to make up an new engine loom from scratch. It sounds like just the bit from the engine room multi pin plug to the various bits f the engine needs replacing.

[BWM]

34 minutes ago, Tel Jenkins said:

Sorry for all the confusion on the symptoms of what’s happened. I tried all the suggestions and the system was tripping the breaker. It seems that whoever installed the panel took the live feed and powered the bilge pump from this and the bilge pump breaker that was being tripped when I turned on the ignition.

I had to call out River Canal Rescue as I couldn’t get to the bottom of it. The engineer had a good look around under the engine with his camera and discovered that the wiring loom around by the starter motor had melted and fused all the wires together, to add to the horror, the 40A fuse had melted the pins together and was no longer a 40A fuse but something with a much stronger rating. So everything was tripping because of the melted loom. I have to now sort out getting a new loom made up.

The 40A fuse issue probably contributed to it. I’m now wondering if the key barrel had shorted on starting the engine and the stuck 40A fuse caused it to heat up the loom and melt it.

Thanks for all your help and again I apologise for the confusion, it seems there are a few factors at play here.

Tony suggested you check this area a fair few posts back.

[Eeyore]

I have encountered a melted loom on a very early Beta where the heater plugs were fed from the motor side of the starter solenoid. (similar to Barrus Shire engines using that terminal to pull the run solenoid in). Disconnect the battery and cut back one end of the damaged section, making sure that all the individual wires are different (ie staggered) lengths. Determine the length of the damaged section and prepare the required number of identical length repair sections. One at a time trim and prepare the other end of the damaged section. Join everything back together using inline crimps, the staggered cuts and equal length repair pieces prevent the crimps from lying over each other, making the job easier and tidy.  

[Tony Brooks]

Many thanks for the feedback and pleased that you now know what is wrong. I am also happy that I was right about the switch and multi-plug not being the most likely culprit.

 

I suspect the damage is on the ENGINE side of the multi-plug so you will only need that section. If I am right, I would disconnect all the wires on the engine (noting with great care what went to where), pull the multi-plug and get the harness onto the table where you can work on it in more comfort.

 

You will probably need a new fuse holder, but I suspect that with care and a small craft knife you will be able to separate the melted insulation. I think that you could then double or triple wrap each conductor with insulating tape and the bind it all up with Spirwrap loom binding to produce a working, but a bit bogey repair. This will do until you can sort the new harness section.  I would much rather do that than insert new lengths of cable using crimp connectors.

 

 

[Eeyore]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Many thanks for the feedback and pleased that you now know what is wrong. I am also happy that I was right about the switch and multi-plug not being the most likely culprit.

 

I suspect the damage is on the ENGINE side of the multi-plug so you will only need that section. If I am right, I would disconnect all the wires on the engine (noting with great care what went to where), pull the multi-plug and get the harness onto the table where you can work on it in more comfort.

 

You will probably need a new fuse holder, but I suspect that with care and a small craft knife you will be able to separate the melted insulation. I think that you could then double or triple wrap each conductor with insulating tape and the bind it all up with Spirwrap loom binding to produce a working, but a bit bogey repair. This will do until you can sort the new harness section.  I would much rather do that than insert new lengths of cable using crimp connectors.

 

 

Agree, but a lack of serviceable copper drove the decision 😎  

[jonathanA]

I think tony's suggestion of getting the damaged loom onto a table where you can work on it is the way to go.  a couple of photos and the forum can offer advice/guidance.  Personally I would cut back the badly damaged wires, solder* new lengths on and cover the soldered joint of each wire with heat shrink.   Then use spiral wrap or split convoluted sheath to protect the repaired loom. 

 

I'd use a couple of 1/4" female spade connectors (blue crimp or similar)  to make a temporary fuse holder for the 40A fuse. That would be at least as good as most blade type fuseholders, which in my opinion aren't suitable for 40A anyway, ideally replace with a midi type fuse depending on location etc. 

 

which is all great if you have access to all the needed bits....  appreciate you may need to bodge something to get you going as you said you were stranded.... 

 

* yes i know we'll get into the solder debate....   but the sky won't fall in, we arent talking aerospace engineering standards, and its perfectly reasonable in this situation IMHO.

Edited July 21, 2023 by jonathanA
eta solder disclaimer for the anally retentive

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

* yes i know we'll get into the solder debate....   but the sky won't fall in, we arent talking aerospace engineering standards, and its perfectly reasonable in this situation IMHO.

 

I would as well, but then I know that I can make a decent solder spliced cable joint, but the OP may not, especially if he tries with the toy irons you get nowadays. Easy to put a length of heat shrink over the joint as well. If h allows the hot solder to wick too far down the cable he will risk the now single strand cable snapping, but as long as it is well secured and not constantly flexed by engine movement it should be OK.

[Cheshire cat]

Given that he is up the Ashby the options with regards to buying a soldering iron will be severely limited. It's very rural. A lot of the local bus services seem to have been culled in the recent shake up. 

 

There are buses from Snarestone and Market Bosworth though.

[roland elsdon]

They have stopped the buses up the road to bosworth . The only bus now goes to leicester , via all the old villages.

Hinckley  or nuneaton  places with a screwfix might as well be on mars . ( mind you it would be better if it was).

If the poster has a real problem and needs to get stuff please pm me.

We are sometimes in a hovel overlooking the new marina at bosworth, if we are not on the boat.