Hoping to be a boater

[blue mick]

I'm hoping to buy a cruiser and I've been told I would deffo need a survey. I'm looking at spending around £4000 on the boat.

Does anybody have advise or potential pitfalls?

[LadyG]

What is the plan, is this for a jolly,  day crusing with the lads?

Or do you want to live on board all year round?

Live in a marina or  have you decided to constant cruise in London and expect that will solve your immediate housing and financial problems.

Do you have any skills, at all, or will you build on your IKEA skills?

Do you intend to work from the boat, or just go to the pub if you want to watch Sky?

it's not unrealistic budget, I met a guy yesterday with a lovely 1977 cruiser, inboard engine, and he paid £2,500 for it, very lucky, but you need to know what is a suitable craft before you spend any money.

it's a good idea to keep a wad of cash in hand, boats cost money 

Edited July 2, 2023 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

Possibly not in the correct section. I have asked the mods to look and move it if they want to.

 

Please amplify what you mean by "a cruiser". I suspect that you mean a GRP boat and if so, for inland use, a survey is probably less important than for a steel boat.

 

It is going to be an old boat that probably needs a lot of work.

[blue mick]

Yes I'm a painter and decorator so I think a lot of cosmetic work would be fairly easy, it's the electrics and engine that's more of a concern.

I intend to live aboard monday to friday.

So with it being a GRP would the hull for a boat of this kind of age likely be good?

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, blue mick said:

Yes I'm a painter and decorator so I think a lot of cosmetic work would be fairly easy, it's the electrics and engine that's more of a concern.

I intend to live aboard monday to friday.

So with it being a GRP would the hull for a boat of this kind of age likely be good?

That all depends on the boat.There are good boats and there are delaminating hulls, with water ingress. You are going to use your judgement and walk away from unsuitable boats.

You can take diesel maintenance courses 

But you needs a BSS Certificate if you want to use it on inland waterways.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by LadyG

[blue mick]

So is a survey needed?

I know it's a big chunk on an inexpensive boat.

I wouldn't have a clue on anything below the water line.

I'm also thinking of installing a wood burner if it doesn't have one, I'm guessing this would void the safety certificate 

[howardang]

8 minutes ago, blue mick said:

Yes I'm a painter and decorator so I think a lot of cosmetic work would be fairly easy, it's the electrics and engine that's more of a concern.

I intend to live aboard monday to friday.

So with it being a GRP would the hull for a boat of this kind of age likely be good?

I assume that you will be working so have you thought about whether you will be a continuous cruiser or are you looking for a mooring? What part of the country will you be based? Do you know anything about boats or is this just a pipe dream because so far you haven’t given enough detail to get relevant and realistic advice.

 

Howard

[blue mick]

I live in the north near manchester, I intent to have it moored at a marina near a train station of work purposes.

Somebody I was speaking with said if I more it each week I would avoid council tax.

So I think just cruising up a down the local canal, certainly not constant cruising 

No don't know much about boats total beginner but so was everyone once

[howardang]

14 minutes ago, blue mick said:

I live in the north near manchester, I intent to have it moored at a marina near a train station of work purposes.

Somebody I was speaking with said if I more it each week I would avoid council tax.

So I think just cruising up a down the local canal, certainly not constant cruising 

No don't know much about boats total beginner but so was everyone once

Thanks for that. May I suggest that as well as asking here why not visit a few moorings in your area and speak to as many boaters as you can so that you can get a feel for what might be involved, and who knows, you may get invited to go for a trip or two.

 

Howard

Edited July 2, 2023 by howardang

[blue mick]

Yes I went to one today and spoke to a lady who had a narrowboat who was determined I get a survey but had nothing negative to say about it.

Just wondering whether she was so determined because she had a narrowboat? It's a lot of money to spend if it's not so important on a GRP

[dmr]

18 minutes ago, blue mick said:

I live in the north near manchester, I intent to have it moored at a marina near a train station of work purposes.

Somebody I was speaking with said if I more it each week I would avoid council tax.

So I think just cruising up a down the local canal, certainly not constant cruising 

No don't know much about boats total beginner but so was everyone once

 

Have you had a look at a few marinas near Manchester? Much of the canal near Manchester is privately owned by a company who is not always keen on people living on boats. Finding a place in a marina near a train station might not be easy.

I have lived aboard for 14 years and take a keen interest in the legal side of things and have never heard this thing about moving every week to avoid council tax. Get some better advice before you sink any money into this plan. You might need to satisfy the requirements of both the mooring operator and the navigation authority.

[blue mick]

Thanks

The area of manchester is in saddleworth near greenfield train station, the Huddersfield narrow canal. The mooring seemed fairly quiet but plenty of boats on the canal moored up

[LadyG]

Have a look at other posts and don't buy anything till you are sure this is a better idea than living in a camper van. 

The Bridgewater canal is not CRT, navigation authority, most info on here is about CRT rules. Check out their website. Council tax is not likely, 

 

 

45 minutes ago, blue mick said:

So is a survey needed?

I know it's a big chunk on an inexpensive boat.

I wouldn't have a clue on anything below the water line.

I'm also thinking of installing a wood burner if it doesn't have one, I'm guessing this would void the safety certificate 

I have a steel boat with diesel heating and a stove . The stove needs to be installed properly, that alone might eat up £4K, though £1K is more realistic   Central heating as in diesel needs to be installed meticulously.

You could consider a diesel stove, maybe a Bubble or a Refleks some have a cooker type option. 

 

 

[dmr]

7 minutes ago, blue mick said:

Thanks

The area of manchester is in saddleworth near greenfield train station, the Huddersfield narrow canal. The mooring seemed fairly quiet but plenty of boats on the canal moored up

ok, thats CRT water which might make things easier. I don't really know that canal well because sadly my boat is too big to fit. Is there a marina there? do they have spaces available? and will they be ok with on living on the boat part time? If you just leave the boat moored on the canal then CRT will be unhappy. You might get away with it for a year or so but eventually you will get a lot of hassle and they will probably refuse to renew your licence. 

[blue mick]

Yes the marina is called frenches wharf and it seemed to have a lot of spaces free but no website.

I'm learning loads already so thanks everyone that's posted.... need another visit to that marina it seems

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, dmr said:

and will they be ok with on living on the boat part time? 

 

Could that possibly also be the same thing as "living somewhere else"? Might they actually be simply "spending a lot of time on their boat" but definitely NOT "living" on it?

 

I find this "living on the boat" thing really interesting and so hard to define. It gets terribly confused with having a "correspondence address".

 

I bet most people living on their boats also have a land address and postcode for purposes of income tax, benefits, driving license, employment, receiving snail mail, buying the boat license, healthcare, bank account(s) and a tonne of other stuff. I certainly did when I was "living on" my boat. Some might say I "lived at" that land address rather than on the boat, but it depended a lot on who I happened to be discussing it with...

 

 

 

 

[dmr]

Yes, there is a lot of canal stuff on the www, but a lot of it is still olde fashioned face to face. Go and do a bit of real "on the ground" research, chat to some real people.

I have boated past that marina (in somebody else's boat) it's a very small marina in a very pleasant spot so do make sure there is space suitable for you before you buy the boat.

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Could that possibly also be the same thing as "living somewhere else"? Might they actually be simply "spending a lot of time on their boat" but definitely NOT "living" on it?

 

I find this "living on the boat" thing really interesting and so hard to define. It gets terribly confused with having a "correspondence address".

 

I bet most people living on their boats also have a land address and postcode for purposes of income tax, benefits, driving license, employment, receiving snail mail, buying the boat license, healthcare, bank account(s) and a tonne of other stuff. I certainly did when I was "living on" my boat. Some might say I "lived at" that land address rather than on the boat, but it depended a lot on who I happened to be discussing it with...

 

 

 

 

 

If you can arrange that the boat is not your "main or sole residence" then it gets easier as far as the council is concerned, but some marina owners will see it very differently. I don't think I've been to my "land address" for about 5 years now but I really intend to go and live there one day 😀

[howardang]

Just in case you havent seen this here is a link to some information about the marina.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/directory/34836-frenches-wharf-marina

 

Howard

[blackrose]

10 hours ago, blue mick said:

I'm hoping to buy a cruiser and I've been told I would deffo need a survey. I'm looking at spending around £4000 on the boat.

Does anybody have advise or potential pitfalls?

 

£4,000 is not a lot of money for a boat that you intend to spend any amount of time living on. You might be able to handle it Mon - Fri in summer and you might even enjoy it, but I doubt that would be the case in winter even if you made the boat warm enough. There are issues like condensation that become a problem in winter especially on uninsulated GRP boats and apart from anything else living on an unsuitable boat can affect one's physical & mental health.

 

 

[blue mick]

Thanks for the link howardang

I did think about problems regarding condensation and thought lining the walls with what they called thermoline or wall rock would help but not solve the problem,  I assume I'd find more condensation on the windows and anything else cold

 

[BilgePump]

Welcome to the forum @blue mick

 

Not going to pretend that your plan is all plain sailing but also not going to say that you've got no chance either. I live the other side of Oldham so know the area and owned a few GRP cruisers over the years for leisure use. Have been following prices for some years as want to get something a bit bugger than my little 19' cruiser.

 

Prior to Covid, £4k would have been a reasonable budget for a basic GRP narrowbeam cruiser. It would have got something like a half decent 1970s Norman 23, Dawncraft 25 or similar with an old but working outboard engine. Both those boats have standing headroom for shorter folks, a basic toilet compartment and small galley. The smaller you get, the less space there is to cram those into a boat. Decent examples of those and similar boats now command a higher price than before so much less chance of finding one within budget.

 

Frenches Wharf apparently has electricity so it's not as difficult a prospect as trying to go off-grid on a towpath mooring (my CaRT mooring has no facilities except water and bins)

 

Personally, I wouldn't get a survey on a relatively low value GRP boat. Ideally I'd want to see it out of the water to examine below the waterline myself but wouldn't pay a surveyor to do the same job. Even to an uneducated eye, gouges, cracks and osmotic blisters would be obvious in the gelcoat unless well disguised. If you know nothing about boats then it's harder to detect a lemon but the main things to look at are rotted out timbers in the bilges, bulkheads and bottoms of cupboards etc. Look for leaks coming from window and roof fittings, vents etc. Make sure the wooden floor is solid and not weetabix, same with the floor bearers. Have the engine, electrical and gas systems demonstrated to you and look out for heath-robinson or suspect looking wiring, piping etc

 

A GRP boat is going to be relatively cold and damp in the winter. At the small size of boat that will be possible on £4k, the space required by any form of woodburner probably won't be available. However, lots of marina moorings have electricity for powering heating /dehumidifcation. With a smallish boat, the space isn't huge to deal with. I knew a young guy living on a 19' sailboat. It was possible because the marina was full service with electricity, washing machines, showers, WCs etc.

[Bee]

£4000 does not buy a lot of boat I'm afraid. Look around boatyards and you will find many GRP cruisers sitting on blocks out of the water and awaiting another owner to take them on. GRP cruisers do not age well, when their best years are behind them they suffer from leaks and damp and all sorts of horrors. Most have outboards that also do not age well either that refuse to start or run. or just never work properly. I would not bother with a survey, if it is afloat it is likely to keep floating, if it is on the bank it will show signs of having problems. If I were you I would visit as many boatyards as you can and see what is available and be very very careful. What Bilgepump has said is very useful indeed.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Bee

[blue mick]

That's very helpful 

Thinking maybe I should delay my plans slightly to save more money and gain more learning 

Been told this morning theys a boat yard in Brighouse were I'm working, does anybody know this place, I might visit it tomorrow 

[jonathanA]

i'll add to what bilgepump said, I have personal experience of buying a 19ft cruiser just prior to covid, we paid 3K for it.  during lockdown, it was pretty much stripped out and just about anything that could be, taken home cleaned, sanded, repainted etc.  Heating was a not too well installed chinese diesel heater, which was reinstalled and made safe, probably spent £100-200 on proper fuel pipe, exhaust fittings etc.  it has no galley and a rather basic toilet !  in winter we pretty much strip out all the soft furnishings and take them away to keep them dry.  We've resealed all the windows and cleared the vents and made them work properly (they'd been gunged up with silicone).  Done loads of 'cosmetic' work to external fittings.  (think labour of love) . Whilst the boat was 'stuck' in a marina during lockdown, we had it out and the bottom antifouled.  The boat has been completely rewired as the electrics were a shambles (and its very basic even now).  it passed it BSS about 18 months ago and the inspector said it would easily sell for £6K. this is in Lancashire not so not inflated southern jessie prices.   This is just a leisure boat, more a day/weekend boat.  in my opinion you are not going to get a livable boat for your budget. Great if you want a project like we did and have the time/capability to do the work (covid was a godsend for that ).    

 

presumably you have a house to return to at the weekend so a project boat could work for you - just go into it with your eyes open. 

 

ETA - as I'm sure someone else will say remember BOAT stands for a bring out another thousand (pounds) and everything on a boat takes twice as long as you think it will and costs at least twice what you expected.... 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by jonathanA
add

[blue mick]

Thanks Jonathan 

That is definitely something I've thought about and nothing is off the table. I would enjoy the cosmetics, being a painter and half good at diy I could make it look good, just the engine and electrics that scare me.... got a lot to learn before I do that but I suppose it would give me time to save more too