Sizzling Where Chimney Meets Ceiling

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think that you need to see what fire ratings the BSS require. I suspect CO2 will meet one, but not the other so you could still end up with powder extinguishers to meet the BSS fire rating.

 

I posted the full BSS requirements earlier, but appears the OP wants to go his own way (which he is obvioulsy at liberty to do - unless he wants a BSS and boat licence)

[RooF]

Thanks everyone, you know what on double checking you’re right CO2 extinguishers don’t cover the A requirement. For some reason I had gotten it in my head that Powder was ABC and CO2 was ABE. With that in mind I’ll replace with powders after all. 
 

All this info is very helpful, thank you

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I posted the full BSS requirements earlier, but appears the OP wants to go his own way (which he is obvioulsy at liberty to do - unless he wants a BSS and boat licence)

Quiet, but I thought he may not have grasped the importance of the fire ratings.

[RooF]

Again thanks for the help. Was aware of requirements, was clear at all points I intended to meet the requirements, but was misguided and wrongly thought that CO2 could meet those requirements. Must have misread something somewhere. Never going to hurt to talk to the fire service in addition to meeting this requirements. 
 

If anybody would like to continue giving any information they might have on the chimney sizzling behaviour I’d love to hear it. Thanks for your time.

 

[David Mack]

From my reading of the BSS requirements you can't have any portable CO2 extinguishers on board, but you can have a fixed CO2 extinguisher system, as sometimes used for engine compartments.

[LadyG]

21 minutes ago, David Mack said:

From my reading of the BSS requirements you can't have any portable CO2 extinguishers on board, but you can have a fixed CO2 extinguisher system, as sometimes used for engine compartments.

The automatic extinguishers for engine holes maybe?

I have two extra EXTINGUISHERS which are not counted towards my BSS Cert.

[magnetman]

54 minutes ago, RooF said:

 

If anybody would like to continue giving any information they might have on the chimney sizzling behaviour I’d love to hear it. Thanks for your time.

 

Obvious question not sure if it was asked. 

 

Was it raining when you heard the noise? 

 

I would say it is probably water getting in around the base of the collar if it is a bolted down type. It is Not Unusual for the sealant to degrade. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by magnetman

[RooF]

Great question. It was not raining. But my partner as I mentioned had recently showered 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, RooF said:

Great question. It was not raining. But my partner as I mentioned had recently showered 

 

Was she stood on the roof ?

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Was she stood on the roof ?

Or the RooF...

It is a fair point though because condensation generated by using a hot shower can find its way upwards into the lining if the ventilation is not sorted out properly. 

 

Next question is what is the insulation. Rockwool can hold water if given the opportunity. 

 

 

[RooF]

Haha no rooftop showers no, and though I’ve been known to be a pushover not yet to that extent haha

 

not sure on our insulation to be honest. I suppose I’ll keep an eye from now on and see if it happens most regularly after showers or if showers don’t factor into whether the noise happens or not 

[magnetman]

Was it definitely not the shower you could hear? Also what is the separation distance between fire and shower. 

[RooF]

Yeah absolutely the point where the chimney meets the ceiling, I stood with my ear near it and could hear it clearly coming from that point. 
 

distance between them maybe 15 foot? 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

The BS scheme doesn't allow CO2 extinguishers as I understand it. 

 

Brilliant for engine room fires of course if the engine room is separated from the living quarters. 

But it won't count towards the fire A and B ratings. 

 

 

I don't think you are right, it says what you must have but I don't think there is anything about what you must not have, If still legal I would have BCF it works

[magnetman]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

I don't think you are right, it says what you must have but I don't think there is anything about what you must not have, If still legal I would have BCF it works

 

Thank you for the correction. What I should have said is the BS scheme does not allow -for- CO2 fire extinguishers in the sense their ratings are not capable of fulfilling the requirements for fire extinguishers on boats. I didn't mean to say they were disallowed but I see that is actually what I wrote. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Thank you for the correction. What I should have said is the BS scheme does not allow -for- CO2 fire extinguishers in the sense their ratings are not capable of fulfilling the requirements for fire extinguishers on boats. I didn't mean to say they were disallowed but I see that is actually what I wrote. 

 

 

I think some others else also eluded to that they weren't allowed. I would think Foam would probably be the best after BCF

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

 

I have two extra EXTINGUISHERS which are not counted towards my BSS Cert.

 

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I don't think you are right, it says what you must have but I don't think there is anything about what you must not have, If still legal I would have BCF it works

The BSS says all portable fire extinguishers must have the required Class A and Class B rating. So nothing to stop you having more extinguishers than the minimum requirement, but any extra extinguishers must also comply with the requirements (unless they happen not to be on board on the day of your Boat Safety Examination).

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

 

The BSS says all portable fire extinguishers must have the required Class A and Class B rating. So nothing to stop you having more extinguishers than the minimum requirement, but any extra extinguishers must also comply with the requirements (unless they happen not to be on board on the day of your Boat Safety Examination).

I am not convinced about that I have two BC they were on board at time of exam

Edited April 21, 2023 by LadyG

[Iain_S]

9 hours ago, RooF said:

Hi folks totally agreed, but CO2 and powder extinguishers can both comply with the BSS, it’s a choice between the two if I’m not mistaken . Both can give the specified A and B requirements given the right size and combinations. The reason I’m hesitating to use powder is that often fire fighters will tell you powder makes such a cloud of powder when used that you will not be able to navigate around the space and find your way out if it’s small such as a boiler room, basement or indeed a narrowboat. Hence I though CO2 might be better to use for a fire extinguisher that could aid in escape, however it comes with a risk of suffocation by displacing oxygen of course. I’m replacing my fire extinguishers as though I have a BSS they are all quite old, decades old in fact, and I want to make sure I have newer working extinguishers as the new owner I want to be as safe as I can be. 

CO2 extinguishers are not counted for BSS purposes. No"A" rating.

That said, I carry one for the extinguishing of engine fires. Powder does make a hell of a mess, and is also dangerous in confined spaces.

4 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

The BSS says all portable fire extinguishers must have the required Class A and Class B rating. So nothing to stop you having more extinguishers than the minimum requirement, but any extra extinguishers must also comply with the requirements (unless they happen not to be on board on the day of your Boat Safety Examination).

All the ones that count towards the BSS requirements. The BSS do not forbid extra safety equipment.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Iain_S

[TandC]

Without a picture of your ceiling where the stove flue exits hard to know if this suggestion is helpful - but you can buy a brass trim collar for the inside, goes around the flue and tidies up the hole in the ceiling lining allowing for a good clearance gap from combustible ceiling panel.  

 

The link below is a solid ring one requiring installation before the flue, but you can get two part ones too that you can put around the flue with it in place (or just cut the solid one in two). 

 

You could trim back the ceiling lining to allow you to see what's going on and the state of where the flue meets the collar, also allow you to see the roof insulation, feel if it is wet etc.   Then put the trim collar round to hide where you've cut the ceiling. 

 

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/products/ag-trim-ring-to-suit-4-5-od-flue-pipe-brass-ab-054-m?cid=17612310910&adgpid=&itemid=&targid=&mt=&loc=9046127&ntwk=x&dev=c&dmod=&adp=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwi46iBhDyARIsAE3nVrZ_es6rr5IauJXVo0I4SdF_w3waUotuoX3myQFxMX5oUsES8tl6uWkaAtIAEALw_wcB

 

[David Mack]

8 hours ago, Iain_S said:

All the ones that count towards the BSS requirements. The BSS do not forbid extra safety equipment.

That may be how examiners interpret it, but its not what the requirements actually state. It was explained to me that all extinguishers must comply with the requirements, as otherwise in an emergency a boater might try to use one which was inadequate, and be harmed as a result.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, TandC said:

Without a picture of your ceiling where the stove flue exits hard to know if this suggestion is helpful - but you can buy a brass trim collar for the inside, goes around the flue and tidies up the hole in the ceiling lining allowing for a good clearance gap from combustible ceiling panel.  

 

The link below is a solid ring one requiring installation before the flue, but you can get two part ones too that you can put around the flue with it in place (or just cut the solid one in two). 

 

You could trim back the ceiling lining to allow you to see what's going on and the state of where the flue meets the collar, also allow you to see the roof insulation, feel if it is wet etc.   Then put the trim collar round to hide where you've cut the ceiling. 

 

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/products/ag-trim-ring-to-suit-4-5-od-flue-pipe-brass-ab-054-m?cid=17612310910&adgpid=&itemid=&targid=&mt=&loc=9046127&ntwk=x&dev=c&dmod=&adp=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwi46iBhDyARIsAE3nVrZ_es6rr5IauJXVo0I4SdF_w3waUotuoX3myQFxMX5oUsES8tl6uWkaAtIAEALw_wcB

 

My stove had been fitted using fireclay at the deckhead, which is stupid as it conducts heat.

I chipped most away on first night as the deckhead paint was scorching, I made a gap round the flue, and put a bit of fibreglass rope. Then I took the metal ring and bound it with exhaust tape. Sorted

[Iain_S]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

That may be how examiners interpret it, but its not what the requirements actually state. It was explained to me that all extinguishers must comply with the requirements, as otherwise in an emergency a boater might try to use one which was inadequate, and be harmed as a result.

To quote from the BSS Check list : (my bold)

Quote

 

To be considered as suitable, portable fire extinguishers must:

• have an individual fire rating of 5A/34B or greater; and,

• be marked with at least one accredited third-party certification mark; and,

• not show any of the following indicators of poor condition

 

 

It would be perverse for a boat to fail a BSS examination because of extra safety equipment, and such a case would certainly be grounds for appeal.