Rochdale Sowerby Br <-> Manchester, Late Apr, early May ... will it be do-able?

[Simon Pooley]

Hello folks, we're considering a Sowerby Bridge to Manchester and return narrowboat trip in a ~ 10 days hire from Shire Cruisers over the last week in Apr, first week in May.

 

We're very experienced annual hirers (>40 years) but were last on the Rochdale 20 years ago, when our plans for a 2-week trip around the South Pennine ring were thwarted by a lock closure at Failsworth. (We did manage Ashton-u-Lyme -> Standedge Tunnel -> Huddersfield -> Sowerby Bridge -> Rochdale Summit -> Failsworth -> Sowerby Bridge in our 14 days - sketch map attached).

 

The currently "known knowns" stoppages ( CRT Rochdale notices, Apr-May ) don't throw up any major problems for our anticipated end-to-end of the Rochdale. Just timed/restricted passage through Tuel Lane and a few awkward/sticky/troublesome locks). But we wondered whether any of you who know the area could provide local knowledge of any potential navigation issues?

 

I'm guessing water levels should be ok? Our 20-years-ago passage over the Rochdale Summit was restricted due to low levels. We'll talk to the boatyard, and monitor the stoppage reports after Easter, to see if things are flowing smoothly (or, at least, as smoothly as they ever do on the Pennine canals!) 

 

Thank you in advance for any comments on our plans.

[dmr]

At the moment the Rochdale is open and the water is mostly good, though it only recently re-opened after winter works so boats are maybe getting even more prop fouls than normal.

Late April-May is a good time as the water will not have run out.

However the day down into Manchester (Failsworth-Newton Heath-Miles Platting) is still potentially one of the hardest bits of canal boating anywhere through a grim housing estate and on a bit canal that will have a fair few shopping trolleys and discarded items of bad taste clothing. It does have a few interesting bits but I would not choose to do this for pleasure, just as a transit route to better places.

Unless Manchester is essential to your trip I would maybe only go as far as Littleborough and do a bit of the Calder and Hebble at the other end to use up any extra days, but then again the Slatocks lock flight between Rochdale and outer Manchester is good.

 

Unless you are very good, put in very long days, and have luck on your side, I would say that 10 days is extremely optimistic.

 

There is always a chance of issues on this journey, just last week a paddle was left up just above Manchester and it took several days to sort out the water levels.

[Simon Pooley]

Thank you for the comments. We're particularly keen to cruise the "tricky bit" between Slattocks Top and the top of the Rochdale Nine - it's one part of the Northern Canals missing from our travels over the years!

 

In terms of timing, we have previously taken 37 hours over 5.5 days to go from Sowerby Bridge to Slattocks Top and return.

We're hoping that with 10 days we can get further into Manchester.

Of course, we were then in our 40's, but now in our 60's ... and the canal will be 20 years older too 🙂

[dmr]

ok   the Manchester 18 is the difficult and variable bit, going down is usually ok as you take some water with you. Coming up very much depends on having enough water, it only takes one low pound to really mess things up as you are then constantly stealing the water that you need later.  Having a bit of extra crew, or the CRT volunteer, really helps if water is low.

Last but one time we left New Islington at first light and were in the pub at the top of Slattocks late afternoon.

Last time we left New Islington at first light and it was pitch dark by the time we got to the Boat and Horses. (and that was with additional expert crew, the CRT volunteer and a CRT employee)

 

Despite a lot of complaining from boaters the canal is likely better than it was 20 years ago, but I also suspect there are far more newish boaters on the system who have a lot of pound draining accidents.

 

The Sowerby to Littleborough half of the Rochdale is lovely so its a shame to rush, so go like the clappers then maybe you will have time to stop in Tod and Hebden on the way back. 😀.

[PeterScott]

On 07/04/2023 at 15:39, Simon Pooley said:

... Sowerby Bridge to Manchester and return narrowboat trip in a ~ 10 days hire from Shire Cruisers ...

24 minutes ago, dmr said:

...canal is likely better than it was 20 years ago...

Yes, the staff at Shire Cruisers will be looking after your interests as best they can, and monitoring any issues if you keep them updated with progress - for example they can probably sort out any timing difficulties with Tuel Lane if that becomes necessary.

 

We did a return trip in a 70' boat, in the opposite directions,  many moons ago. From the log, mostly with a steerer and two lockwheelers

 

Monday 0820-1950 (11hrs 30m) Ducie Street Junction to Clegg Hall Bridge No55

Tuesday 0750-1940 (stops of 1hr and 2hs respectively 8hrs 50m) to Todmorden - 2hr delay at lock 29 for BW chap to don a drysuit and fix a leaking paddle. Todmorden guilloting gate operating-float-switch needed fiddling/cheating to make it work

Wednesday 0830-1830 (10hrs) to end Halifax Branch (wind) and then to Sowerby Bridge Basin

Thursday 0730-1715 (9hrs 45m) to Warland Bridge No40

Friday 1150-1515 (3hrs 25m) (liaising with extra weekend crew) to above West Summit lock

Saturday 0805-1730 (9hrs 25m) to Chadderton (also Sat/Sun) towing a broken-down cruiser 

Sunday 0715-1250 (5hrs 35m) to Ducie Street Junction  (and then wecontinued around Cheshire Ring...)

Total =57hrs 30m

 

Have a good trip :-)

[dmr]

8 minutes ago, PeterScott said:

Yes, the staff at Shire Cruisers will be looking after your interests as best they can, and monitoring any issues if you keep them updated with progress - for example they can probably sort out any timing difficulties with Tuel Lane if that becomes necessary.

 

We did a return trip in a 70' boat, in the opposite directions,  many moons ago. From the log, mostly with a steerer and two lockwheelers

 

Monday 0820-1950 (11hrs 30m) Ducie Street Junction to Clegg Hall Bridge No55

Tuesday 0750-1940 (stops of 1hr and 2hs respectively 8hrs 50m) to Todmorden - 2hr delay at lock 29 for BW chap to don a drysuit and fix a leaking paddle. Todmorden guilloting gate operating-float-switch needed fiddling/cheating to make it work

Wednesday 0830-1830 (10hrs) to end Halifax Branch (wind) and then to Sowerby Bridge Basin

Thursday 0730-1715 (9hrs 45m) to Warland Bridge No40

Friday 1150-1515 (3hrs 25m) (liaising with extra weekend crew) to above West Summit lock

Saturday 0805-1730 (9hrs 25m) to Chadderton (also Sat/Sun) towing a broken-down cruiser 

Sunday 0715-1250 (5hrs 35m) to Ducie Street Junction  (and then wecontinued around Cheshire Ring...)

Total =57hrs 30m

 

Have a good trip 🙂

Why?  why would anybody choose to go that fast when there is so much to see and enjoy 😀, I take the train or car when I need to travel like that.

Note in my previous post that we spent 14 hours going from New Islington to the Boat and Horses, though this was a bad day.

 

The guillotine gate issue was because you were going too fast 😀 you brought too much water down the Gauxholm flight which raised the Todmorden pound and so defeated the float switch. A better approach is to wait an hour or two above the lock for the excess water to run off, stroll round to Tod Almighty for a pastie or possibly even have a pint in the lockside bar (an offshoot of the Golden Lion) .

 

The Rochdale is now shut again for a day or so due to another open paddle in Tod, and somebody has dropped the summit a fair bit too.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

9 minutes ago, dmr said:

Note in my previous post that we spent 14 hours going from New Islington to the Boat and Horses, though this was a bad day.

Yes I remember it was a bad day. 
I’m just glad I was late joining you and didn’t do the full 14 hrs 😂

I probably did about 8 or 9?

Maybe just 3? 😂

can’t remember 

the next day was a bastard too!

between that swing bridge (?) and the Aquaduct ??

Late for a pint then aswell!

Only to be disappointed because they’d done the pub up and it were posh. 
 

all good fun at the end of the day 👍

 

[dmr]

8 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Yes I remember it was a bad day. 
I’m just glad I was late joining you and didn’t do the full 14 hrs 😂

I probably did about 8 or 9?

Maybe just 3? 😂

can’t remember 

the next day was a bastard too!

between that swing bridge (?) and the Aquaduct ??

Late for a pint then aswell!

Only to be disappointed because they’d done the pub up and it were posh. 
 

all good fun at the end of the day 👍

 

 

Im not a fan of JW Lees beers but it tasted seriously good both evenings.

[Unicorn Stampede]

Of all the places to go on holiday, paying for the joys of the Rochdale 18 wouldn't be very much at the top of my list.

 

It's an absolute state - they did some cleaning up over last few months (see attached image) so there's less junk, but the locks and dodgy pounds ain't been fixed.

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Unicorn Stampede

[Simon Pooley]

19 hours ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

Of all the places to go on holiday, paying for the joys of the Rochdale 18 wouldn't be very much at the top of my list.

 

Well for us, it's all about exploring the whole canal system and - after 40-odd years - it's tempting to try and include sections that we have missed from our previous trips. Having said that, I suspect we'll concentrate on re-enjoying the Rochdale between Sowerby Bridge and Littleborough - then see how we feel about progressing further at the West end.

 

(Thanks for the comments, 'though!) 

[dmr]

The Failsworth pound is wide, though shallow at the edges, should be ok to wind a typical hire boat there. So do Rochdale (which is not that bad relative to Manchester) and the Slattocks flight (would be a visitor attraction if it was anywhere but between Rochdale and Manchester), overnight at the Rose or Boat and Horses then see how its going, either quick dash down to Manchester or wind at Failsworth. ????

[Simon Pooley]

Yup, dmr, that's the evolving plan! Thanks for your thoughts.

[Captain Pegg]

I dislike folk telling other boaters how and where they should boat.

 

I'm now thinking the Rochdale will be my way back over the Pennines once I've done the Huddersfield narrow and by necessity there will be a degree of speed involved. It's really important that some of us choose to cruise such canals.

 

So thanks to @Simon Pooley for starting the thread and to @PeterScott for an insight as to what is possible for folks who focus on going boating. I'm sure I'll manage to see the surroundings while traversing the canal at an overall average speed of 1mph (and that's just for the times when 'cruising').

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[IanD]

We did the HNC-Rochdale ring from Shire Cruisers in 10 days in 2017, but that was with four of us on the boat who like locks. Hard work but extremely enjoyable if you like boating more than long stops... 🙂

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by IanD

[Unicorn Stampede]

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I dislike folk telling other boaters how and where they should boat.

 

 

 

 

He asked for comments on his plans - the Rochdale canal, from Littleborough to Manchester is, in my opinion, a dump. I personally wouldn't pay money to deal with it. 

 

We've done it a couple of times now (once out of interest as continuous cruisers, another because we had to due to closures to get to a particular boat yard). Both times it's been crap.

 

We've ended up having to tug another boat through due to low water levels, almost got tipped then grounded by a hidden trolley in a lock, were stuck in another lock because of another trolley and had the joy of dealing with the rubbish floating around.

 

I genuinely don't understand what could be enjoyable about it - the council estates are run down and provide little to enjoy or see, the locks are badly treated and ill maintained, the pounds kept emptying when we did it (leading me to believe there were additional leakage issues beyond just the locks) and the Rochdale 9 at the end is grim.

 

If the OP wants to tick it off their bucket list, then they are absolutely welcome to.

 

I get that it's s important we don't just neglect tough canal sections, as they can be fun to boat in. However CRT has done little to fix that stretch (no doubt quoting that not enough boats go that way to make it worthwhile... When CRT has done nothing to encourage boaters to make that trip).

 

Hopefully your trip up there @Captain Pegg isn't as fraught with the crap we had to deal with. I don't think I've met a boater whose come over the top whose said they enjoyed it though, be they hirers or boating types. Obviously some of them must exist, but it's not a universal sentiment towards that stretch.

 

 

[dmr]

For various reasons I've spent a lot of time moored near the summit and chatted to most of the boaters who come up through Manchester. Almost all have a horrible time, some really bad, and many swear never to visit again.

This is sad as the Rochdale is a wonderful canal and could do with a few more boats. Manchester is one hard and potentially bad day but gets out of perspective and sometimes this then clouds the rest of the journey.

If boaters know what to expect and come prepared then it should be ok, so good information on a forum like this can be really helpfull.

 

The journey times quoted by Peter and Ian are possible (just), but not representative and most boats will get nowhere this, so posts like these should not be used by others when planning this journey. Over ambition or lack of preparation just result in getting stuck in Newton Heath for a night where, based on recent reports, there will maybe a 25% chance of a smashed window or firework down the chimney etc. And yes I know several boats have spent a night in Newton Heath with no trouble at all and have even left the boat unattended to visit the pub at lock 69.

 

Make sure the weedhatch is functional and that suitable tools are available, make a very early start and aim for short days and it should be fine. If a day goes well then maybe push on, but don't try to be doing the Manchester 18 or Rochdale later in the day in case things go wrong causing huge delays.

[droshky]

If we ever do get thru Standedge, I’m hoping to fit in a return cruise up towards Hebden Bridge before we return and continue towards Wakefield and Leeds.
 

How far should we go up C&H/Rochdale? No particular time constraints but we’re getting a bit tired of stoppages.

[David Mack]

32 minutes ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

I genuinely don't understand what could be enjoyable about it - the council estates are run down and provide little to enjoy or see, the locks are badly treated and ill maintained, the pounds kept emptying when we did it (leading me to believe there were additional leakage issues beyond just the locks) and the Rochdale 9 at the end is grim.

It's urban canal. And it has the same issues of vandalism and rubbish that urban canals elsewhere have. But it is not one continuous 'council estate'. There's a whole range of different urban (and some fairly rural) environments, and there is plenty of vegetation along the banks on most of the route, meaning a lot of what lies beyond is largely invisible. But the towpath is quite well used, and the locals are interested in passing boats.

There are a few reasons why not many boaters use this section:

1. It's a bit remote from the main Midlands network, so its a long trip for many private boats.

2. It's heavily locked, and between Failsworth top at New Islington there aren't places where you would want to overnight or leave the boat, so having to do the Manchester 18 in a day is daunting for those used to a slower pace of boating.

3. The Manchester end was the last bit to be restored and the Millennium funding ran out. So there are sections which were never dredged out to full width, and in the 20 years since reopening, the narrow channel that was provided in some lengths has proved less than ideal. Some of the channel markers are missing and it is easy for the unwary to go aground.

4. The original canal reservoirs are now used for public water supply and the water available to the canal from them is limited. So the summit in particular can be restricted in dry weather. And pounds can end up being drained, as a result of vandalism or careless boaters not closing all gates and paddles. CRT are good at refilling low pounds when they are aware of them, but obviously this can cause some delay to boats.

5. The lack of boats means that emerging problems can go unnoticed, and makes it harder for CRT to justify spending resources on maintenance. Add that to some cut-price restoration, and 20 years of wear and tear and decay, and the result that is it can be harder to boat than other sections.

The answer for the last point is not for boaters to be scared away - that will lead to a spiral of decline. What the canal needs is more boats. CRT local staff are keen to see more boats (and very helpful if you need to call them out for any problems). Shire Cruisers do a lot to encourage their more experienced hirers to do it. What it doesn't need is boaters putting out misinformation.

 

[dmr]

16 minutes ago, droshky said:

If we ever do get thru Standedge, I’m hoping to fit in a return cruise up towards Hebden Bridge before we return and continue towards Wakefield and Leeds.
 

How far should we go up C&H/Rochdale? No particular time constraints but we’re getting a bit tired of stoppages.

I'm biassed but I consider the stretch from a little above Todmorden up to the summit to be the most spectacular bit of canal anywhere, so I suggest you go all the way up to the summit.  There is a winding hole on the summit but the length of boat it takes does depend on the water level, otherwise the run down to Littleborough is pretty good. Both Hebden and Todmorden are good towns to visit.

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

 

He asked for comments on his plans - the Rochdale canal, from Littleborough to Manchester is, in my opinion, a dump. I personally wouldn't pay money to deal with it. 

 

We've done it a couple of times now (once out of interest as continuous cruisers, another because we had to due to closures to get to a particular boat yard). Both times it's been crap.

 

We've ended up having to tug another boat through due to low water levels, almost got tipped then grounded by a hidden trolley in a lock, were stuck in another lock because of another trolley and had the joy of dealing with the rubbish floating around.

 

I genuinely don't understand what could be enjoyable about it - the council estates are run down and provide little to enjoy or see, the locks are badly treated and ill maintained, the pounds kept emptying when we did it (leading me to believe there were additional leakage issues beyond just the locks) and the Rochdale 9 at the end is grim.

 

If the OP wants to tick it off their bucket list, then they are absolutely welcome to.

 

I get that it's s important we don't just neglect tough canal sections, as they can be fun to boat in. However CRT has done little to fix that stretch (no doubt quoting that not enough boats go that way to make it worthwhile... When CRT has done nothing to encourage boaters to make that trip).

 

Hopefully your trip up there @Captain Pegg isn't as fraught with the crap we had to deal with. I don't think I've met a boater whose come over the top whose said they enjoyed it though, be they hirers or boating types. Obviously some of them must exist, but it's not a universal sentiment towards that stretch.

 

 

 

It struck me the point of the post was that the OP wanted to do the descent into Manchester and I figured they probably understood the general nature of the canal. It's fair game to question whether they know what lies in store but you did rather p*ss on the OP's chips.

 

Urban canals are every bit as an important part of the network as the rural ones. One would never have existed without the other. The comparison with the urban canals of the West Midlands is part of the attraction for me and I have visited the east side of Manchester a few times.

 

For my part I'll plan to do Rose of Lancaster to New Islington in one day and it will likely be a very early start.

 

Although I can't take @dmr's advice about the weed hatch, since I don't have one.

 

[dmr]

13 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

It struck me the point of the post was that the OP wanted to do the descent into Manchester and I figured they probably understood the general nature of the canal. It's fair game to question whether they know what lies in store but you did rather p*ss on the OP's chips.

 

Urban canals are every bit as an important part of the network as the rural ones. One would never have existed without the other. The comparison with the urban canals of the West Midlands is part of the attraction for me and I have visited the east side of Manchester a few times.

 

For my part I'll plan to do Rose of Lancaster to New Islington in one day and it will likely be a very early start.

 

Although I can't take @dmr's advice about the weed hatch, since I don't have one.

 

 

As I have said, going down should be much lower risk than coming up. I expect you are expert at clearing your prop but it might be worth getting a set of waders if you don't already. Some of the modern man made fabrics that the locals like to wear can be extra difficult to shift.  We got what looked to be some sort of quilted coat with lengths of stiff wire in the pockets and these wrapped round the shaft behind the prop and locked the fabric in place, making it impossible to cut off. It was as if somebody had tried to invent the ultimate prop foul.

Do consider passing the Rose and stopping at the Boat and Horse which puts you a lock and lift bridge closer to the 18 ready for an early start. The Boat does a good cheese pie but is also, I believe, a significant part of the canal history as it had to be demolished and rebuilt to enable the restoration (I need to get my book out to confirm this).

 

If you have no setbacks then you could probably do the Rochdale 9 later the same day, or even get up the Ashton.

 

(The 18 makes Ryders Green and the Walsall canal look like a doddle 😀)

[Captain Pegg]

36 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

As I have said, going down should be much lower risk than coming up. I expect you are expert at clearing your prop but it might be worth getting a set of waders if you don't already. Some of the modern man made fabrics that the locals like to wear can be extra difficult to shift.  We got what looked to be some sort of quilted coat with lengths of stiff wire in the pockets and these wrapped round the shaft behind the prop and locked the fabric in place, making it impossible to cut off. It was as if somebody had tried to invent the ultimate prop foul.

Do consider passing the Rose and stopping at the Boat and Horse which puts you a lock and lift bridge closer to the 18 ready for an early start. The Boat does a good cheese pie but is also, I believe, a significant part of the canal history as it had to be demolished and rebuilt to enable the restoration (I need to get my book out to confirm this).

 

If you have no setbacks then you could probably do the Rochdale 9 later the same day, or even get up the Ashton.

 

(The 18 makes Ryders Green and the Walsall canal look like a doddle 😀)

 

Waders is probably a good idea. I didn't realise there were moorings beyond the Rose of Lancaster and it looks a more suitable site.

 

So, the 18 starts at lock 66 then, meaning there's only 16 to get to New Islington??

 

Assuming I can get a secure short term mooring at New Islington I'll likely leave the boat there having spent Monday to Friday getting from Sowerby Bridge to Manchester.

[David Mack]

8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I didn't realise there were moorings beyond the Rose of Lancaster and it looks a more suitable site.

The Boat and Horses is not the most delightful of places, but you can moor directly in front of the pub, and if the weather is OK you can sit on the terrace outside where you can see the boat.

I have also known boats overnight immediately above Fairfield Top Lock.

[Captain Pegg]

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The Boat and Horses is not the most delightful of places, but you can moor directly in front of the pub, and if the weather is OK you can sit on the terrace outside where you can see the boat.

I have also known boats overnight immediately above Fairfield Top Lock.

 

And the Rose of Lancaster is the most delightful of places??

[droshky]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

I'm biassed but I consider the stretch from a little above Todmorden up to the summit to be the most spectacular bit of canal anywhere, so I suggest you go all the way up to the summit.  There is a winding hole on the summit but the length of boat it takes does depend on the water level, otherwise the run down to Littleborough is pretty good. Both Hebden and Todmorden are good towns to visit.