Smoke/steam BMC 1.5 engine

[MtB]

2 hours ago, wandering said:

I had the engine serviced about three weeks ago at a marina before leaving.

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if servicing an engine introduces more faults than it prevents. 

 

Depends on how good (or not) the service technician is.

 

 

 

[wandering]

42 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Not related to your current problems I think,but I notice Morris RingFree VS Plus 10W-40 oil in your post above.

 

If this is being used in the engine I would say it is a particularly poor choice.

 

That oil is designed for high performance turbocharged engines, and certainly not for vintage "clunkers" like the BMC.

 

What is actually needed is something like Morris Classic  Marine oil specifically blended for the low technology of something like a BMC B series engine.

Where could I pick something like that up, out of curiosity ?

 

Looks like the coolant helped. White smoke has stopped. Engine bay is distinctly cooler and engine sounds a little happier too. 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

There is an oil leak on the rocker box, its obvious on the head around the 2 rear injectors. If the same leak is on the other side of the rocker box it will run onto the rear exhaust manifold branch and will stink and smoke.

Needs a new gasket and correct fitting.

How much oil have you had to add to bring it up to the top line on the dip stick? 

[dmr]

25 minutes ago, wandering said:

Where could I pick something like that up, out of curiosity ?

 

Looks like the coolant helped. White smoke has stopped. Engine bay is distinctly cooler and engine sounds a little happier too. 

 

 

How much did you put in?

[wandering]

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

How much did you put in?

I put in 600ml of water and 400ml of antifreeze 6 times in total and it wasn’t enough as I ran out of antifreeze so put in two additional 600ml of water. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by wandering

[dmr]

15 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

There is an oil leak on the rocker box, its obvious on the head around the 2 rear injectors. If the same leak is on the other side of the rocker box it will run onto the rear exhaust manifold branch and will stink and smoke.

Needs a new gasket and correct fitting.

How much oil have you had to add to bring it up to the top line on the dip stick? 

 

I cant think why a leak on one side suggests a leak on the other....except for bad workship, but those cork gaskets are not the easiest to get right.

The oil puddle might be an old one from before the service, but again that does not reflect well on the person doing the service.

Just doing up the rocker box bolts a little might help, those cork gaskets do settle in a bit over time, especially when first fitted.

 

I thought my days of cork gaskets were over years ago when I moved on from BMC engines....but Beta fit one on the JD3  😀 I did it three days ago because it had started to leak.

 

1 minute ago, wandering said:

I put in 600ml of water and 400ml of antifreeze 6 times in total and it wasn’t enough as I ran out of antifreeze so put in two additional 600ml of water. 

 

Oops...so 7 litres, engine was a bit empty.  There is a chance that you have done some damage so keep a close eye on things.

 

So, is this coolant leaking out significantly?   and why did the person doing the service not spot this?   or did he drain the engine and forget to refill it????

[wandering]

26 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

There is an oil leak on the rocker box, its obvious on the head around the 2 rear injectors. If the same leak is on the other side of the rocker box it will run onto the rear exhaust manifold branch and will stink and smoke.

Needs a new gasket and correct fitting.

How much oil have you had to add to bring it up to the top line on the dip stick? 

 Have got the oil nearby and will add it tomorrow so it’s in line with top. On the dipstick the oil sits between the two lines currently

 

[Tracy D'arth]

So the black liquid in the bottom is likely to be 7 litres of water/antifreeze and a pint of black oil floating on the top.

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

So the black liquid in the bottom is likely to be 7 litres of water/antifreeze and a pint of black oil floating on the top.

 

OP said the "engineer" sucked a lot of liquid out...I wonder if he drained the cooling system into the bilge and forgot to refill it?   Its odd to remove that much water/oil and not diagnose where it came from.

Does the OP have an itemised bill for the service ? 😀

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

wandering,

I go through periods of have oil leaks then water leaks that take ages to find. I’ve a similar engine, it’s a BMC 1800. 
 

You must now get in to a daily routine of checking those oil and water levels. 
Record how much oil or water you lose. Never over fill. 
If you can see water in the header tank it usually enough. 
 

Leaks can be a pain to find, one thing is guaranteed, they get worse. Sometimes it’s not obvious til they are pissing out. Usually, fingers crossed, they’re easy to fix. It’s finding them that can be a problem. 
 

You could start be cleaning as much of the oil off the engine as you can by wiping with rags, cloths, blue paper whatever. 

I’ve a shitty black bilge like yours, 😂

good luck 👍 

 

If the rocker cover’s leaking oil it’s an easy fix and you’ll get advice on here.  But clean it first and run engine to find out for sure before taking it off. 
 

Water wise start by checking every hose and see if you can tighten any of the jubilee clips up. look for splits and perished rubber.  

You need to find out how much water and/or oil you loose over a set time. 
 

and as others have said you ought to have a temp gauge 

all comes good in the end 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Goliath

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

OP said the "engineer" sucked a lot of liquid out...I wonder if he drained the cooling system into the bilge and forgot to refill it?   Its odd to remove that much water/oil and not diagnose where it came from.

Does the OP have an itemised bill for the service ? 😀

 

I can be pretty unforgiving of incompetence in tradesmen. I'd say it is not possible to "forget" to refill an engine with coolant when you are the person who drained it off one hour earlier. Especially not when you are there to do it and being paid to do it.

 

I reckon he (big assumption there) didn't forget, but is a sloppy technician who didn't check for coolant leaks. And I agree with Tracy, there will prolly be 10 litres of coolant sloshing in the engine tray with the thinnest layer of old black engine oil floating on top. 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

21 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

OP said the "engineer" sucked a lot of liquid out...I wonder if he drained the cooling system into the bilge and forgot to refill it?   Its odd to remove that much water/oil and not diagnose where it came from.

Does the OP have an itemised bill for the service ? 😀

I had my black stuff sucked out at Great Haywood. 
mix of oil, antifreeze, diesel and water. 
Found several spanners, socket wrench x 2, dip stick. 
Still drying out now. 
Lots of old towels to lift out the remaining black stuff. 

It’ll take a few months to dry proper. 

[Peugeot 106]

11 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I had my black stuff sucked out at Great Haywood. 
mix of oil, antifreeze, diesel and water. 
Found several spanners, socket wrench x 2, dip stick. 
Still drying out now. 
Lots of old towels to lift out the remaining black stuff. 

It’ll take a few months to dry proper. 

Incontinence pads are brilliant for soaking and cleaning up oil and water. It’s amazing how much one pad will soak up and you can buy them from discount shops.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

8 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Incontinence pads are brilliant for soaking and cleaning up oil and water. It’s amazing how much one pad will soak up and you can buy them from discount shops.

I suppose I could recycle mine 😬

 

 

[Peugeot 106]

10 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I suppose I could recycle mine 😬

 

 

I hope not after mopping up the oil. You’d better start buying black underpants

[wandering]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I can be pretty unforgiving of incompetence in tradesmen. I'd say it is not possible to "forget" to refill an engine with coolant when you are the person who drained it off one hour earlier. Especially not when you are there to do it and being paid to do it.

 

I reckon he (big assumption there) didn't forget, but is a sloppy technician who didn't check for coolant leaks. And I agree with Tracy, there will prolly be 10 litres of coolant sloshing in the engine tray with the thinnest layer of old black engine oil floating on top. 

 

 

This was a service which was 14 hours of labour over a month because of injectors needing replaced, apparently. Paid 1100 pounds. 
 

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

So the black liquid in the bottom is likely to be 7 litres of water/antifreeze and a pint of black oil floating on the top.

Now that you mention it the leak looks clear as day. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by wandering

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, wandering said:

This was a service which was 14 hours of labour over a month because of injectors needing replaced, apparently. Paid 1100 pounds. 

 

14 hours of labour for a service and new/recon injectors is really taking the pish. Even I'm not that expensive. 

[wandering]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

OP said the "engineer" sucked a lot of liquid out...I wonder if he drained the cooling system into the bilge and forgot to refill it?   Its odd to remove that much water/oil and not diagnose where it came from.

Does the OP have an itemised bill for the service ? 😀

 A leak was identified when the man looked at it. I was told this should be found before the service was completed. I said fix the leak. I was then told I needed 4 new injectors. I was informed the leak stopped. When work was entering its final week I asked how long is left because it has taken weeks. Then he cleaned up and I was told it was done.  

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

14 hours of labour for a service and new/recon injectors is really taking the pish. Even I'm not that expensive. 

And the leak has not stopped. I was told a service cost 250 but the leak then lead to the further cost. Let me grab the invoice. 

5 hours ago, bizzard said:

Do you have an engine coolant temperature gauge ?

Added to the list

Edited April 6, 2023 by wandering

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Not related to your current problems I think,but I notice Morris RingFree VS Plus 10W-40 oil in your post above.

 

If this is being used in the engine I would say it is a particularly poor choice.

 

That oil is designed for high performance turbocharged engines, and certainly not for vintage "clunkers" like the BMC.

 

What is actually needed is something like Morris Classic  Marine oil specifically blended for the low technology of something like a BMC B series engine.

 

20 minutes ago, wandering said:

 

 

The invoice says Morris 10W40 Classic oil, which as Alan noted is not what is in your photo. It should look like this.

[wandering]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

The invoice says Morris 10W40 Classic oil, which as Alan noted is not what is in your photo. It should look like this.

Cheers. Will pick some of that up 

[Tracy D'arth]

Sucked dry and spat out. You have been had.

[wandering]

8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Sucked dry and spat out. You have been had.

Thought as much! Beginner naïveté is big business!

[Tony Brooks]

I think that you can get silicon rocker cover gaskets for those engines. They do not dry out and distort like the cork ones do, but still stick it to the rocker cover. It is just two but "bolts" by the lifting eyes to undo to get the rocker cover off. Be wary about overtightening the fixing bolts because you can distort the cover.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, wandering said:

Thought as much! Beginner naïveté is big business!

 

 

Amazing how well you can type, with those paws of yours....

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, wandering said:

Thought as much! Beginner naïveté is big business!

 

Don't feel too bad, unfortunately it seems to happen far too frequently. How anyone can claim 14 hours for a service and injector change is beyond me, unless there was more work than listed. Even if they had their own pump room and overhauled the injectors themselves it still seems way, way too much time - especially as they seem to have caused an oil leak or failed to find it and fix it.

 

I would just observe that when I tried to help someone avoid what looked like a setup for a similar experience a week ago I got insulted and berated for my efforts.