Hi All

[magnetman]

Just now, IanD said:

 

If you're going backwards with suicide seats and hit something you're quite likely to end up diving in head first... 😉

Very nasty to be in water behind a boat with a propeller turning in reverse gear with nobody at the helm. 

 

Presumably people who have up to date modern well designed boats will have a tag of some sort about their person with a cord or a proximity sensor to stop the prime mover if the steerer becomes socially distant.

 

 

 

 

[Lily Rose]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

If you're going backwards with suicide seats and hit something you're quite likely to end up diving in head first... 😉

 

I often go backwards and I have suicide seats but I minimise the risk of unintentionally diving in head first by only sitting on them when I'm moored up. And rarely even then.

[magnetman]

Are these suicide seats wired to high voltage electric supply? If not I am unsure as to their effectiveness while the craft is not in motion.

[Lily Rose]

In my view they are totally ineffective as a method of suicide. Unless you sit on them whilst the boat is moving.

 

I hadn't thought of wiring them to a high voltage supply but then I didn't have them added to my boat, they were already there when I bought it and I hadn't realised what their purpose was until I started reading stuff on this forum. There must be more reliable forms of suicide than these seats though and which don't involve the initial outlay of tens of thousands of GBPs.

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, PD1964 said:

Diesel is available on the canals from Marina’s, no need to go to the garage and lug Jerry Cans around, prices have dropped lately, cheapest I’ve seen £1:10 a Ltr up to £1:40.

Those prices would seem to be for the "domestic use" (heating and charging batteries) element which attracts 5% duty. The propulsion element of each litre attracts a further £0.53 approximately.

 

It is up to each boater to determine the split between the two but HMRC suggest 40% domestic and 60% propulsion would go unchallenged.

[Lily Rose]

8 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Those prices would seem to be for the "domestic use" (heating and charging batteries) element which attracts 5% duty. The propulsion element of each litre attracts a further £0.53 approximately.

 

It is up to each boater to determine the split between the two but HMRC suggest 40% domestic and 60% propulsion would go unchallenged.

 

For some reason I had it in my head that it was 70/30, not 60/40 (which I always think of as the traditional balanced portfolio of stocks and bonds). Maybe I've never gone for a 60/40 split (in diesel purchase or investments), I don't remember doing so anyway.

 

Do they ever challenge any self-declared splits?

 

ETA: isn't 60/40 domestic/propulsion rather than the other way round?

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Lily Rose

[mightyslay3r]

👍

28 minutes ago, cuthound said:

It is up to each boater to determine the split between the two but HMRC suggest 40% domestic and 60% propulsion would go unchallenged.

 

[enigmatic]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

That was plan. But there is no legislation  in place to make it happen, and I can't see this government (or the next) finding time to progress it any time soon.

Can't see the "being capable of being converted to zero emission propulsion" making any practical difference anyway, least of all to canal boats with loads of room for battery banks. You've make a boat with a propellor shaft attached to an engine. The engine is removable and can be swapped for a different type of engine if and when it's a good idea or necessary to do so

[Lily Rose]

6 hours ago, mightyslay3r said:

going to read through all of the other threads today.. to pick up tips, advice & general knowledge ... thanks guys

 

 

As well as reading various threads on Canalworld you might also find it useful to have a read of some of the articles on Paul Smith's website. He no longer sends out regular email newsletters or writes new articles for the website but he does still do his one day training courses (just south of Rugby) for people thinking of buying a narrow boat for leisure or liveaboard. Going on one of these would probably be money well spent but it may be a bit too far away from you. Maybe there are similar services in the north, I don't know.

 

Anyway, irrespective of that you should find his articles to be a source of useful information and, as a bonus, they are often very amusing.

 

https://livingonanarrowboat.co.uk/

 

[magnetman]

Also a very cool range of quality designer clothing. 

[mightyslay3r]

3 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

 

As well as reading various threads on Canalworld you might also find it useful to have a read of some of the articles on Paul Smith's website. He no longer sends out regular email newsletters or writes new articles for the website but he does still do his one day training courses (just south of Rugby) for people thinking of buying a narrow boat for leisure or liveaboard. Going on one of these would probably be money well spent but it may be a bit too far away from you. Maybe there are similar services in the north, I don't know.

 

Anyway, irrespective of that you should find his articles to be a source of useful information and, as a bonus, they are often very amusing.

 

https://livingonanarrowboat.co.uk/

 

thanks Lily Rose

[Lily Rose]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Also a very cool range of quality designer clothing. 

 

For people with more money than sense. The other fella caters for people with more sense than money.

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Lily Rose said:

 

For some reason I had it in my head that it was 70/30, not 60/40 (which I always think of as the traditional balanced portfolio of stocks and bonds). Maybe I've never gone for a 60/40 split (in diesel purchase or investments), I don't remember doing so anyway.

 

Do they ever challenge any self-declared splits?

 

ETA: isn't 60/40 domestic/propulsion rather than the other way round?

 

 

I usually split 50/50 or 60/40 domestic/propulsion depending on how much I've used the heating, but then I have a diesel Webasto and diesel oil drip stove. I've just started running the stove on kerosene as it hs it's own tank. It is cheaper but I have to collect it by car in 20 litre containers.

 

No, see this article by HMRC.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fuel-used-in-private-pleasure-craft-and-for-private-pleasure-flying-excise-notice-554#:~:text=Analysis by both the industry,will declare such an apportionment.

Edited March 3, 2023 by cuthound
Clarification

[magnetman]

I claim a reasonable amount of tax free diesel under the emotional support allowance. Its a great saving. 

 

 

[Lily Rose]

10 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

thanks Lily Rose

 

Just came across this link which might be useful.  https://livingonanarrowboat.co.uk/category/newsletter-archive/

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

No, see this article by HMRC.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fuel-used-in-private-pleasure-craft-and-for-private-pleasure-flying-excise-notice-554#:~:text=Analysis by both the industry,will declare such an apportionment.

 

Thanks. I remember originally thinking 60% was propulsion but something or someone changed my mind. I can't remember what/who it was but clearly it was wrong.

[mightyslay3r]

32 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

 

Just came across this link which might be useful.  https://livingonanarrowboat.co.uk/category/newsletter-archive/

thats a lot of reading.. bookmarked it.. thanks again Lily Rose

am i right in thinking, has i read a few sections of the write up... that maned locks (with a watch tower) have to be booked in advance... if so, i didnt know that so its now given me a better idea  

Edited March 3, 2023 by mightyslay3r

[PD1964]

35 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

thats a lot of reading.. bookmarked it.. thanks again Lily Rose

am i right in thinking, has i read a few sections of the write up... that maned locks (with a watch tower) have to be booked in advance... if so, i didnt know that so its now given me a better idea  

Most of the electric locks with watch tower on the Yorkshire navigation are not booked in advance and are normally self operating. The locks which need pre booking for passage are the locks at Keadby, West Stockwith, Torksey and Cromwell for moving on the River Trent. Also the Locks at Selby and Naburn for passage to and from York basically. They usually require at least 24hr notice.

Worth knowing the lock light signal system when your moving, as sometimes the electric locks are manned through the day😀👍

Edited March 3, 2023 by PD1964

[IanD]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

Can't see the "being capable of being converted to zero emission propulsion" making any practical difference anyway, least of all to canal boats with loads of room for battery banks. You've make a boat with a propellor shaft attached to an engine. The engine is removable and can be swapped for a different type of engine if and when it's a good idea or necessary to do so

 

Swapping a diesel engine for electric motor + batteries is the easy bit. The difficult bit is where the energy comes from to charge said batteries.

 

As so often the government has made a big noise about doing the easy bit -- making boaters do it, and pay for it! -- while ignoring the difficult bit, which would mean them actually doing something (and paying for it).

 

Why am I not surprised? 😞

[mightyslay3r]

47 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Most of the electric locks with watch tower on the Yorkshire navigation are not booked in advance and are normally self operating. The locks which need pre booking for passage are the locks at Keadby, West Stockwith, Torksey and Cromwell for moving on the River Trent. Also the Locks at Selby and Naburn for passage to and from York basically. They usually require at least 24hr notice.

Worth knowing the lock light signal system when your moving, as sometimes the electric locks are manned through the day😀👍

👍😉

5 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

👍😉

good to know.. naburn, selby & york will probably be on our travel plans

[MtB]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

Swapping a diesel engine for electric motor + batteries is the easy bit. The difficult bit is where the energy comes from to charge said batteries.

 

 

That's dead easy. A whacking great diesel genny hidden somewhere inside the boat.

 

This MUST be ok as CRT see nothing wrong with it when it comes to giving the licence discount for  "Electric Propulsion" boats. And CRT must know more about this than lowly little me, obviously.

 

I would hope so anyway.... 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by MtB
Fiddle with it...

[mightyslay3r]

22 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

That's dead easy. A whacking great diesel genny hidden somewhere inside the boat.

 

This MUST be ok as CRT see nothing wrong with it when it comes to giving the licence discount for  "Electric Propulsion" boats And CRT must know more about this than lowly little me, obviously.

 

I would hope so anyway.... 

exactly... its what people with electric work vans are having to do if they have to really travel to get to the work place.... pull over & crank the genny up lol.... 

sad state of affairs when diesel is being run out.. but need it to charge lol

[enigmatic]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

No, see this article by HMRC.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fuel-used-in-private-pleasure-craft-and-for-private-pleasure-flying-excise-notice-554#:~:text=Analysis by both the industry,will declare such an apportionment.

 

Though if you do try to declare 60% propulsion, most canalside vendors will say "don't you mean the other way round?"

[magnetman]

One day songs of diesel romance will be sung by people looking to wind back the clock. 

 

Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end...

 

a Mary Hopkin sort of song. 

 

Once upon a time there was an engine, where we used to burn a gallon or two...

 

Being able to burn the burny burny things with gay abandon and the wonderful freedom to consume will be lamented very badly by those who experienced the real liberation of go juice and gradually had it taken away from them under the pretence of saving an already doomed planet. 

 

It will be a song of immense joy, tinged with awful sadness which is ultimately insurmountable even by very powerful electric motors. 

 

It just ain't the same. 

 

 

 

 

 

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One day songs of diesel romance will be sung by people looking to wind back the clock. 

 

Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end...

 

a Mary Hopkin sort of song. 

 

Once upon a time there was an engine, where we used to burn a gallon or two...

 

Being able to burn the burny burny things with gay abandon and the wonderful freedom to consume will be lamented very badly by those who experienced the real liberation of go juice and gradually had it taken away from them under the pretence of saving an already doomed planet. 

 

It will be a song of immense joy, tinged with awful sadness which is ultimately insurmountable even by very powerful electric motors. 

 

It just ain't the same. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is already true, when we started serious proper boating (rather than the stuff that makes you seasick) we had proper diesel full of sulphur that made a proper lovely exhaust smell. A while ago I started using HVO (till it got hard to get) and although it burns well and possibly helps to delay planetary doom, it just don't smell right.I liked the old days.  As we are all doomed maybe we should just have fun 😀

[Tacet]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Governemnt planned "Marine Zero Emissions"

 

By 2025 any boat built for use in UK waters (sea and inland) must be capable of being converted to zero emission propulsion

By 2035 NO boat can be built for use in UK waters (sea and inland) that does not have zero emission propulsion

By 2050 no boats that are not zero emission propulsion can be used on UK waters (sea and inland)

 

This is why (apparently) the majority of new narrowboats being built now are capable of being converted or are already zero emission (electric) propulsion.

 

Does this affect your long term plans ?
Were you aware of this ?

When do you expect the necessary legislation to be enacted? 2025 will soon be upon us and quite probably work has commenced on some boats that are not even expected to be completed before then.

 

No doubt rules will be tightened but these are currently plans, not law and it looks to me as even the first and mildest will not be introduced on time.