Not looking good for us

[magnetman]

13 minutes ago, Goliath said:

And maybe he’s smiling because he’s ‘feathered his own bed’ for his future residential home and care 

 

The position of Trustee on a charity's board does not come with remuneration. It is normally for cv or personal reasons.

 

That doesn't mean ther isn't money in it though.

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

The position of Trustee on a charity's board does not come with remuneration. It is normally for cv or personal reasons.

 

That doesn't mean ther isn't money in it though.

 

 

ooh I know, I know,

 

I was referring to his previous history and his position in housing in general and maybe he feathered his own bed long ago

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Now back to the OP, and Granny Bitcoin: 

 

We’re still waiting on Government/DEFRA and whether they’ll continue the grant or no, or whether hopefully they’ll UP the grant!

 

Decision should have been made in July but we now have to wait til Easter?

 

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Now back to the OP, and Granny Bitcoin: 

 

We’re still waiting on Government/DEFRA and whether they’ll continue the grant or no, or whether hopefully they’ll UP the grant!

 

Decision should have been made in July but we now have to wait til Easter?

 

 

Until we get somebody like Barbara Castle making the decision, I think any significant increase in the government grant is unlikely in the extreme... 😞

 

https://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news/countryfile/2240834.how-barbara-castle-saved-our-canals/

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2002/may/11/guardianobituaries.obituaries

"Now three new canals are being built, years of engineering deficiencies rectified, and there is a rededication of major features underway throughout the UK. From Scotland's Caledonian Canal to the majestic flight of locks at Devizes on the Kennet and Avon canal, waterside life and commercial development are surging back. There is even a unique hydraulic bridge about to be opened on a restored urban canal in Scotland. The Anderton lift is working again, raising boats in the northwest of England from river to canal.

It was Barbara Castle's particular vision that set the pattern which has retained 2,000 miles of these waterways and their special ambience."

Edited February 13, 2023 by IanD

[Arthur Marshall]

The purpose of hiring KPMG, or any other consultants who know where their money comes from, is to get a report that says what you want it to.  It's nothing to do with fact finding or proper analysis. That's why governments, and big business in general, always get duff advice. It's what they're paying for.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

That's not what Alan just posted... 😉

The document that Alan is refering to is, I think, the 2011 KPMG report commissioned by British Waterways to 'prove' that CRT funding was viable rather than document the backlog of maintenance work. 

Alan is right about the total, however. In 2007, BW commissioned KPMG (again!) to write a Status Options review. This was designed to consider how BW might gain financial advantage from a different legal status.

The briefing document from James Froomberg states that in the early 2000´s BW had a safety critical backlog of about £300m but with additional government funding they had reduced that to £100m. Froomburg also said they had a backlog of £100m non safety critical work.

KPMG agreed the £200m backlog figure. The main takeaways from the report were that BW were underspending against its steady state model by £29m in England and Wales and that this would continue to grow without additional funding even if a different status was adopted.

The steady state model predicts how much needs to be spent to keep the system in condition that neither improving nor degrading. The underspend against the model is known as the funding gap.

Returning to the 2011 KPMG report, a BW director, Jim Stirling spent getting on for two years massaging the steady state model and KPMG were not allowed to check his figures.

Suffice to say the later KPMG report made no mention of the earlier one.

CRT attempted to get an extra £160m out of government to deal with its safety critical backlog and now say that this has increased to £200m.

I would estimate the total backlog today as about double the 2007 figure.

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

The document that Alan is refering to is, I think, the 2011 KPMG report commissioned by British Waterways to 'prove' that CRT funding was viable rather than document the backlog of maintenance work. 

Alan is right about the total, however. In 2007, BW commissioned KPMG (again!) to write a Status Options review. This was designed to consider how BW might gain financial advantage from a different legal status.

The briefing document from James Froomberg states that in the early 2000´s BW had a safety critical backlog of about £300m but with additional government funding they had reduced that to £100m. Froomburg also said they had a backlog of £100m non safety critical work.

KPMG agreed the £200m backlog figure. The main takeaways from the report were that BW were underspending against its steady state model by £29m in England and Wales and that this would continue to grow without additional funding even if a different status was adopted.

The steady state model predicts how much needs to be spent to keep the system in condition that neither improving nor degrading. The underspend against the model is known as the funding gap.

Returning to the 2011 KPMG report, a BW director, Jim Stirling spent getting on for two years massaging the steady state model and KPMG were not allowed to check his figures.

Suffice to say the later KPMG report made no mention of the earlier one.

CRT attempted to get an extra £160m out of government to deal with its safety critical backlog and now say that this has increased to £200m.

I would estimate the total backlog today as about double the 2007 figure.

 

Very possibly, hence my suggestion that something like a 50% funding increase for CART is needed -- given the steady-state shortfall (probably closer to £50M/year today given recent cost increases and inflation) which might eat up getting on for half this, it would still take maybe 10 years to catch up with the backlog...

 

This is what happens when you underfund infrastructure expenditure for *many* years... 😞

Edited February 13, 2023 by IanD

[Allan(nb Albert)]

23 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Now back to the OP, and Granny Bitcoin: 

 

We’re still waiting on Government/DEFRA and whether they’ll continue the grant or no, or whether hopefully they’ll UP the grant!

 

Decision should have been made in July but we now have to wait til Easter?

 

I think Rebecca Pow is on record as saying that government is looking how best to taper off grant ...

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Allan(nb Albert)

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Maybe I’m playing advocate here but:

 

I can set out for Limehouse tomorrow and be there in 10 days(?), I can be in Wales in 3 days, I can endlessly go around the BCN, what is this  back log stopping navigation?

 

 

north is a different ball game with the water issues, Macclesfield and the Todbrook issue apart. 

what is this back log of maintenance that isn’t being dealt with ? 

 

I daren’t say it, but it is working, unless I go North. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Goliath

[Mad Harold]

21 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Maybe I’m playing advocate here but:

 

I can set out for Limehouse tomorrow and be there in 10 days(?), I can be in Wales in 3 days, I can endlessly go around the BCN, what is this  back log stopping navigation?

 

 

north is a different ball game with the water issues, Macclesfield and the Todbrook issue apart. 

what is this back log of maintenance that isn’t being dealt with ? 

 

I daren’t say it, but it is working, unless I go North. 

Well the answer seems to be.. SHUT ALL THE NORTHERN CANALS.

And leave all the southern ones.

That's levelling up for you!

 

I seem to remember that you once said that the HNC was one of your fave canals.😪

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Maybe I’m playing advocate here but:

 

I can set out for Limehouse tomorrow and be there in 10 days(?), I can be in Wales in 3 days, I can endlessly go around the BCN, what is this  back log stopping navigation?

 

 

north is a different ball game with the water issues, Macclesfield and the Todbrook issue apart. 

what is this back log of maintenance that isn’t being dealt with ? 

 

I daren’t say it, but it is working, unless I go North. 

 

 

One example :

 

Dredging of the canals and rivers does not meet C&RTs own 'dredging requirement documentation'.

[Momac]

 

[magnetman]

38 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Maybe I’m playing advocate here but:

 

I can set out for Limehouse tomorrow and be there in 10 days(?), I can be in Wales in 3 days, I can endlessly go around the BCN, what is this  back log stopping navigation?

 

 

north is a different ball game with the water issues, Macclesfield and the Todbrook issue apart. 

what is this back log of maintenance that isn’t being dealt with ? 

 

I daren’t say it, but it is working, unless I go North. 

 

I wonder if it might be related to standard maintenance carried out during the winter. if this maintenance didn't happen then presumably there would be an acceleration in the failure rate of basic things like culverts, locks and aqueducts.

 

There could be an elfin safety thing going on and an obligation to keep things safe. If the obligation to keep things safe ends up taking the money and you don't have money for actual routine maintenance then this could presumably cause issues.

 

I don't know as I don't do canal cruising any more but how long would things go on as they are with serious funding cuts?

 

Maybe its all fine and there is a doom and gloom problem driven by fuddy duddies. Not implausible.

[Momac]

16 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Well the answer seems to be.. SHUT ALL THE NORTHERN CANALS.

And leave all the southern ones.

That's levelling up for you!

Shut the southern canals as they seem to be in good nick . Focus all attention on the northern canals

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

Well the answer seems to be.. SHUT ALL THE NORTHERN CANALS.

And leave all the southern ones.

That's levelling up for you!

 

I seem to remember that you once said that the HNC was one of your fave canals.😪

it is a very favourite canal

i love it for many many reasons
 

 I spent a year and more on the HNC,

and saw CRT waste so much money revisiting their repairs. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Goliath
So no , I’d never want the northern canals shut

[Midnight]

47 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Well the answer seems to be.. SHUT ALL THE NORTHERN CANALS.

.

They already have 😜

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Midnight said:

They already have 😜

 

 

Well I hope you lot don't come down here and overpopulate our working southern canals. And start moaning about how all the locks seem to work! 

 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

29 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

I wonder if it might be related to standard maintenance carried out during the winter. if this maintenance didn't happen then presumably there would be an acceleration in the failure rate of basic things like culverts, locks and aqueducts.

 

There could be an elfin safety thing going on and an obligation to keep things safe. If the obligation to keep things safe ends up taking the money and you don't have money for actual routine maintenance then this could presumably cause issues.

 

I don't know as I don't do canal cruising any more but how long would things go on as they are with serious funding cuts?

 

Maybe its all fine and there is a doom and gloom problem driven by fuddy duddies. Not implausible.

The £200m safety critical backlog relates to high risk assets. These are ones that can cause death and/or extensive damage if they fail. There are about 150 projects.

[magnetman]

bye bye lock maintenance then

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

.............................. And start moaning about how all the locks seem to work! 

 

 Wot!! You have locks that work???
You'll be telling me you have bridges that open next.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 Wot!! You have locks that work???
You'll be telling me you have bridges that open next.

 

Do you reckon they'll even have canals with "reel, wet, watter" ?

[Midnight]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you reckon they'll even have canals with "reel, wet, watter" ?

 

Canals with water in them???? Now I know you're joking.

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

Canals with water in them???? Now I know you're joking.

 

No - I've seen pictures, honest !

[Midnight]

22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No - I've seen pictures, honest !

.... bugger and I've just had this built. 'NB Yorkshire' complete with dry canal cruise control, swing bridge opener and lock crane.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Midnight

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

 Wot!! You have locks that work???
You'll be telling me you have bridges that open next.

 

 

Nah just kidding. 

 

No point in you lot migrating darn sarf. Deffly not. Nuffin to see here....