Best place in England / Mooring- for having a midlife crisis!

[Robby789]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Have you actually got this boat that you have been given and been on it.  Is it fully fitted out ready to go. You keep mentioning residential moorings but they are like hens teeth, the best you can hope for is a leisure mooring that let you live on 24/7 but you may need to take the boat out for the odd week or two to keep them happy. That way you may have a washing machine and showers/toilets, almost certainly electricity on a meter and water. If you have a pumpout that will be something extra to pay for but a portapoty you will be able to empty for free.

 

Hi DITCHCRAWLER, yes, i have been on it, and yes ready to go. A lot of info been given by your good selves so i will be looking into all this. I mention Res.moorings because i assume for a total newbie..keep it as simple as possible at first, and get a job..which..again will look into...but Res. mooring gives me the all important 'address' needed. Maybe the Lesiure moorings doesnt give me that option? if so..that will be problematic.  I really hope i can find Res.mooring...as i am ...flexible..right now re where i lay my hat so to speak.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Robby789

[Paul C]

My advice is to do this:

 

1. Declutter. You're selling the house in another country? Don't bother with storage, be ruthless and get rid of items you won't need, especially big bulky stuff. Sell tools and anything valuable etc on eBay or similar

2. Get on the boat ASAP, take the basics of living ie warm clothes, mobile, charger(s), etc, just get on it ASAP. This will save any short-term rental costs in the interim once you've sold the house.

**** If it really doesn't work out, get yourself into an Airbnb and re-evaluate everything!!! ****

3. You'll soon realise where to focus your mind on first. For example, if the fridge doesn't work, or the alternator isn't charging....fix it.

4. Don't worry too much about the address, just use your parent's one for now. Not much 'admin' stuff is actually essential, but you might need it for receiving eg a bank card or other official documents. Employers won't be bothered with a c/o address that's miles away, they just want to fill in the box on the form(s) they have.

 

Give yourself a couple of weeks, then start looking for work, choose say 3 areas to focus on. That will determine where to moor. Just do the CC licence declaration for now, it might be a month or three but you'll easily meet the movement criteria while moving towards your chosen location. But at the same time, start seriously looking at marinas too. It might be a nice marina place comes up before the job, or the other way round.

 

Its coming up to spring/summer, you've got about 9 months to settle in nicely before winter 23/24.

[ditchcrawler]

19 minutes ago, Robby789 said:

Hi Ditchwater, yes, i have been on it, and yes ready to go. A lot of info been given by your good selves so i will be looking into all this. I mention Res.moorings because i assume for a total newbie..keep it as simple as possible at first, and get a job..which..again will look into...but Res. mooring gives me the all important 'address' needed. Maybe the Lesiure moorings doesnt give me that option? if so..that will be problematic.  I really hope i can find Res.mooring...as i am ...flexible..right now re where i lay my hat so to speak.

Rugby Narrowboats were advertising one on the North Oxford

[David Mack]

35 minutes ago, Robby789 said:

Hi Ditchwater, yes, i have been on it...

???

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Have you actually got this boat that you have been given and been on it. 

 

56 minutes ago, Robby789 said:

Hi DITCHCRAWLER, yes, i have been on it, and yes ready to go.

 

 

20 minutes ago, David Mack said:

???

 

[Robby789]

40 minutes ago, Paul C said:

My advice is to do this:

 

1. Declutter. You're selling the house in another country? Don't bother with storage, be ruthless and get rid of items you won't need, especially big bulky stuff. Sell tools and anything valuable etc on eBay or similar

2. Get on the boat ASAP, take the basics of living ie warm clothes, mobile, charger(s), etc, just get on it ASAP. This will save any short-term rental costs in the interim once you've sold the house.

**** If it really doesn't work out, get yourself into an Airbnb and re-evaluate everything!!! ****

3. You'll soon realise where to focus your mind on first. For example, if the fridge doesn't work, or the alternator isn't charging....fix it.

4. Don't worry too much about the address, just use your parent's one for now. Not much 'admin' stuff is actually essential, but you might need it for receiving eg a bank card or other official documents. Employers won't be bothered with a c/o address that's miles away, they just want to fill in the box on the form(s) they have.

 

Give yourself a couple of weeks, then start looking for work, choose say 3 areas to focus on. That will determine where to moor. Just do the CC licence declaration for now, it might be a month or three but you'll easily meet the movement criteria while moving towards your chosen location. But at the same time, start seriously looking at marinas too. It might be a nice marina place comes up before the job, or the other way round.

 

Its coming up to spring/summer, you've got about 9 months to settle in nicely before winter 23/24.

Paul C   - i am liking your post! 

 

 

( appoligies Ditch -for username mistake )

[Tony1]

 

This is maybe a long shot Robby, but worth looking into. 

 

A leisure mooring will cost about £1500 per year up North, and will allow you to keep the boat in one location, near to your workplace. 

In some locations (not all) it does look as if CRT do not monitor how many days per year the boats are lived on. So as long as you keep a low profile, don't put stuff out on the towpath, etc, it may be that you could stay on the boat almost the whole year, with say a few weeks off in winter, may be to go visiting friends and family.

There are no guarantees with this, and for all I know CRT could send you an email saying you need to spend fewer night aboard- they may even have a specific number of nights per year that defines the term  'leisure use'.  But its worth looking into, as they are much more common than full time residential moorings. 

 

You can use Expost or Boatmail to give you an official address, apparently even a bank will accept those addresses, so that might be covered. 

 

There are currently two CRT leisure moorings available for less than £1500 per year near to the recycling centre just north of Middlewich.

So they are within cycling distance of Northwich and Winsford, which have good transport links and probably plenty of job vacancies.

There's even road access via the recycling centre road, so no need to trudge through six inches of towpath mud to get anywhere during the winter. 

 

There's a water tap just a few hundred yards away, and there's a shower and facilities block at Anderton, about 2 hours cruising to the north west. 

There's a fuel boat that passes every few weeks so you can keep stocked up with the all important coal (and diesel) during the winter, without even leaving your boat.

If you check out the CRT website you'll find a range of other moorings. There's even one at Nantwich, but I think its less than 30 feet long, so that's no use if your boat is a more usual size of 55-60ft.

But the list of available leisure moorings might be worth a look.  The problem is whether to take a chance on buying one of these morrings, and then finding out it is a place they are keeping an eye on, which makes full time living aboard a bit difficult. My guess would be that if its a quieter location, and not close to any CRT offices or facilities, you might be ok. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Tony1

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

A leisure mooring will cost about £1500 per year up North,

 

But it should be made clear to the OP that this is just to tie up on the canal bank - there will be no electricity supply and he has to take a 4 hour cruise every couple of weeks (? or more if he has a big tank) to empty the toilet.

Have you tried carrying 500 litres of water (500kg)  'a few hundred yards' when the canal is frozen ?

 

I would suggest, as someone totally new, that he should get a mooring, in a marina, where the facilities and help are close at hand and accept that the £3000 for a leisure mooring or £5000(?) for a residential mooring is part of the price of learning how to live on, & 'run', a canal boat.

[David Mack]

32 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

In some locations (not all) it does look as if CRT do not monitor how many days per year the boats are lived on.

CRT monitor boat movement. As far as I am aware they do not monitor boat occupation at all.

[Tony1]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But it should be made clear to the OP that this is just to tie up on the canal bank - there will be no electricity supply and he has to take a 4 hour cruise every couple of weeks (? or more if he has a big tank) to empty the toilet.

Have you tried carrying 500 litres of water (500kg)  'a few hundred yards' when the canal is frozen ?

 

I would suggest, as someone totally new, that he should get a mooring, in a marina, where the facilities and help are close at hand and accept that the £3000 for a leisure mooring or £5000(?) for a residential mooring is part of the price of learning how to live on, & 'run', a canal boat.

 

Good point about the electricity not being hooked up, the OP might not know that. 

That said, a £300 generator and a few gallons of petrol each week would resolve it, if you don't want to just run the engine each day to recharge.

Solar could be a great help- Yesterday, in very mixed weather, I got 70Ah worth of charge from my panels, so even in February they are already starting to make a decent contribution, and reducing the need for engine running.

One issue with those example moorings I mentioned are that they are overlooked by trees on both sides, so solar power will be limited. 

It's all a balancing act really, and my sense is that being in a fixed location and being to get to a fixed workplace is a high priority, as is saving money. 

 

But yes, Robby certainly needs to be clear that with the leisure mooring you are basically paying the fee to be able to leave your boat in one place. The moorings above are just places on the towpath. 

 

I think the thing about freezing canals applies to any CCer really, it generally only happens once or twice a winter, its only usually for a few days, and you work around it by filling up etc ahead of the freezing weather. I dont personally think its a reason to give up on the idea of a leisure mooring and cost saving that gives- but that said, only the OP will be able to set all the priorities against each other and balance them for his own needs. 

 

If I remember correctly, I think the OP has already ruled out a marina mooring on cost grounds? 

My suspicion is that he's going to need to conserve his funds to do things to the boat that make it more comfortable, and the marina money would suck all that money up. 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Tony1

[Tacet]

Lots of useful advice here.  For my part, the attraction to boating is the moving-on part; we enjoy both the travel and the changes of places.  Moving frequently reduces the pressures on electricity generation, water filling, toilet emptying and even shopping etc.  Personally, I can't see much fun in living on a boat in  a largely fixed location - other than possible cheapness.  If you are living on a boat through largely economic circumstances, you might find the inherent restrictions very annoying.

 

When we lived aboard life was a lot easier and simpler than some posters seem to have found it; frankly there were no real difficulties and certainly no more than the usual hassle of life.  We were in good health, early 1950s 50s and whilst I worked (a bit) it was mostly on the boat.  If you need to be at the same place for work regularly, it would be a different.  Similarly, we were not strapped for cash. 

 

Ours was a sound, mid-range boat with no real problems, which is relatively important.  I was probably a bit fortunate in the purchase as it proved to be a better (albeit not cheap) boat than my level of naivety merited.  On the other hand, I had 40 years holiday boating experience on some very under-specified boats so I had a good idea of the various practicalities - so no surprises. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Tacet

[Beo]

You might want to consider the bottom of the Trent and Mersey and Erewash canals. Sawley marina is near (walking distance) to a huuuge Aldi distribution centre and only a bus ride from Long Eaton (then links via bus or train to Nottingham and Derby) and Castle Donington which now seems to consist entirely of large grey warehouses/distribution centres. Sandiacre on the Erewash has bus links to Nottingham and Derby. 

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Tacet said:

If you need to be at the same place for work regularly, it would be a different.  Similarly, we were not strapped for cash. 

 

That is always 'the elephant in the room' - the OP has suggested he will need to work to fund the lifestyle, and is even looking at shelf stacking at Tesco or Aldi.

If he is CCing and having to move every few days (and he does not drive) he will have an increasingly lengthening, expensive & more difficult commute to work as the boat gets further and futher away from the start point.

 

I doubt that Tesco would accept a 'roving shelf stacker' employee working in one store for a week or two, then moving to another town / Store for a week or two, then moving to another town / Store for a week or two .............................................

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Tacet said:

We were in good health, early 1950s and whilst I worked (a bit) it was mostly on the boat.

 

 

70 years ago !!!

Things have changed a bit since then.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Robby789]

Tony1 and others thanks for this , further reading indeed required. As a newbie, mooring towpath etc, i dont want to go down the 'keeping head down' route - just yet! - not that i have money to burn, but fully expect to pay upwards of £3000 - so - for now - whilst starting out a couple of years of more mooring at an offical spot I would prefer. Just aware of 'hens teeth' comments - which is a shame, but as mentioned, i am open to any routes really ( although aware avoiding midlands limits it a little ) and no car/ getting job etc - all make it more akward.

 

But still, postive, do-able comments, liking it, options, nothings ideal, nice to be aware of pitfalls in the early stages.

[Robby789]

15 minutes ago, Beo said:

You might want to consider the bottom of the Trent and Mersey and Erewash canals. Sawley marina is near (walking distance) to a huuuge Aldi distribution centre and only a bus ride from Long Eaton (then links via bus or train to Nottingham and Derby) and Castle Donington which now seems to consist entirely of large grey warehouses/distribution centres. Sandiacre on the Erewash has bus links to Nottingham and Derby. 

Beo, good know things like this.

[Beo]

Sorry - just read that you want to avoid the Midlands so if that includes the East Midlands please ignore my message!!

[Peanut]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Have you actually got this boat that you have been given and been on it.  Is it fully fitted out ready to go. You keep mentioning residential moorings but they are like hens teeth, the best you can hope for is a leisure mooring that let you live on 24/7 but you may need to take the boat out for the odd week or two to keep them happy. That way you may have a washing machine and showers/toilets, almost certainly electricity on a meter and water. If you have a pumpout that will be something extra to pay for but a portapoty you will be able to empty for free.

 

You are very unlikely to get a Residential Mooring for £3,000, ditchcrawler, has given the answer you need above.

[Tony1]

 

Here's an example of a northern marina you could consider.

 

https://swanleybridgemarina.com/our-marina/mooring-fees/

 

Its under £3000 per year for a 57ft boat, and 2300 if you're 50ft or less. Its super-quiet, but within a couple of miles of Nantwich, where there might be work available. 

I've stayed at that place and the staff are lovely people, they have a laundry and shower block, electric hookup, and the water hose points are right next to the boat.

One downside is they weren't too keen on you doing major/noisy jobs on your boat, so bear that in mind. 

Main point is, maybe a marina mooring would be affordable.

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

Re transport. Plenty of folk keep a small motorbike on the boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

44 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Here's an example of a northern marina you could consider.

 

https://swanleybridgemarina.com/our-marina/mooring-fees/

 

Its under £3000 per year for a 57ft boat, and 2300 if you're 50ft or less. Its super-quiet, but within a couple of miles of Nantwich, where there might be work available. 

I've stayed at that place and the staff are lovely people, they have a laundry and shower block, electric hookup, and the water hose points are right next to the boat.

One downside is they weren't too keen on you doing major/noisy jobs on your boat, so bear that in mind. 

Main point is, maybe a marina mooring would be affordable.

 

 

 

 

 

Is that a 'residential mooring', or a "residential, if don't rock the boat & keep your head, down leisure mooring" ?

 

OP has said he doesn't want to 'duck & dive' and use a leisure mooring as a residential mooring.

In his circumstances, I cannot say I blame him - I was in a (C&RT / BWML) marina where a boater was kicked out for breaking the rules - he was given 15 minutes to leave and it ended up with the Police being called.

Thats not something you need when just starting out, got a job sorted etc etc.

 

Better to play by the rules, at least initially, and know that you at least have a little security.

[magnetman]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

CRT monitor boat movement. As far as I am aware they do not monitor boat occupation at all.

I think there is a tick box on the data collectors tablet. "does boat look occupied". Obviously not always easy to tell but anyone who knows boats will have a fairly good idea of if a boat is being used as accomodation. 

Disclaimer: theory not fact. I don't know this. 

[Tony1]

22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Is that a 'residential mooring', or a "residential, if don't rock the boat & keep your head, down leisure mooring" ?

 

OP has said he doesn't want to 'duck & dive' and use a leisure mooring as a residential mooring.

In his circumstances, I cannot say I blame him - I was in a (C&RT / BWML) marina where a boater was kicked out for breaking the rules - he was given 15 minutes to leave and it ended up with the Police being called.

Thats not something you need when just starting out, got a job sorted etc etc.

 

Better to play by the rules, at least initially, and know that you at least have a little security.

 

I don't want to cause any issues for any marinas by overtly stating policies re residential status. 

I do believe it is a common practice for people to be able to live aboard their boats on what is officially listed as a non-residential basis, but which in reality is residential.

I think posters here call it the 'dont ask, don't tell' approach.

Certainly I have been in at least three marinas where there were more than a few liveaboards occupying boats nearby (although many boats were genuinely part time use).

I didn't ask them what fees they were paying, or other details of their arrangements, but that is the sort of thing that the OP could talk to any potential marina about. 

I think that exploratory conversation would need to be conducted with some discretion, yes.

For example you might say there will be periods of the year where you would like to spend most of your nights aboard the boat (e.g. all of the Spring and Summer), but that you wouldn't be full time residential for the entire year-  and you could see how they respond to that,

You could also ask the member here for for any recent local knowledge of the place and its policies. 

Isn't it fairly common for marinas to have no formal residential moorings at all, but still allow folks to live aboard on an informal basis?

So personally, I wouldn't worry about the 'not fully official' status, I bet many people here do exactly the same.

In fact in the example I gave of Swanley Bridge, they dont list any residential moorings- they are just called mooring fees, and visitor mooring fees.

There are ways you can discuss things with the staff of your preferred marina whereby you both understand the arrangement, but neither openly states what it is. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Tony1

[Alan de Enfield]

33 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I don't want to cause any issues for any marinas by overtly stating policies re residential status. 

I do believe it is a common practice for people to be able to live aboard their boats on what is officially listed as a non-residential basis, but which in reality is residential.

I think posters here call it the 'dont ask, don't tell' approach.

Certainly I have been in at least three marinas where there were more than a few liveaboards occupying boats nearby (although many boats were genuinely part time use).

I didn't ask them what fees they were paying, or other details of their arrangements, but that is the sort of thing that the OP could talk to any potential marina about. 

I think that exploratory conversation would need to be conducted with some discretion, yes.

For example you might say there will be periods of the year where you would like to spend most of your nights aboard the boat (e.g. all of the Spring and Summer), but that you wouldn't be full time residential for the entire year-  and you could see how they respond to that,

You could also ask the member here for for any recent local knowledge of the place and its policies. 

Isn't it fairly common for marinas to have no formal residential moorings at all, but still allow folks to live aboard on an informal basis?

So personally, I wouldn't worry about the 'not fully official' status, I bet many people here do exactly the same.

In fact in the example I gave of Swanley Bridge, they dont list any residential moorings- they are just called mooring fees, and visitor mooring fees.

There are ways you can discuss things with the staff of your preferred marina whereby you both understand the arrangement, but neither openly states what it is. 

 

 

 

 

I keep hearing about these 'Napolean' marinas (I see no ships) but having spent many (40+) years in a variety of marinas I have yet to find one. 

There are always strong distinctions between residential and leisure in both the facilities provided and the evidence needed to obtain a mooring.

 

For example when we were moored in a BWML (now Aquavista) marina they would only allow you to take a leisure mooring if you could provide evidence of a 'primary residence', elsewhere - which was taken to be a copy of the Council Tax demand in your name. The Marina was approximately 1/3 Full residential moorings with PP and council tax, the other 2/3rds were leisure moorings.

No evidence that the boat WAS NOT your primary / main residence and you could only apply for a residential mooring.

 

BWML types of moorings :

 

Standard Mooring 

A mooring product designed for customers who predominantly use their craft during the summer months April – October with occasional maintenance visits during the winter November – March.

Overnight stays between 1 November – 31 March are not permitted without the authorisation of the Local Manager.

 Maximum 8 amp electrical connection (chargeable) available at the marina but not at the mooring.

 No guaranteed parking arrangement.

 Use of marina customer facilities and elsan disposal point. Laundrette and pump out facilities are chargeable where available.

 Domestic waste bins provided. You will be required to remove furniture, carpets, white goods, electrical equipment etc at your own cost.

 Emergency call provision (Free phone Canals 0800 47999 47).

 Ombudsman Complaints Procedure.

 

Leisure Mooring (Extended Stay)

 

This product is for the boating enthusiast and customers wishing to maximise their leisure time allowing unlimited leisure use within the marina throughout the mooring contract, utilising their boat summer and winter is an expectation.

It is not permitted to stay on the vessel for more than 28 consecutive days whilst the vessel is moored in the marina in any one contract period.

BWML may from time to time request proof of residency away from the marina.

A leisure mooring has the following additional benefits over the standard mooring product.

 Electricity upgraded to a maximum 16 amp supply (chargeable) please refer to the Customer Service Handbook regarding electricity supply.

 Water points close by and usable all year round subject to underground freezing caused by severe weather conditions, with the exception Sawley Marina where water will be disconnected during months of November – March to alleviate freezing and burst pipework.

 Parking subject to availability (extra charge could apply at certain locations).

 BWML offer hard standing within this service provision subject to marina facilities, the number of weeks included are set locally please contact your marina office for details.

Lifting fees and cradle fees applicable and subject to Marina location.

 

Full Residential

Only available at marinas were BWML have gained residential planning approval, council tax is payable at either a composite or individual rate (please contact the Marina Manager for more information regarding council tax).

Minimum contract 12 months, customers requiring longer security should discuss this with their Local Marina Management Team who will advise of the Berthing Lease requirements.

Additional benefits for residential berths are listed below.

 Allocation of a registered postal address.

 Minimum 16 amp electrical supply (chargeable), maximum 32 amp.

 Winterised water mains (subject to underground freezing caused by severe weather conditions).

 Guaranteed parking bay allocation – with the exception of Limehouse Marina (extra charge could apply at certain locations).

 Storage box provided (subject to land availability).

 6 weeks on hard standing subject to marina facility (lifting fees applicable), additional weeks are chargeable at appropriate rates (subject to Marina location).

 Inclusive elements such as Pump Out and Laundrette are subject to BWML fair Use Policy

 

We currently have boats in two marinas and they both very clearly state (and enforce) NO LIVEABOARDS.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

For example when we were moored in a BWML (now Aquavista) marina they would only allow you to take a leisure mooring if you could provide evidence of a 'primary residence', elsewhere - which was taken to be a copy of the Council Tax demand in your name. The Marina was approximately 1/3 Full residential moorings with PP and council tax, the other 2/3rds were leisure moorings.

No evidence that the boat WAS NOT your primary / main residence and you could only apply for a residential mooring.

BWML were formerly owned by BW/CRT so had to toe the official line. Smaller independent mooring operators may be more flexible.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, David Mack said:

BWML were formerly owned by BW/CRT so had to toe the official line. Smaller independent mooring operators may be more flexible.

 

Indeed, but they are not unique.

We are currently in a Marina  (small group of 4 marinas) which also requires proof of CT being paid on a 'primary residence'.