Best place in England / Mooring- for having a midlife crisis!

[Robby789]

Tony1 and others, again ( say it every post i know ) valuable advice, which i do need to take time to read and sink in and evaluate. 

 

The one issue - which i didnt think I would have ( initially at least ) is this ole chestnut which appears time and again in your posting of what constitues residential mooring / whether i can perm. live on a boat . From what i gather even if paying extra, still could be a case of 'being allowed' to stay or 'asked to leave on days notice' does not appeal at all, for a total newbie to live on the water and having to earn a crust.  But..again.. plenty of posts and advice I need to sift through, thanks for that.

 

( to throw a stone into the water - i've actually read that of late canalboats/narrowboats have increased in value..quite a bit in fact. Aware other posts have said, tin depreciates in value, brick/morter appreciates ( providing its not a rental property..which it would be in my case. ) 

[Tony1]

4 minutes ago, Robby789 said:

Tony1 and others, again ( say it every post i know ) valuable advice, which i do need to take time to read and sink in and evaluate. 

 

The one issue - which i didnt think I would have ( initially at least ) is this ole chestnut which appears time and again in your posting of what constitues residential mooring / whether i can perm. live on a boat . From what i gather even if paying extra, still could be a case of 'being allowed' to stay or 'asked to leave on days notice' does not appeal at all, for a total newbie to live on the water and having to earn a crust.  But..again.. plenty of posts and advice I need to sift through, thanks for that.

 

( to throw a stone into the water - i've actually read that of late canalboats/narrowboats have increased in value..quite a bit in fact. Aware other posts have said, tin depreciates in value, brick/morter appreciates ( providing its not a rental property..which it would be in my case. ) 

 

Just a thought robby, if you are interested in boat price changes, i would start a new  thread about it

 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Robby789 said:

what constitues residential mooring / whether i can perm. live on a boat

 

 

Legally - a 'residential mooring' has Local Authority planning permission for permanent liveaboard usage., With a residential mooring you will have an address, be able to receive mail and may have other 'perks' such as a shed, discounted washing machie, free pump-out etc)

 

A 'leisure mooring' has planning permission to be used for leisure use only, and as part of the planning permission being granted may have the maximum number of nights that you can stay aboard within a week / month / year specified.

 

You cannot legally live aboard on a leisure mooring.

 

As has been said - some marinas take the risk and allow boaters to liveaboard on leisure moorings, but it is not the marina that will be told to leave.

 

You have repeatedly said you do not want to take the risk.

 

11 minutes ago, Robby789 said:

From what i gather even if paying extra, still could be a case of 'being allowed' to stay or 'asked to leave on days notice' does not appeal at all, for a total newbie to live on the water and having to earn a crust. 

 

 

Because of the difficulty in getting residential planning permission there are not '100s' of residential moorings availabe - and - they do attract a premium price because of what they offer.

 

Only YOU can decide if :

a) a properly residential mooring is achievable within your budget

b) you are prepared to risk being a liveaboard on a leisure mooring.

 

No matter what is said on the forum - it is your decision and no one else.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Because of the difficulty in getting residential planning permission there are not '100s' of residential moorings availabe - and - they do attract a premium price because of what they offer.

 

Only YOU can decide if :

a) a properly residential mooring is achievable within your budget

b) you are prepared to risk being a liveaboard on a leisure mooring.

 

No matter what is said on the forum - it is your decision and no one else.

It has been said several times already on this thread, but it bears repeating: Official residential moorings with full planning permission etc. are AS RARE AS HEN'S TEETH. The chances of you finding one are virtually nil (let alone at a price you can afford!). So by all means keep looking for one, but if you are not going to CC you should base your plans on the assumption you will be living (unobtrusively) on a leisure mooring.

[Robby789]

35 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Just a thought robby, if you are interested in boat price changes, i would start a new  thread about it

 

not at all, far from my mind re prices of boat, I have one - in a roundabout way as previously mentioned. But i just mentioned it , because an earlier post mentioned it, one of the negatives or rather thoughts to be considered seeing as I have ' a choice right now' boat or rented apartment - new start either way. They mentioned, boats lose money over time. Just mentioning, that, right now, seems to be increasing in value thats all.

 

I also sense that perhaps ive asked too many questions and the tone has shifted a little. I have plenty to go on , and final time I thank you all for your feedback. I am a little bit more despondent truth be told from when i first posted. But, as others mentioned, decision is down to me, give it a go, see what happens. Tricky because of house sale, nowhere to store/sell ( aside from a lockup ) , i have to bite the bullet regardless it seems. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Robby789

[magnetman]

55 minutes ago, Robby789 said:

 

 . From what i gather even if paying extra, still could be a case of 'being allowed' to stay or 'asked to leave on days notice' does not appeal at all, 

 

It is always worth being aware that living on a boat will almost never include an ongoing security of tenure. This can happen, in theory, if you own the land your boat is moored against and if is on a river. At the end of the day planning permission is dictated by local authorities. 

 

Owning a boat is an interesting proposition and one which I advocate and I have been living on boats with no other accomodation options for 29 years. You do have to understand that living on a boat brings zero security. If you are happy with that and understand it and you are dedicated to living on a boat because that is what you want to do then get on with it. 

 

If you are doing it because it looks like a cheap option then be abundantly cautious. 

 

If you are renting out the house so you can go boating then Good Luck and have an enjoyable journey. 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

It is always worth being aware that living on a boat will almost never include an ongoing security of tenure.

 

 

Quite.

 

And this is how it should be and nearly always will be.

 

"Security of tenure" is something for the landies. The whole point of living on a boat is the itinerant nature of it in my opinion. By all means take a mooring somewhere but sooner rather than later the neighbours will get on your ttits or the LL will start being unreasonable or, or, or... in which case you cast off and fark off to somewhere else and start again.

 

I really don't think the OP gets this AT ALL and wants a house substitute, in which case buy a house. Or don't sell the one he already has. 

 

 

[LadyG]

12 hours ago, Robby789 said:

 

 

( to throw a stone into the water - i've actually read that of late canalboats/narrowboats have increased in value..quite a bit in fact. Aware other posts have said, tin depreciates in value, brick/morter appreciates ( providing its not a rental property..which it would be in my case. )

It's very unlikely any individual will make any money from their boat, if I take my twenty year old boat as an example, the biggest increase in value would be for three reasons:

Location .... Moving from the remote NE to London would cost maybe £1000, and make maybe £9000

Upgrading ..... New batteries, new this, new that, cost maybe £3000, increase in value maybe £3000

External paintwork, essentially maintenance cost £5000, increase in value zero.

Other miscellaneous costs £1000, increase in value zero.

So my costs have been about £10,000 over four years, and I think the boat has risen in value about £12000-£15000 

I'm not sure about the market for newer boats, it has to be more volatile due to depreciation v rising costs of new builds.

I admit to fiddling figures a bit here and there, but you get the picture.

I am sure no one enjoys paying rent because they can't afford to buy their own property, but I'd be wary of buying a boat purely on cost grounds. There is no landlord going to pop round to change a lightbulb, you have to have a plan .

Once you have snagged your boat, got everything working  (spent a shed load of money), it's very enjoyable, and in winter it's lovely and warm, this winter very much warmer and cheaper than living in a house

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

12 hours ago, Robby789 said:

But i just mentioned it , because an earlier post mentioned it, one of the negatives or rather thoughts to be considered seeing as I have ' a choice right now' boat or rented apartment - new start either way. They mentioned, boats lose money over time. Just mentioning, that, right now, seems to be increasing in value thats all.

 

In 40 years of boating I have bought 18 boats and sold 16 of them (both canal boats and 'lumpy water boats'.

 

I have 'made money' (enough to cover all the maintenance costs and then some) on every boat except one (a Sea going cruiser).

 

I even include the fitting of things like a Pram Hood and a repaint.

 

I have rarely kept a boat longer then 2 years 'trading up' each time and reinvesting the 'profit from the sale of the previous boat.

 

One example would be a boat I bought for 'under' £10,000, used it for a year, fitted a stove and pram cover and sold it for £12000 a year later, Broke even and (apart from diesel and coal cost) had a year of almost  'free' boating.

Yes there was a licence and mooring to pay for, but I'd have had that on any boat.

That was 10 years ago before this rampant run away pricing we are seeing now.

 

Sold one NB in 2015, having had it for 2 years and the only maintenace costs being oil, filters and blacking and sold it for £15,000 more than I paid for it.

 

If you buy sensibly (don't buy rubbish - quality always pays for itself) and are not in a rush to sell and can wait for the right person you will rarely lose money on a boat.

[haggis]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

It

Location .... Moving from the remote NE to London would cost maybe £1000, and make maybe £9000

Upgrading ..... New batteries, new this, new that, cost maybe £3000, increase in value maybe £3000

 

I think an increase of £9000 for selling in London is perhaps a bit high

I don't think "upgrading" will add much value, especially if the upgrading is to suit the present owners taste. If a prospective buyer shares the same value upgrading might add a little but I very much doubt that the purchase prices will be recovered. You have mentioned this before and I hate to burst your bubble but I wouldn't count on getting that money back in a sale. 

[Tony1]

11 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Quite.

 

And this is how it should be and nearly always will be.

 

"Security of tenure" is something for the landies. The whole point of living on a boat is the itinerant nature of it in my opinion. By all means take a mooring somewhere but sooner rather than later the neighbours will get on your ttits or the LL will start being unreasonable or, or, or... in which case you cast off and fark off to somewhere else and start again.

 

I really don't think the OP gets this AT ALL and wants a house substitute, in which case buy a house. Or don't sell the one he already has. 

 

 

 

One of the things I quite like about the mobility thing is that if I'm in the mood to be sociable (which happens every 29th February), I can moor near to a line of boats and get chatting to boaters, pretend to be normal for a few days, etc. 

Lithium batteries are a perennial favourite subject (of mine anyway). I have a lithium sales spiel that I like to deliver on summer evenings ('yes, lithium batteries can actually make tea as well. Yes, they actually pour in the milk in')- and then I watch the missus dragging her husband indoors as soon as I  mention the price of a lithium setup. 

It's the simple pleasures about boating that appeal the most...

 

For example, my spirit soared yesterday when I realised I'd gotten almost 1500Wh of solar power, for the first time in well over 2 months. I was so inspired that I almost started a thread here just to gloat about it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Tony1

[doratheexplorer]

14 hours ago, David Mack said:

It has been said several times already on this thread, but it bears repeating: Official residential moorings with full planning permission etc. are AS RARE AS HEN'S TEETH. The chances of you finding one are virtually nil (let alone at a price you can afford!). So by all means keep looking for one, but if you are not going to CC you should base your plans on the assumption you will be living (unobtrusively) on a leisure mooring.

If you're not too fussy about where your mooring is, resi moorings are quite easy to find.

Here's a list of 11 which are currently available

 

https://www.watersidemooring.com/Search?Location=Birmingham%2C+UK&DistanceMiles=0&Coordinates=52.4862%2C-1.8904&tab=list&Availability=AvailableNow&BerthUse=Residential

[ditchcrawler]

17 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

If you're not too fussy about where your mooring is, resi moorings are quite easy to find.

Here's a list of 11 which are currently available

 

https://www.watersidemooring.com/Search?Location=Birmingham%2C+UK&DistanceMiles=0&Coordinates=52.4862%2C-1.8904&tab=list&Availability=AvailableNow&BerthUse=Residential

I am surprised that Ocker Hill is not listed as it looks half empty.

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I am surprised that Ocker Hill is not listed as it looks half empty.

From experience I've found that asking the local moorers can turn up resi moorings which CRT are unaware of.  I wouldn't be suprised if there were resi moorings avaialble now at Ocker HIll, Hockley Port and Cuckoo Wharf.  And maybe Silver Street.

 

In any case, those on here saying that resi moorings are virtually impossible to find don't know what they're talking about.

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

In any case, those on here saying that resi moorings are virtually impossible to find don't know what they're talking about.

I think its because most people seem to want them in a marina which is where the problem is.

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think its because most people seem to want them in a marina which is where the problem is.

 

Or require them in a specific area for work / schools / family / hospital reasons.

 

I bet there are very few vacancies within (say) a  2 or 3 mile radius of any specific area.

 

Waterside Moorings :

 

'Lincoln' shows 60 moorings within 5 mies of which 20 are residential and not one vacancy. Going to 10 miles shows a total of 71 moorings all occupied

 

'Nottingham' - No mooring vacancies within 5 miles of Nottingham. 1 leisure mooring available within 10 miles of Nottingam

 

'Leicester' shows 1 mooring (leisure) available within 10 miles. It is the same mooring as shown as within 10 miles of Nottingham

 

Non-Marina leisure moorings seem to be getting harder to find as well as residential moorings

 

 

 

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

If you're not too fussy about where your mooring is, resi moorings are quite easy to find.

Here's a list of 11 which are currently available

 

https://www.watersidemooring.com/Search?Location=Birmingham%2C+UK&DistanceMiles=0&Coordinates=52.4862%2C-1.8904&tab=list&Availability=AvailableNow&BerthUse=Residential

 

The OP has specifically said he does not want to be in or near Birmingham.

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, haggis said:

I think an increase of £9000 for selling in London is perhaps a bit high

I don't think "upgrading" will add much value, especially if the upgrading is to suit the present owners taste. If a prospective buyer shares the same value upgrading might add a little but I very much doubt that the purchase prices will be recovered. You have mentioned this before and I hate to burst your bubble but I wouldn't count on getting that money back in a sale. 

I know the current value of my boat, give or take, and I know how much I paid, which you don't.

I dont think anyone in their right minds would strip my boat back to bare floor, bare plywood wall, six dead batteries etc etc in exchange for a discount which would cover the upgrade. 

I am responding to someone who has posted about rising boat prices prior to purchase. For many people this is a significant risk. This is a forum for discussion. If you have different opinion I suggest you post your opinion rather than picking holes in my post, which obviously is ballpark.

I am attempting to ground them, it is nothing to do with my bubble. I am just trying to put some figures on boat pricing/costs. If anyone wants to know about specific boat prices they can use Apollo Duck and various brokers, Ebay is available, but I think it's best for a newby to stick to mainstream.

 

.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by LadyG

[doratheexplorer]

52 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think its because most people seem to want them in a marina which is where the problem is.

Like this then?

https://www.watersidemooring.com/356-tinsley-marina-residential-l1/Vacancies#berth4318

20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The OP has specifically said he does not want to be in or near Birmingham.

I'm sorry, but which of the moorings in the link I provided were in Birmingham?

Hint:  none of them.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Like this then?

https://www.watersidemooring.com/356-tinsley-marina-residential-l1/Vacancies#berth4318

I'm sorry, but which of the moorings in the link I provided were in Birmingham?

Hint:  none of them.

 

 

 

Your search location was based around Birmingham as per your link :

 

https://www.watersidemooring.com/Search?Location=Birmingham%2C+UK&DistanceMiles=0&Coordinates=52.4862%2C-1.8904&tab=list&Availability=AvailableNow&BerthUse=Residential

 

Looking at the map there are non between Luton and Sheffield

Edited February 6, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[doratheexplorer]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Your search location was based around Birmingham as per your link :

 

https://www.watersidemooring.com/Search?Location=Birmingham%2C+UK&DistanceMiles=0&Coordinates=52.4862%2C-1.8904&tab=list&Availability=AvailableNow&BerthUse=Residential

 

Looking at the map there are non between Luton and Sheffield

You have to put in some kind of location, it's how that site works.  The search was national.  What happened is you decided to comment without actually looking at the link.

 

For the OP - Aquavista may well have resi moorings available at 3 of their marinas, according to their website.  Worth giving them a call:

https://www.aquavista.com/mooring-options/residential-moorings?Primary=residental&pageSize=21&pageNumber=1

[Arthur Marshall]

Non CRT mooring are less anti-liveaboard. There are plenty of those about, but they're easier to find by boating past and asking either a resident, or nipping into a vacant mooring and digging up the landlord. I've moored at three farms,  two with residents and one without. Good security when plenty of others are living there, and loads of help and advice available. But they tend not to be advertised online. And a fair bit cheaper than marinas.

[Lily Rose]

On 05/02/2023 at 10:12, Tracy D'arth said:

.

Ventnor Marina will not allow anyone to stay on their boat in the marina for more than 2 nights I think, may be 3. This is the extreme I have found.

 

 

This is not correct. I have spent more than 2 or 3 nights on my boat in that marina multiple times each year for over 7 years. As have many of my fellow moorers. On a few occasions it's been more than a week at a time and the staff are fine with it. They don't mind because they know I'm not living on it. They have a very strict no liveaboards policy for a very good reason specific to that marina and therefore are vigilant to ensure no-one is living on their boat. That doesn't mean moorers can't spend a week or two on their boat from time to time, they have other ways of being able to tell if anyone is living on board and on the very rare occasion they find this happening they will tell the offender that they need to leave. Knowing the friendly staff as well as I do I would think this is done amicably as long as the moorer doesn't get stroppy.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Lily Rose

[BilgePump]

4 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Like this then?

https://www.watersidemooring.com/356-tinsley-marina-residential-l1/Vacancies#berth4318

I'm sorry, but which of the moorings in the link I provided were in Birmingham?

Hint:  none of them.

There's only one residential mooring out of 11 available north of Luton, in Sheffield. It's also twice as expensive as a leisure mooring over in Cheshire. In comparison there are over 130 leisure moorings available. Take advantage of family address and save a lot of pounds?

[n-baj]

On 02/02/2023 at 19:15, Tony1 said:

 

 

I spoke to a really nice guy last summer who was on his way up to the Lancaster canal, and was planning to work a supermarket job over the winter and build up cruising funds for the summer. He is cruising up and down the canal, and managing to be within travelling distance of his workplace, although on some days it is a long trip.

It definitely can be done, but at times. in winter, its a challenging lifestyle if you're in a less than ideal location for suitable work, if you don't have a car, and if you're no longer 25, fit, and able to cycle 20 miles to work along pitch dark rutted and muddy lanes at 6am, and in the freezing rain. 

 

Hello Tony I’m assuming you mean me (we met in Chester in September)?

 

I felt compelled to create an account as my situation and little experience may help Robby789 decide what is best. (Plus I’ve been referred to as a nice guy 😂)

 

I cannot advise much on marinas as the only time I’m in a marina is when in buying diesel/gas so I’m a year around CC’er. Summer I’m moving all over the place but this winter I’ve been hanging around a 4 mile stretch of the Lancaster canal, spending about 8 weeks of that at 3 points at 2 weeks each. A mile south of work, then right outside work (the shop is practically next to the canal) and 2 weeks 1 mile north.
 

a massive caveat to that is I don’t do that all year round. I think the CRT will start to send overstay notices if that’s your cruising pattern all year round. I also do not make a nuisance of myself. I don’t run Jenny right outside someone’s window at 9am on a Sunday (or even outside a window!) for example. Never had an overstay notice from CRT and licence renewal went through no problem very recently.

 

In terms of employment (and officialdom) I use a c/o address that’s miles away and explain at interview that I live on a boat.I found getting employment no problem, as they need an address only for admin and tax purposes. Sorry if the next bit sounds obvious, I always get a haircut and suited up for interviews. All this should breakdown any assumptions about having no fixed abode. In my experience the manager/interviewer is incredibly inquisitive about living on a boat.
 

Once you’ve worked for a supermarket and not been a muppet then you’re in their system so if you want to move to a different part of the country then it should be easier to get re-employment rather then being a complete unknown to them, although transfers, etc are not guaranteed. 
 

In my experience Tesco only offer part time contracts (16-20 hours or so) if you want extra you have to pick up discretionary ‘overtime’, however in the run up to Christmas there’s full time hours if you want it. Aldi does pay more but I’ve been told you’re worked very, very hard there. I was rejected there only because I was honest and said I only wanted winter work.
 

In terms of location I rightly or wrongly get a feeling I’d get charged to fart in the south so I stick with the north. Tesco pays an extra 96p/hour working in London for example but it’s not really worth the bunfight at services and moorings spots there in my opinion. I’ve only had to wait for a water point once through this winter.

 

Boat dwelling can be cheap with the right boat and many people make it on an 4 figure income with seasonal work. Assuming you have no debt repayments or similar rather than pay a substantial amount for moorings and working year round I would recommend seasonal work bridge hopping for a bit then going on a long unpaid holiday in a season of your choice.

 

good luck!

[MtB]

2 hours ago, BilgePump said:

There's only one residential mooring out of 11 available north of Luton, in Sheffield. It's also twice as expensive as a leisure mooring over in Cheshire. In comparison there are over 130 leisure moorings available. Take advantage of family address and save a lot of pounds?

 

Also, the four listed in aylesbury are not residential apparently despite what the listing says. It's an administrative error CRT according to a previous thread discussing those specific moorings.