Deferred stoppages - How long before we can't go far?

[Grassman]

21 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

 

Most issues in navigating the Midlands come from the levels of overhanging vegetation. That's annoying because it's easy to fix, but of course it's laborious and repetitive.

 

 

 

For the last 5 winters I've been part of a joint IWA/CRT workparty who every winter deal with the offside vegetation and I agree it's laborious and repetitive but no way is it an easy fix.

 

We volunteer 4 days a week between October and March and at times the progress is painfully slow, particularly when dealing with Hawthorn, Dog-rose and brambles. CRT provide us with a workboat and hopper boat, all the equipment, and the training, and we (12 of us) provide the labour. This winter we are working on the T&M around Burton on Trent.

 

The main issue we have with CRT (Fradley) at the moment is the very poor organisation and their general attitude. Recent management and staff changes has meant experienced 'canal people' have been replaced by a manager and some staff who haven't a clue, especially with anything related to boating. They just don't appreciate the problems that overhanging vegetation causes to boaters and this shows in their negative and disinterested attitude towards what we do, almost as if we've become a nuisance. With this attitude I fear that this might be the last year, either because CRT will pull the plug or we volunteers get so fed up with their attitude and incompetence that we decide to call it a day.

[Jon57]

3 minutes ago, Grassman said:

 

For the last 5 winters I've been part of a joint IWA/CRT workparty who every winter deal with the offside vegetation and I agree it's laborious and repetitive but no way is it an easy fix.

 

We volunteer 4 days a week between October and March and at times the progress is painfully slow, particularly when dealing with Hawthorn, Dog-rose and brambles. CRT provide us with a workboat and hopper boat, all the equipment, and the training, and we (12 of us) provide the labour. This winter we are working on the T&M around Burton on Trent.

 

The main issue we have with CRT (Fradley) at the moment is the very poor organisation and their general attitude. Recent management and staff changes has meant experienced 'canal people' have been replaced by a manager and some staff who haven't a clue, especially with anything related to boating. They just don't appreciate the problems that overhanging vegetation causes to boaters and this shows in their negative and disinterested attitude towards what we do, almost as if we've become a nuisance. With this attitude I fear that this might be the last year, either because CRT will pull the plug or we volunteers get so fed up with their attitude and incompetence that we decide to call it a day.

Maybe ask the new manager if they would like to volunteer for a day and have a proper insight what the job entails. Both boating and cutting back the vegetation. I think they will be surprised what good work like your team are doing. They could then go back to the office and put it on a spreadsheet 😩😩😩😩and call it a good days work.😱

[Naughty Cal]

15 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

I often take my granddaughter beach litter picking. Got mine and her litter picker from our local DIY store. She loves it and I love her being a bit angry about all the crap people discard.

 

We get a couple of bin bags worth and leave it by the bins near the public loos at Saltburn. Technically yes this is classed as 'fly tipping' but the council bods just take it away and we aint been fined yet.

We tend to have a litter pick wherever we end up parked up in the van.

 

Several reasons. We don't want to be sat looking at litter, we don't want the dog picking up something he shouldn't and lastly we see it as a bit of a thank you to the communities, councils and areas that allow vans to park up.

 

It is a small gesture that takes a few minutes and can make a big difference to the local environment. 

[___]

3 hours ago, Grassman said:

 

For the last 5 winters I've been part of a joint IWA/CRT workparty who every winter deal with the offside vegetation and I agree it's laborious and repetitive but no way is it an easy fix.

 

We volunteer 4 days a week between October and March and at times the progress is painfully slow, particularly when dealing with Hawthorn, Dog-rose and brambles. CRT provide us with a workboat and hopper boat, all the equipment, and the training, and we (12 of us) provide the labour. This winter we are working on the T&M around Burton on Trent.

 

The main issue we have with CRT (Fradley) at the moment is the very poor organisation and their general attitude. Recent management and staff changes has meant experienced 'canal people' have been replaced by a manager and some staff who haven't a clue, especially with anything related to boating. They just don't appreciate the problems that overhanging vegetation causes to boaters and this shows in their negative and disinterested attitude towards what we do, almost as if we've become a nuisance. With this attitude I fear that this might be the last year, either because CRT will pull the plug or we volunteers get so fed up with their attitude and incompetence that we decide to call it a day.

 

That's an interesting observation on the internal working of a volunteer group. I have moments when the admin side of volunteering is quite off-putting as it strays into the sort of management speak and activity I was glad to leave behind when I left full-time direct employment. It's a tricky area though because of the legal obligation CRT have to their volunteers.

 

When I say vegetation management is easy I'm not referring to the physical task; I am comparing it to the major engineering works that sustain the canal network. Things like lock gate replacements, embankment stabilisation and bridge strengthening/replacement require project management to oversee long term planning, cost estimation, letting of contracts, survey, design, fabrication, specialist plant, stoppages and finance in addition to the actual direct execution of the task. Vegetation management is a day to day profit and loss account activity that is far more flexible in terms of execution. It's those scale factors that make maintenance and renewals different things.

 

[Dave123]

The idea that parts of the network will permanently shut is always talked about but it has been proven and is well known that closing canals costs more money, you can't just cease to spend money on a section of canal and let nature quietly reclaim it. Urban canals in particular would need significant expense to make and keep them safe and to continue to perform functions such as drainage eg for sewage and storm run off.

[cuthound]

7 hours ago, Grassman said:

 

For the last 5 winters I've been part of a joint IWA/CRT workparty who every winter deal with the offside vegetation and I agree it's laborious and repetitive but no way is it an easy fix.

 

We volunteer 4 days a week between October and March and at times the progress is painfully slow, particularly when dealing with Hawthorn, Dog-rose and brambles. CRT provide us with a workboat and hopper boat, all the equipment, and the training, and we (12 of us) provide the labour. This winter we are working on the T&M around Burton on Trent.

 

The main issue we have with CRT (Fradley) at the moment is the very poor organisation and their general attitude. Recent management and staff changes has meant experienced 'canal people' have been replaced by a manager and some staff who haven't a clue, especially with anything related to boating. They just don't appreciate the problems that overhanging vegetation causes to boaters and this shows in their negative and disinterested attitude towards what we do, almost as if we've become a nuisance. With this attitude I fear that this might be the last year, either because CRT will pull the plug or we volunteers get so fed up with their attitude and incompetence that we decide to call it a day.

 

I have taken a few CRT employees boating as part of the "Boating Buddies" schemes, and invariably they leave with a better understanding of boaters needs.

 

It is a simple and effective way of influencing CRT bit by bit.

[PCSB]

18 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I have taken a few CRT employees boating as part of the "Boating Buddies" schemes, and invariably they leave with a better understanding of boaters needs.

 

It is a simple and effective way of influencing CRT bit by bit.

Is that scheme still running?

[cuthound]

52 minutes ago, PCSB said:

Is that scheme still running?

 

Not sure, I've only seen one invite since the COVID lockdowns.

 

If not, then CRT should reinstate it because it allowed many of their backroom staff a rare opportunity to see what CRT actually do, as well as giving boaters like me a chance to moan about offside vegetation and lack of dredging.

[TheBiscuits]

38 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Not sure, I've only seen one invite since the COVID lockdowns.

 

If not, then CRT should reinstate it because it allowed many of their backroom staff a rare opportunity to see what CRT actually do, as well as giving boaters like me a chance to moan about offside vegetation and lack of dredging.

 

I did one in June 2022, and one in October 2021, so they are still running occasionally.

 

If you want to do some, contact your local region and remind them about the programme - I think the original central coordinator moved jobs.

 

 

[Momac]

6 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

We tend to have a litter pick wherever we end up parked up in the van.

 

Several reasons. We don't want to be sat looking at litter, we don't want the dog picking up something he shouldn't and lastly we see it as a bit of a thank you to the communities, councils and areas that allow vans to park up.

 

It is a small gesture that takes a few minutes and can make a big difference to the local environment. 

Well done

 

I have thought of taking some weeding tools and possibly some weedkiller on the boat and  doing a bit to tidy up at C&RT moorings. Weeds growing out of concrete make the place look  much neglected . C&RT have made little effort since Covid.

A C&RT volunteer said he was not allowed weed killer but that doesn't deter me.

The full time lock keepers have lost all pride in the presentation of their surroundings . One exception is Gunthorpe where the volunteers did a  great job on the floral display etc on the  lock island in 2022.

 

If everyone did  a little litter picking or weeding  the results would become noticeable . Many people will decline of course .

 

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

Well done

 

I have thought of taking some weeding tools and possibly some weedkiller on the boat and  doing a bit to tidy up at C&RT moorings. Weeds growing out of concrete make the place look  much neglected . C&RT have made little effort since Covid.

A C&RT volunteer said he was not allowed weed killer but that doesn't deter me.

The full time lock keepers have lost all pride in the presentation of their surroundings . One exception is Gunthorpe where the volunteers did a  great job on the floral display etc on the  lock island in 2022.

 

If everyone did  a little litter picking or weeding  the results would become noticeable . Many people will decline of course .

 

I tend to have back the towpath veg with a hand scythe in the Summer, mainly so I can check for pot holes then neither of us breaks our ankles when getting on or off the boat.

I obviously do this for everyone's benefit, reporting holes when I find them, so CRT can stick some orange netting around them...forever.

[Grassman]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

I tend to have back the towpath veg with a hand scythe in the Summer, mainly so I can check for pot holes then neither of us breaks our ankles when getting on or off the boat.

I obviously do this for everyone's benefit, reporting holes when I find them, so CRT can stick some orange netting around them...forever.

 

Last year on the western K&A I managed to get off my boat and tackle the vegetation with my shears. I got lost and it took me 2 hours to find my way out.

[Grassman]

12 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Not sure, I've only seen one invite since the COVID lockdowns.

 

If not, then CRT should reinstate it because it allowed many of their backroom staff a rare opportunity to see what CRT actually do, as well as giving boaters like me a chance to moan about offside vegetation and lack of dredging.

 

Yes it's definitely still running but an area manager told me there's an unusual problem in your area in that there are more offers to buddy than there are staff who need it. Yet other areas in the country are desperate to find willing boaters who will do it.

 

I once took a lady from their customer services on one. She'd been with CRT for a year and never been on a boat. When we'd finished she thanked me and said that at least now when she received a complaint about a lock she would now know what they were talking about!

[Jon57]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

I tend to have back the towpath veg with a hand scythe in the Summer, mainly so I can check for pot holes then neither of us breaks our ankles when getting on or off the boat.

I obviously do this for everyone's benefit, reporting holes when I find them, so CRT can stick some orange netting around them...forever.

Put a sign there for free compost deposit. Two problems solved in one 🤣🤣

[sigsegv]

On 11/01/2023 at 09:59, Grassman said:

CRT provide us with a workboat and hopper boat, all the equipment, and the training, and we (12 of us) provide the labour. This winter we are working on the T&M around Burton on Trent.

I was moored up next to your workboat by bridge 32B just a few days ago and heard you working the next morning, just in time for my short cruise in that direction, cheers for a job well done on the pruning!

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, Grassman said:

 

Last year on the western K&A I managed to get off my boat and tackle the vegetation with my shears. I got lost and it took me 2 hours to find my way out.

 

To be fair the K&A has been like that for 25 years. It is where they first trialled their towpath "natural vegetarian" policy back in the 90's.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

On 10/01/2023 at 14:23, David Mack said:

That's the theory. 

But in the mid 1980s Netherton Tunnel, designated as a Cruising Waterway, had an extended closure as the tunnel invert had buckled as a result of mining subsidence. The local authority threatened to bring legal action against BW to force them to repair and reopen the tunnel. But they were told that if they forced the issue in that way the Secretary of State would use his powers under the '68 Act to suspend the Act's requirements, and the LA backed down. Eventually government coughed up some extra money for BW to deal with this and other tunnel problems and the issue went away. But I imagine something similar could still happen if a big enough breach or other failure were to occur on a Commercial or Cruising waterway.

If using the system as housing were the objective it would accommodate far more people if you filled in all the urban sections and built conventional housing on them, and kept the rural bits as disconnected fishing lakes.

The '68 Act is now amended by the British Waterways (Transfer of Functions) Order such that CRT has statutory proposer powers. In other words, CRT can ask the SoS to use his powers to recassify a waterway and the SoS must take into consideration CRT's financial situation.

 

BW was unable to make such a proposal.

 

A while back, CRT bid for £160m of government funding in addition to its normal grant to enable safety critical work to be carried out. A number of the projects relate to tunnels.