Shoreline 12v Fridge Problem

[davester65]

Got back to the boat today to find my Shoreline Fridge has packed up. There's definitely power going in as the lights are on and behind the salad tray there's a small red LED which was blinking. I cut the power to the fridge from my switch panel, left it 10 mins then re-powered, red LED light is not blinking now. Is there some servicing/maintenance I should be doing?

[Alan de Enfield]

How long has it been left ?

Have you batteries been on charge whilst you were away ?

What voltage are the batteries showing ?

What voltage are the batteries showing with the fridge 'trying to start' ?

[springy]

The instructions suggest that it is a low voltage warning - check your batteries

 

https://www.shoreline-marine.co.uk/images/Documents/Shoreline_Installation_Instructions_2020.pdf

 

springy

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, springy said:

The instructions suggest that it is a low voltage warning - check your batteries

 

https://www.shoreline-marine.co.uk/images/Documents/Shoreline_Installation_Instructions_2020.pdf

 

springy

 

Could be several other things apart from low voltage but we need to know the number of flashes in a group before repeating. Also single blinks would seem to imply low batteries form most instructions but it could be undersized cables "starving" the fridge of voltage (volt drop).

 

Probably is discharged batteries though - try with the engine running at about 1200 rpm so charging well

Edited March 2, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[davester65]

I've been a liveaboard since early January, normally on shorline but been off grid running on battery power for about 10 days now, solar is a bit hit and miss at this time of year, but battery monitor has not been below 70%. After the reboot fridge seems to be working fine again, humming away as normal. Can here some water circulating in the back of the fridge (again normal since i've been on the boat) didn't know if there was some sort of condensation tub behind the fridge which I needed to empty from time to time. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by davester65

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, davester65 said:

but battery monitor has not been below 70%.

 

Battery monitors 'lie' unless you regularly reprogramme the batteies revised capacities.

 

Lets say you have 300Ah of batteries (when new) and the monitor was programmed at 100%

 

You ahve now been undercharging your batteries and the capacity is actually 150 Ah so the monitor says you have 70% but it could now be 70% od 150Ah not 70% of 300Ah.

 

Forget the monitor, what is the Actual voltages measured with a multi-meter ?

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, davester65 said:

but battery monitor has not been below 70%

 

Exactly what is this monitor, if it is on a solar controller it is fiction and if it is on most dedicated battery monitors then unless you fully understand the instructions, properly set the meter up and regularly re-calibrate it it is another fictional reading. That type of monitor excels at encouraging inexperienced  boaters to destroy their batteries.

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Forget the monitor, what is the Actual voltages measured with a multi-meter ?

 

or the voltage scale on the monitor, but at least half an hour AFTER all charging has stopped for the day, an hour is better, both with no loads or an insignificant load running when taken

[davester65]

That's good info guys, thanks, defo sounds like low battery problem, I'm new to boating and have a recently installed 3 Panel Victron Solar set up with a Victron MPPT & a Victron Smart Shunt Battery Monitor, I have 6 x 110ah lead acid Leisure batteries. Didn't know about resetting the battery capacities. Time to run the engine for a few hours I think.

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, davester65 said:

I've been a liveaboard since early January, normally on shorline but been off grid running on battery power for about 10 days now,

 

The perfect amount of time to have been off the tit and to have run your batteries into the ground. 

 

Solar is next to useless in Jan and Feb, and I bet you don't have an adequate battery charging regime established yet. Could you describe how you've been charging your batts over the last ten days perhaps? 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, davester65 said:

Time to run the engine for a few hours I think.

 

As a rough guide (depends on your personal electrical consumption) you should probably run the engine 4 hours per day and 8 hours at weekends.

 

You will probably (depends on fridge and alternator) need to run the engine for one hour per day to replace what the fridge alone has used.

Add in TV, computer, phone charging, lights water pumps etc etc and it soon mounts up.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, davester65 said:

That's good info guys, thanks, defo sounds like low battery problem, I'm new to boating and have a recently installed 3 Panel Victron Solar set up with a Victron MPPT & a Victron Smart Shunt Battery Monitor, I have 6 x 110ah lead acid Leisure batteries. Didn't know about resetting the battery capacities. Time to run the engine for a few hours I think.

 

Ok, the the monitor is lying. Forget the % charged and rely on rested volts to assess the true state of charge and tail current to know when to stop charging. More on that in the Battery Primer in the Maintenance forum.

[davester65]

More good info guys, thanks, battery voltage is showing up at 11.85v at the min (again from the Victron App, Don't have my multi-meter onboard to take an accurate reading). Have a quick fix as I can get a shoreline hook up in the morning before I move back to the Marina at the weekend. Here's hoping I haven't trashed my battery bank. Think I've got some studying to do! Appreciate the help guys 🙂

[PD1964]

 

  Victron I would say are the most reliable MPPT/BMV being used at the minute and are the most fitted by the boat trade. So doubt your BMV is faulty. 
  I wouldn’t relay on Solar this time of year especially around Doncaster to keep your batteries topped up., as said you’ll need to run your engine too obviously depending on what your running.

Edited March 2, 2022 by PD1964

[Tony Brooks]

21 minutes ago, davester65 said:

More good info guys, thanks, battery voltage is showing up at 11.85v at the min (again from the Victron App, Don't have my multi-meter onboard to take an accurate reading). Have a quick fix as I can get a shoreline hook up in the morning before I move back to the Marina at the weekend. Here's hoping I haven't trashed my battery bank. Think I've got some studying to do! Appreciate the help guys 🙂

 

That went past the best time to stop discharging at around 12.2 to 12.3 rested volts. It is way over 30% discharged, more like 80% discharged or 20% charged. Try not to go below 12.2 rested volts very often, that is a true 50% charged but for optimum battery life consider that as fully discharged.

 

I am sure that you have lost capacity but get it on charge ASAP and when the charger goes into float turn it off for a few minutes and back on again until it drops to float almost as soon as you turn t back on.

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, davester65 said:

More good info guys, thanks, battery voltage is showing up at 11.85v

 

What are the 'conditions' when reading that voltage ?

 

How long since charge has been going in ?

How long since any charge was taken out ?

 

Ideally there needs to be a minimum of 1 hour of no 'movement' in or out of the battery to give it a chance to stabilise and to get an accurate reading.

[Tony Brooks]

12 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

 

  Victron I would say are the most reliable MPPT/BMV being used at the minute and are the most fitted by the boat trade. So doubt your BMV is faulty. 

 

I also doubt it is faulty but if the boater does not understand it, set it up properly, and regularly re-calibrate it, it is still likely to overstate the % of charge, getting more and more out of true as time goes on.

[David Mack]

At this time of year you would be better turning the fridge off and keeping your perishables in a plastic box in the well deck. That will significantly reduce your electricity consumption. Fridges are for use when you have a shoreline connection, or solar power during the summer months, or when you are travelling at least 4 hours per day.

[davester65]

26 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I also doubt it is faulty but if the boater does not understand it, set it up properly, and regularly re-calibrate it, it is still likely to overstate the % of charge, getting more and more out of true as time goes on.

My thoughts exactly, The system is installed and working, and I also doubt faulty components, problem is more likely to be a numpty novice boater like me not understanding how to operate/calibrate the system properly. So, I now have 2 jobs tomorrow, 1 connect a shoreline & put some charge back into the battery bank & 2 bury my head in the manuals & learn how to operate the system correctly. 🙂 

[davester65]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

At this time of year you would be better turning the fridge off and keeping your perishables in a plastic box in the well deck. That will significantly reduce your electricity consumption. Fridges are for use when you have a shoreline connection, or solar power during the summer months, or when you are travelling at least 4 hours per day.

Good info, thanks David, out of interest, it's a Shoreline 12v fridge with a small freezer compartment built in, (pretty standard for narrowboats) does this unit consume a lot of battery power? as have no probs storing perishables in the well deck in the colder months to save battery power & it has a separate switch on the panel so I can easily isolate it. 

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, davester65 said:

Good info, thanks David, out of interest, it's a Shoreline 12v fridge with a small freezer compartment built in, (pretty standard for narrowboats) does this unit consume a lot of battery power? as have no probs storing perishables in the well deck in the colder months to save battery power & it has a separate switch on the panel so I can easily isolate it. 

About 50 Ah from your batteries every 24 hours if your boat is warm inside. Which if you only have two 110Ah  is half your available capacity with new good batteries..........

[davester65]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

About 50 Ah from your batteries every 24 hours if your boat is warm inside. Which if you only have two 110Ah  is half your available capacity with new good batteries..........

Ooh that's a scary number Tracy, I have 6 x 110ah in my battery bank, but I've been off grid for 10 days now relying on solar charging only, I've had 3 good sunny days when my solar input has been 300w + for approx 8 hours. Judging by the other comments it's time to hook up to a shoreline. Info much appreciated, Thanks.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, davester65 said:

Ooh that's a scary number Tracy, I have 6 x 110ah in my battery bank, but I've been off grid for 10 days now relying on solar charging only, I've had 3 good sunny days when my solar input has been 300w + for approx 8 hours. Judging by the other comments it's time to hook up to a shoreline. Info much appreciated, Thanks.

Or run the engine and go for a cruise

[MtB]

2 hours ago, davester65 said:

bury my head in the manuals & learn how to operate the system correctly. 🙂 

 

Put the manuals to one side for later. Read the "Battery Primer" previously mentioned, first. Its packed with easy-to-understand basic and crucial information you'll never find in the manuals. You'll learn absolutely bucketloads in about an hour. 

 

It's here, in case you haven't found it yet.

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/95003-battery-charging-primer/

 

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, davester65 said:

Good info, thanks David, out of interest, it's a Shoreline 12v fridge with a small freezer compartment built in, (pretty standard for narrowboats) does this unit consume a lot of battery power?

All electric fridges consume a lot of battery power, whether 12V units like your Shoreline, or domestic 230V fridges run via an inverter.

Search on here for 'power audit' to work out how much energy you are using, but typically for a narrowboat a fridge can be around 50% of the total power requirement.

 

Your fridge will consume less power if there is plenty of ventilation around the coils on the back which dissipate heat. So you need space around the fridge and in particular a vent above  (through the worktop or plenty of space between the top of the fridge and the underside of the worktop) and many folk here have reported the benefit of cutting holes in the floor at the back of the fridge and fitting computer fan(s) to draw cold air from the bilges. Fans can be connected to a thermostat terminal on the back of some fridge models, so they only cut in when the fridge motor is running.

[Tony Brooks]

11 hours ago, davester65 said:

bury my head in the manuals & learn how to operate the system correctly.

 

Not the battery monitor manual. Just ignore the % and Ah left or time left scales (if it has those) and learn to use rested voltage to infer state of charge and tail current at over about 14.2 plus volts to know when to stop charging. Once you have that under your belt then deal with the monitor and learn to use Its Ah out and state of charge from rested voltage to calculate and reset the battery capacity. Getting the batteries recharged is now the priority.