CO Alarm bargain?

[alias]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I wish to register a complaint with the people who write the CO and fire alarm standards. Why don't they standardise the pitch between the wall fixing screws? This is the third CO alarm and the second fire alarm that I've fitted in the living room of my boat. Every one has had a different distance between the fixing holes, meaning that the wall behind them is getting peppered with obselete holes.

A little annoying for something that is so easy to standardise.

 

For me that's been a reason to replace the old one with a new one that's exactly the same.

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, alias said:

 

For me that's been a reason to replace the old one with a new one that's exactly the same.

 

Surely, if you are replacing an old one that is presumably is 'out of test, or doesn't work, why would you replace it with one 'exactly the same' ?

[alias]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Surely, if you are replacing an old one that is presumably is 'out of test, or doesn't work, why would you replace it with one 'exactly the same' ?

 

You have no idea how difficult it is finding new ones to buy that are "out of test". 🙃

[Jen-in-Wellies]

29 minutes ago, alias said:

 

For me that's been a reason to replace the old one with a new one that's exactly the same.

A new one of the previous model wouldn't have passed the next BSS exam.

[alias]

46 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A new one of the previous model wouldn't have passed the next BSS exam.

Oh yes, missed that. 

[Hudds Lad]

Now it’s fire season i thought i’d buy a couple of CO alarms for the boat (currently it has one midships) so we can have one near the bed and one near the burner.

 

Last time i bought some was Jan 2019 for the shareboat, Kidde 7DCO, which were £15.49 a throw.

Figured i’d get the same thing as i was used to the operation etc., also figured price would be up by a few quid.

Shocked to find some “leisure” retailers wanting almost £40 a pop, one “marine” seller wanting near £43!!

 

Anyway, found a place doing them for £20.30 when buying two with free delivery, my wallet has now calmed down  

[Alan de Enfield]

48 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Now it’s fire season i thought i’d buy a couple of CO alarms for the boat (currently it has one midships) so we can have one near the bed and one near the burner.

 

Last time i bought some was Jan 2019 for the shareboat, Kidde 7DCO, which were £15.49 a throw.

Figured i’d get the same thing as i was used to the operation etc., also figured price would be up by a few quid.

Shocked to find some “leisure” retailers wanting almost £40 a pop, one “marine” seller wanting near £43!!

 

Anyway, found a place doing them for £20.30 when buying two with free delivery, my wallet has now calmed down  

 

Are you comparing like for like ?

 

There are alarms to 'part 1' and 'part 2' of the specification boat alarms are to 'part 2'.

 

Full details on the BSS website.

Extract :

 

"Fit alarms approved as meeting BS EN 50291-2"

 

 

[Machpoint005]

One of the first things my last BSS inspector did was to look at the back of the CO alarms to see whether the little boat icon had been crossed out. Fortunately, it hadn't, but apparently it often is. 

 

Boat icon crossed out = deemed unsuitable for marine use. I have no idea why. 

 

 

 

 

[alias]

1 hour ago, Hudds Lad said:

Now it’s fire season i thought i’d buy a couple of CO alarms for the boat (currently it has one midships) so we can have one near the bed and one near the burner.

 

Last time i bought some was Jan 2019 for the shareboat, Kidde 7DCO, which were £15.49 a throw.

Figured i’d get the same thing as i was used to the operation etc., also figured price would be up by a few quid.

Shocked to find some “leisure” retailers wanting almost £40 a pop, one “marine” seller wanting near £43!!

 

Anyway, found a place doing them for £20.30 when buying two with free delivery, my wallet has now calmed down  

 

I usually get this sort of thing from safelincs.co.uk who are usually competitive and are very clear on which alarms are suitable for boats. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by alias
correct url

[Hudds Lad]

24 minutes ago, alias said:

 

I usually get this sort of thing from safelincs.co.uk who are usually competitive and are very clear on which alarms are suitable for boats. 

Oddly enough, thats where i’ve bought from  

 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are you comparing like for like ?

 

There are alarms to 'part 1' and 'part 2' of the specification boat alarms are to 'part 2'.

 

Full details on the BSS website.

Extract :

 

"Fit alarms approved as meeting BS EN 50291-2"

 

 

Yes mum   

[MtB]

7 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

Now it’s fire season i thought i’d buy a couple of CO alarms for the boat (currently it has one midships) so we can have one near the bed and one near the burner.

 

Last time i bought some was Jan 2019 for the shareboat, Kidde 7DCO, which were £15.49 a throw.

Figured i’d get the same thing as i was used to the operation etc., also figured price would be up by a few quid.

Shocked to find some “leisure” retailers wanting almost £40 a pop, one “marine” seller wanting near £43!!

 

Anyway, found a place doing them for £20.30 when buying two with free delivery, my wallet has now calmed down  

 

The reason for this is a bulge in demand, caused by a new law coming into force on 1/10/22 making CO alarms mandatory in rented properties with fossil fuel-burning appliances. 

 

Suddenly landlords tried to buy 3 million of them towards the end of September.

 

This time next year they will probably be back down to the tenner or so they were in 2020. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

6 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

One of the first things my last BSS inspector did was to look at the back of the CO alarms to see whether the little boat icon had been crossed out. Fortunately, it hadn't, but apparently it often is. 

 

Boat icon crossed out = deemed unsuitable for marine use. I have no idea why. 

 

 

 

 

 

Dont matter about the icon being crossed out 

It’s the numbers that matter. 
 

[Ianws]

This one after a short look seems to fit the bill at a reasonable price FireAngel FA3313 Replaceable Battery Detector Carbon Monoxide Alarm https://amzn.eu/d/9v194bf

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Ianws said:

This one after a short look seems to fit the bill at a reasonable price FireAngel FA3313 Replaceable Battery Detector Carbon Monoxide Alarm https://amzn.eu/d/9v194bf

 

I wonder if I can read 'between the lines' ..........

 

• The FA3313 detector holds a CE & UKCA mark and has been designed to conform to the standards - BS EN 50291-1: 2008 and EN 50291-2: 2019

It has been DESIGNED to comply with the standards, but, has it been tested to the standards and been approved  ?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I reckon the fire angels are ok

 

mine woke me early morning a few days back,

👍

 

 

 

 

[Momac]

21 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are you comparing like for like ?

 

There are alarms to 'part 1' and 'part 2' of the specification boat alarms are to 'part 2'.

 

Full details on the BSS website.

Extract :

 

"Fit alarms approved as meeting BS EN 50291-2"

 

 

That''s  true . But not necessarily a cost extra  to get the part 2 included. 

From a quick look on google the prices have risen , like almost everything else .

I did get one for £10 in 2020, which was a good price at the time as the usual price was more like £15.

 

 

[Momac]

These are claimed, in the b&q web page, to be part 2 compliant . Could be cheaper from elsewhere . I

I prefer the alarms with a replaceable battery after an alarm with a non replaceable battery packed up after a year . .

[Alan de Enfield]

43 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I prefer the alarms with a replaceable battery after an alarm with a non replaceable battery packed up after a year . .

 

 

But we should point out for our Northern neighbours that their use in Scotland is illegal.

 

In Scotland it is requirement that alarms must be mains powered, or have non-replacable batteries - wonder how that works out with the BSS on a Scottish liveaboard canal boat ?

 

Announced in February 2019 and in effect from February 2022 (delayed from 2021), all homes in Scotland must be fitted with interlinked smoke and heat alarms. Most homes will also need a carbon monoxide alarm.

Do the new regulations for Scottish smoke and carbon monoxide alarms affect me?

The new requirements apply to all homes in Scotland regardless of the age or type of property. Unlike normal updates to building regulations or British Standards, the new law applies to all types of home. This includes older domestic properties, new builds and homes that have been extended or renovated before or after the rules come into effect. It is the property owner's responsibility to ensure suitable alarms are correctly installed.

 

 

Not all alarms on the market are suitable and choosing the correct alarm is vital to complying with the law. All alarms must be either mains-powered (hardwired to a circuit, not a mains plug) with a backup battery, or powered by a tamper-proof battery that lasts the full lifespan of the alarm. Smoke & heat alarms must also be interlinked so that they all sound as soon as one detects a fire.

Carbon monoxide alarms have the same power requirements but do not need to be interlinked. They are necessary in any property that has a carbon-fuelled appliance (e.g. boiler or open fire) or a flue.

Use our overview below to help you identify how many and what type of alarm you require to comply with the new Scottish law:

• One smoke alarm in the room most frequently used during the daytime.
• One smoke alarm in every circulation space on each storey (e.g. hallways and landings).
• One heat alarm in each kitchen.
• The smoke and heat alarms must be ceiling-mounted and interlinked.
• Where there is a carbon-fuelled appliance or a flue, a carbon monoxide alarm is also required.
• All types of alarm must be mains powered OR powered by a tamper-proof lifetime battery.
• All alarms must be regularly maintained and tested in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

[AndrewIC]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I wonder if I can read 'between the lines' ..........

 

• The FA3313 detector holds a CE & UKCA mark and has been designed to conform to the standards - BS EN 50291-1: 2008 and EN 50291-2: 2019

It has been DESIGNED to comply with the standards, but, has it been tested to the standards and been approved  ?

The FA3313 is certified, including the optional boaty part of EN50291-2. Documents here: https://www.fireangel.co.uk/home/product/fa3313/

 

The BSS website recommends CO detectors certified to EN50291-2 (but doesn’t mention that certification for boats is an option 🙄), but the BSS checking procedures document currently requires only that a detector is certified to some version of EN50291, without further qualification or limitation (other than number, placement, passing self test, etc).

If an examiner failed a boat solely on the grounds that a CO detector which was certified to some version of EN50291 was not certified specifically with the boat option of EN50291-2, then IMHO under the current published BSS documentation they would be in error.

 

[Momac]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

But we should point out for our Northern neighbours that their use in Scotland is illegal.

 

In Scotland it is requirement that alarms must be mains powered, or have non-replacable batteries - wonder how that works out with the BSS on a Scottish liveaboard canal boat ?

 

It looks like all you posted relates to buildings.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, MartynG said:

It looks like all you posted relates to buildings.

 

No - it relates to (quote) "all type of homes"

[Momac]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I wonder if I can read 'between the lines' ..........

 

• The FA3313 detector holds a CE & UKCA mark and has been designed to conform to the standards - BS EN 50291-1: 2008 and EN 50291-2: 2019

It has been DESIGNED to comply with the standards, but, has it been tested to the standards and been approved  ?

Not everything that is designed  in compliance with a standard has to be tested 

 

[Momac]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No - it relates to (quote) "all type of homes"

 It seems to be all related to building standards  which don't apply to boats , even if the boat is a home

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Not everything that is designed  in compliance with a standard has to be tested 

 

 

CO alarm manufacturers have been quoted as saying that their (part 1 and part 2) alarms are identical but because of the small market size they are not prepared to go to the expense of having them certified to Pt2.

 

Hence them having a label showing a boat XXX'd out. 

[Hudds Lad]

This pdf shows the compliant with BS EN 50291-2 from each manufacturer back in 2019

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/294453/bss-co-alarm-guide-2019-comp.pdf

which is how i chose which version to buy back when the shareboat needed a new alarm

 

You’d think they’d have released a more up-to-date one, but seems not