Air Drafts - Bristol to Caen Hill

[Uknighted]

Apologies if this info is already available - I have searched and found nothing.

I have been searching for information in regard to Air Drafts from Bristol to Caen Hill as I have the task of having to relocate a Barge from Essex in early December. I will be getting it delivered to Bristol and then intend to cruise down to Caen Hill. I know completely the wrong time of year, but no choice in the matter.

Is there a listing available of Air Drafts on this route for the various Bridges - I have a wheelhouse at 2.7m (8ft 10") which does collapse to around 6ft 2 inches. Just

trying to work out how cold and wet I am likely to get! Many thanks in anticipation for any advice.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Uknighted said:

Apologies if this info is already available - I have searched and found nothing.

I have been searching for information in regard to Air Drafts from Bristol to Caen Hill as I have the task of having to relocate a Barge from Essex in early December. I will be getting it delivered to Bristol and then intend to cruise down to Caen Hill. I know completely the wrong time of year, but no choice in the matter.

Is there a listing available of Air Drafts on this route for the various Bridges - I have a wheelhouse at 2.7m (8ft 10") which does collapse to around 6ft 2 inches. Just

trying to work out how cold and wet I am likely to get! Many thanks in anticipation for any advice.

 

 

C&RT publish the dimensions (including air-draft /headroom as they call it) for each canal.

They are not always exact and often have a safety factor built in, but it will give you an idea and tou can then ask about any specific height problems and see if anyone has more accurate detail.

 

.Canal & River Max Dimensions.pdf

 

[Tony Brooks]

I think we also need to know the bream and width of the wheelhouse because an arched bridge will allow a greater air draft for a narrow boat than a wide beam. However I can't answer the question.

[Alan de Enfield]

Self explanatory ?

[Uknighted]

The Beam of the boat is 12' 6".  The wheel house is circa 9' 6" to 10'00" - cannot get to measure exactly, but that will be close enough.

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Uknighted said:

The Beam of the boat is 12' 6".  The wheel house is circa 9' 6" to 10'00" - cannot get to measure exactly, but that will be close enough.

 

Yes, now we just need someone who really knows the area to give an answer.

 

One problem I foresee is that a so called wide beam narrow boat (anything up to abut 13ft beam)  probably has less freeboard than a barge from Essex so the fact one of those fits may not help you.

 

A  few years ago I met some chaps physically measuring the bridges to make sure their barge would fit. I fear that you may have to do this yourself.

[Uknighted]

Yes, hopefully someone with local knowledge, or has done the trip.  It will fit at 6'2" but I do not embrace the thought of doing three days with an 'open top' in December!

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Uknighted said:

Yes, hopefully someone with local knowledge, or has done the trip.  It will fit at 6'2" but I do not embrace the thought of doing three days with an 'open top' in December!

 

There is no 'wrong weather' just 'wrong clothes'.

 

Think about those 100s of narrowboat drivers who are always in the 'open' 24/7/365

Edited October 29, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Uknighted said:

Yes, hopefully someone with local knowledge, or has done the trip.  It will fit at 6'2" but I do not embrace the thought of doing three days with an 'open top' in December!

Last time I was that way I had to wait three days to go between Bath and Bristol due to the flow.

Edited October 29, 2021 by ditchcrawler

[Uknighted]

As far as I can make out from the link Alan posted (thanks Alan) is that the only issue is the following one:

 

Hanham Lock to Bridge 194 (Bath) - Church Hill Bridge

Length Beam Draught Headroom

- - - 2.67m - - - 8.76ft

 

The dangerous assumption is that because any particular Bridge is not mentioned then assuming that everything else is a lot higher.

[nb Innisfree]

Back in 2007 a WB  barge did that journey using BW data, suffice to say it got stuck and had to be craned onto a lorry, a right old palaver. Don't trust theoretical info, check personally, a day or two spent driving up and down with a tape measure can save a whole lot of bother. 

[Tony Brooks]

I think Churchill Bridge is on the part that is semi-tidal on spring tides and I know that it is not very high so watch the tides.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Uknighted said:

As far as I can make out from the link Alan posted (thanks Alan) is that the only issue is the following one:

 

Hanham Lock to Bridge 194 (Bath) - Church Hill Bridge

Length Beam Draught Headroom

- - - 2.67m - - - 8.76ft

 

The dangerous assumption is that because any particular Bridge is not mentioned then assuming that everything else is a lot higher.

 

 

If that beam (2.67m) is correct then the airdraft for the whole route becomes moot.

 

It would be worth driving down and having a look.

 

Is there any reason why the boat cannot be dropped in at its final resting place ?

Edited October 29, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[magpie patrick]

I know the whole route (Juno is based at Dundas) but I haven't tried taking a boat that tall along it, however.... 

There are several boats with wheelhouses, they don't all take them down when under way, some of them can't, they're fixed, but they may not be as high as you

 

If you are being launched downstream of Prince Street Bridge, between the Mud Dock and Princes Wharf (Floating Harbour) it will need to be swung or you will need to drop the wheelhouse.

The next one that would worry me is the bridge on Keynsham Cut - You may well fit but it's the lowest on the river between Bristol and Bath, again wheelhouse down no problem.

 

The Churchill Bridge in Bath - probably the lowest on the river, modern concrete structure with a long flat arch

 

On the canal you will either fit under the bridges or you won't - they're all pretty much the same size and I would have thought a wheelhouse 8 foot 10 tall and 10 foot wide would go under if you stick to the towpath side - the centre of the arch is not central over the water because of the towpath. 

 

The one exception (other than swing bridges) is the changeover bridge at Dundas - it has a flat deck and curiously is slightly lower than the arched ones - you may still fit under but be cautious. 

Edited to add, the bridge at the tail of Bradford Lock may also be awkward, same height as the others but no towpath, channel probably 2 feet narrower than a typical bridge and  thus a narrower arch

 

That said, the best bet is to go out with a tape measure and check - also you need to consider how easy you can get the wheelhouse down - is it practical to keep it up until you get to a bridge you are nervous of? 

 

In short, it isn't a lost cause, but be cautious

 

Attached is a (rather poor quality) stock picture of a narrow boat going under Limpley Stoke Bridge, gives you an idea

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by magpie patrick

[dmr]

Bristol to Caan Hill is cruising up rather than down?

So are you getting the boat craned in at Bristol and moving to a spot at Caan Hill Marina?

Foxes boat hire are right next to the marina and I have seen widebeams craned in there, is that an option?

 

In addition to magpies list I am sure there is a low flat bridge on the canal near to Marsh Farm moorings which I think is the lowest bridge on the Western End of the K&A.

[blackrose]

I've done the journey on my 12ft widebeam which doesn't have a wheelhouse, but as someone already said, a NB style widebeam generally has a lower freeboard and possibly airdraft than a Dutch style barge even with a folding wheelhouse. My boat's airdraft is no higher than most modern narrowboats. 

 

The question I would have is why would you want to locate a boat with a suspiciously high airdraft in a place where you know there are low bridges anyway? Even if you do manage to get it through your cruising options are always going to be stressful as you'll be worried about smashing the boat into a bridge. Unless you're not intending to move the boat once located of course.

Edited October 29, 2021 by blackrose

[adrianh]

A boat this wide will have some difficulties between Claverton and Bradford on avon when passing the many similar sized wide beams now resident here because of the sloping side concrete channel . If you are low in the water then  between bath deep lock and towards bathampton can be shallow.

Churchill Bridge may be another obstacle if the river is high, levels change  very quickly due to the upstream adjustable barriers.

A bridge at Hilperton Marsh is low and flat.

The plus point is that you will not have to worry about hire boats!

[Cas446]

Hilperton Marsh Bridge

[Uknighted]

Many thanks to all that responded, I have gained the information that I require now with some further searching on the Forum (still cannot work out the Search engine which only gives 3x topics as a result).

 

I have decided that the time of year is completely wrong as the unknown of water levels (amount of rain) is so uncertain that it is not worth the stress.  I will wait until spring and come down by water, after all it is a Boat!  In summary I would say that it is feasible under the right conditions/water levels.

 

To answer briefly some some comments:  It weighs 37 tons so Bristol is the only local option with a crane.  The wheelhouse collapses to 6 foot 2 inches air draft so no issue there.  Caen Hill is the only place that had space and it would not be the final solution - it was to get the Boat somewhat nearer to us rather than the other side of the country.

 

Once again - thanks all.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Uknighted said:

 

I have decided that the time of year is completely wrong as the unknown of water levels (amount of rain) is so uncertain that it is not worth the stress.  I will wait until spring and come down by water, after all it is a Boat!  In summary I would say that it is feasible under the right conditions/water levels.

 

 

Unless your bit of Essex is on the river Lea or you are in the Thames estuary I don't see how you will get something that wide to Caen Hill  without a lot of very lumpy water boating.

[Uknighted]

Tony - It’s a proper Cat C and has done multiple channel crossings. Right day, right conditions then no problem. I will also have experience on board with the person who has done these crossings and knows the boat.

 

Not far from the Thames Estuary which also mimises exposure

 

Thanks again.

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, Uknighted said:

Tony - It’s a proper Cat C and has done multiple channel crossings. Right day, right conditions then no problem. I will also have experience on board with the person who has done these crossings and knows the boat.

 

Not far from the Thames Estuary which also mimises exposure

 

Thanks again.

 

So no problem around Lands End then. That takes a lot more than just one right day.

 

I fear almost the length of the K&A from Reading may not be passable. (it isn't now anyway - see Burghfield weir topic). The summit pound seemed very shallow to me and there is one lock not far from Reading where full length narrow boats struggle. High Bridge in Reading is anything but high and has a flat arch with very low sides. Even narrow boats come to grief on it. I am not saying it is not possible but you will need to check very carefully.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

Well worth watching Tinothy Spall "Somewhere at Sea"  and his Dutch Barge He took six years to circumnavigate GB.

 

The 1st three episodes were along the South Coast and around Lands End.

Frightening, very very frightening.

 

He had to wait 3 months to get suitable weather to round the Lizard

 

 

Episode 1: The Call of the Sea. This first of three programmes sees Timothy and wife Shane set off in their Dutch barge, the Princess Matilda, from Fowey in Cornwall, heading towards Lands End and then into South Wales. By his own admission, Timothy is an unqualified and slightly nervous mariner, but Shane has every confidence in his seafaring abilities.

 

Episode 2: The Bogey Man Timothy. Spall s voyage around Britain continues with the latest leg of his Cornish adventure. Timothy took to the sea with wife Shane, after recovering from a serious illness and this self taught mariner now has to cope with the highly dangerous waters around Lizard Point if he is to make South Wales by winter.

 

Episode 3: Race Against the Tide. The concluding leg of this part of Timothy Spall s epic sea journey around the coast of Britain. He took to the waters of these islands following a serious illness and hasn t looked back (literally!). In this programme, Timothy aided and abetted by wife Shane, navigates their Durch barge around the dangerous waters of Land s End.

 

 

 

As he rounds the Lizard (28 minutes)

 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Well worth watching Tinothy Spall "Somewhere at Sea"  and his Dutch Barge He took six years to circumnavigate GB.

 

The 1st three episodes were along the South Coast and around Lands End.

Frightening, very very frightening.

 

 

 

Episode 1: The Call of the Sea. This first of three programmes sees Timothy and wife Shane set off in their Dutch barge, the Princess Matilda, from Fowey in Cornwall, heading towards Lands End and then into South Wales. By his own admission, Timothy is an unqualified and slightly nervous mariner, but Shane has every confidence in his seafaring abilities.

 

Episode 2: The Bogey Man Timothy. Spall s voyage around Britain continues with the latest leg of his Cornish adventure. Timothy took to the sea with wife Shane, after recovering from a serious illness and this self taught mariner now has to cope with the highly dangerous waters around Lizard Point if he is to make South Wales by winter.

 

Episode 3: Race Against the Tide. The concluding leg of this part of Timothy Spall s epic sea journey around the coast of Britain. He took to the waters of these islands following a serious illness and hasn t looked back (literally!). In this programme, Timothy aided and abetted by wife Shane, navigates their Durch barge around the dangerous waters of Land s End.

 

 

 

As he rounds the Lizard (28 minutes)

 

 

If I got that stressed boating I would give it up

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If I got that stressed boating I would give it up

 

After Auf Wiedersehen Pet he had a mental breakdown from which he did not completely recover, he was also found to have Leukemia, after his treatment concluded he started off on his 'bucket list trip' and took 6 years to completely circumnavigate around the coast of GB.

It was on his last leg (coming into the Thames) that he got lost going up a small creek and had to call out the lifeboat to guide him back into the Thames.