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PRM 260 noise


frahkn
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Today my PRM 260, which is fitted to a Beta 43, started making a nasty 'graunching' noise on engagement. It sounds fine when running in gear. The noise is only at the moment of going into gear. It doesn't happen every time and happens more when engaging forward than when going into reverse.

 

Can anyone suggest a cause and guess whether it might get me to my home mooring (20 miles and 12 locks)?

 

Thanks,

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3 hours ago, frahkn said:

Today my PRM 260, which is fitted to a Beta 43, started making a nasty 'graunching' noise on engagement. It sounds fine when running in gear. The noise is only at the moment of going into gear. It doesn't happen every time and happens more when engaging forward than when going into reverse.

 

Can anyone suggest a cause and guess whether it might get me to my home mooring (20 miles and 12 locks)?

 

Thanks,

Any help on this?

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9 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Any help on this?

 

Two ideas, mebbe neither a great deal of help...

 

1) Have you checked the oil level in the D260?

2) Engage it in ahead and stop the engine well in advance of needing to stop at locks, instead of using astern. Then bow-haul the boat in.

 

Which leads to a question. Does the graunching noise happen if you start the engine with "ahead" previously selected? 

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If the noise is just as drive engages then that would suggest a clutch issue but that's not really likely, the PRM260 is pretty bombproof.

Can you lift the engine covers and watch as drive is engaged? Is it possible that a mount has sheared and the engine is moving badly just as drive is engaged?

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First, thanks for the responses. I'll try to deal with the various points.

 

Have not checked the oil level but will in the morning. I am trying to minimise my gear changes  as much as possible.

 

I'll try starting it in gear tomorrow.

 

The engine is in an engine room about 16 feet forward of the prop. The engine and the shaft mounts seem to be ok, all bolts are tight but there is some forward/backward play in the drive shaft. I don't know if this is a new factor because I haven't needed to check before.

 

The gearbox, but not the engine moves a bit as gear is selected, again I do not know if this is new as I can't normally see it.

 

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4 minutes ago, frahkn said:

First, thanks for the responses. I'll try to deal with the various points.

 

Have not checked the oil level but will in the morning. I am trying to minimise my gear changes  as much as possible.

 

I'll try starting it in gear tomorrow.

 

The engine is in an engine room about 16 feet forward of the prop. The engine and the shaft mounts seem to be ok, all bolts are tight but there is some forward/backward play in the drive shaft. I don't know if this is a new factor because I haven't needed to check before.

 

The gearbox, but not the engine moves a bit as gear is selected, again I do not know if this is new as I can't normally see it.

 

 

I am sure  the gearbox should be bolted straight on the back of a Bea 43 so it seems that either your boat is very non-standard or the gearbox is loose on its bolts. This may well have damaged the drive plate. Job 1 is to tighten all the gearbox to adaptor plate and adaptor plate to flywheel housing bolts.

 

Job 2 is to post a photo in case it is non-standard.

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

Is this a strange setup with the gearbox remote from the engine with an intermediate shaft? We need a photo. Otherwise as Tony says, something is coming undone.

No, it's a standard layout as far as I can see, but I thought that perhaps there were additional supports for the gearbox.

 

Photos will have to wait for the morning.

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5 hours ago, frahkn said:

No, it's a standard layout as far as I can see, but I thought that perhaps there were additional supports for the gearbox.

 

Photos will have to wait for the morning.

 

In which case the gearbox should be bolted solidly and securely to the engine so engine and gearbox are as one. 

 

Given what you say about the gearbox moving but not the engine, I'd say this is 100% the source of your odd noise. You may well get away with just replacing the missing bolts holding the gearbox to the engine or re-tightening them if still there and just loose, but this needs doing immediately. Before even starting the engine again, I'd suggest, to prevent the possibility of further (or any) damage. 

 

 

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Right, looked at it in the calmer light of today.

 

Went to dip the oil and the filler bolt was loose, there was no oil showing on the dip-stick. Filled it to the upper of the two marks. I should say (in mitigation of my shoddy maintenance) that although there is an engine room, the gearbox is awkward to access as it's partially under a partition.

 

With the oil replaced the 'graunching' improved in that it does not happen when going into reverse and only about 50% of the time when going into forward.

 

On closer examination (I was a bit het-up yesterday) the movement is fairly limited and the engine does move with the gearbox.

 

I am hopeful that it will get me home before anything actually falls apart.

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8 hours ago, Loddon said:

Was that the upper if the two marks with the dipstick screwed right in?

I have bad news for you if it was with the dipstick loose😯

No, I have the manual for the gearbox, it was with the dipstick screwed in, don't panic (about that aspect at least).

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Our 260 is just coming up to 20,000 hours. It was stripped a couple of years ago to fix an oil leak but no parts, not even the clutches, needed replacing. Keep the oil topped up and change it every 600 hours and all should be well.

Maybe the low oil level was giving marginal engagement??? but this does not explain the delayed recovery.

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4 minutes ago, dmr said:

Our 260 is just coming up to 20,000 hours. It was stripped a couple of years ago to fix an oil leak but no parts, not even the clutches, needed replacing. Keep the oil topped up and change it every 600 hours and all should be well.

Maybe the low oil level was giving marginal engagement??? but this does not explain the delayed recovery.

Mine is just over 12,000 hours, assuming it is original to the boat. Could it really have lost its oil due to the loose plug? I'd love to think that all is now well but struggle to believe this.

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2 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Mine is just over 12,000 hours, assuming it is original to the boat. Could it really have lost its oil due to the loose plug? I'd love to think that all is now well but struggle to believe this.

 

Do you keep a close eye on what goes on under the engine? and is it clean so you can spot any oil leakage?

 

There is usually a dribble from the control lever. The input shaft seal can also leak so there should be a drain hole in the bottom of the bellhousing.

So do you think you lost the oil from a loose drain plug? or do you mean the dipstick? The 260 holds quite a bit of oil so a leak should be obvious.

How often do you change the oil?

...do you have an oil cooler and do you keep an eye on the cooling water?

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16 hours ago, dmr said:

Our 26o is just coming up to 20,000 hours. It was stripped a couple of years ago to fix an oil leak but no parts, not even the clutches, needed replacing. Keep the oil topped up and change it every 600 hours and all should be well.

Maybe the low oil level was giving marginal engagement??? but this does not explain the delayed recovery.

 

The PRM 260D on Helvetia was strippeed and inspected when we had the engine re-built at 23,000 hours. The engineer could not find anything that needed replacement, so apart from new gaskets and oil seals it was simply re built. Prior to the rebuild I spoke to PRM who assured me that with the set up and boat I had, the gearbox would outlast me (even if I was only 21)

 

363586523_22GearboxGears.JPG.b458c323e2c4a07a4bca5fcbd7f176be.JPG

 

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7 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

The PRM 260D on Helvetia was strippeed and inspected when we had the engine re-built at 23,000 hours. The engineer could not find anything that needed replacement, so apart from new gaskets and oil seals it was simply re built. Prior to the rebuild I spoke to PRM who assured me that with the set up and boat I had, the gearbox would outlast me (even if I was only 21)

 

363586523_22GearboxGears.JPG.b458c323e2c4a07a4bca5fcbd7f176be.JPG

 

They are British engineering at its superb best.  The previous PRM 160 was good, unless you got water in it when the "cardboard" clutch linings would disintegrate.

 

260 and 280 use bronze I believe, certainly not paper based.

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2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

They are British engineering at its superb best.  The previous PRM 160 was good, unless you got water in it when the "cardboard" clutch linings would disintegrate.

 

260 and 280 use bronze I believe, certainly not paper based.

 

I agree.  PRM stands for Percy Riley Motors set up by Percy Riley, unsung engineering genius behind the design and manufacture of Riley cars from 1913 until his untimely death in 1941.

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