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Who are BMW as a mediation body?


Adventurer

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14 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

But if it's been subject to a further (unconditional) offer why doesn't the listing/ad. say so?

 

I find all of this very very strange.

I dont believe they received an unconditional offer and are now looking for one.

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Adventurer,

 

As the broker has in effect cancelled the agreement and no longer wishes to deal with you then IMO you are entitled to a refund of your deposit.  If the broker is unwilling to do this then I suggest you contact your debit card issuer and ask them to commence a chargeback for the transaction.   This facility is time limited so best to start it ASAP if you’re unable to get the refund direct from the broker.
 

Chargeback info link

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As the seller of the boat I do not want to enter a debate about the sale, part of my decision to go with a broker is to separate myself from direct negotiation with prospective buyers, but some clarification may be helpful here.

 

1. The broker found it necessary to terminate a relationship with somebody allegedly prepared to pay the full asking price subject to survey, before the survey had taken place.  Brokers do not do this  without good reason!

2. Once the decision was taken to terminate the relationship, the necessary steps to return the deposit were begun.  This has now been completed and the deposit has been returned.  Once done, the "under offer" status of the sale was revoked.

3. Some of the information given to the forum was wrong, and significant omissions were made.  

4. If the buyer concerned came back with an offer of £100,000, it would be refused.

 

This is all to the best of my understanding at the present time.

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3 hours ago, agg221 said:

There is also a practical point. My (limited) experience suggests that anything other than 3rd party insurance is difficult to get without some form of survey, so in the end it is going to have to be done anyway.

 

Your lack pof knowledge is showing - with the majority of boats there is no insurance requirement to have a survey.

This 'insurance survey'  will only (normally) apply to boats over 25 or 30 years old.

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8 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

As the seller of the boat I do not want to enter a debate about the sale, part of my decision to go with a broker is to separate myself from direct negotiation with prospective buyers, but some clarification may be helpful here.

 

1. The broker found it necessary to terminate a relationship with somebody allegedly prepared to pay the full asking price subject to survey, before the survey had taken place.  Brokers do not do this  without good reason!

2. Once the decision was taken to terminate the relationship, the necessary steps to return the deposit were begun.  This has now been completed and the deposit has been returned.  Once done, the "under offer" status of the sale was revoked.

3. Some of the information given to the forum was wrong, and significant omissions were made.  

4. If the buyer concerned came back with an offer of £100,000, it would be refused.

 

This is all to the best of my understanding at the present time.

 So as so often happens on here we are not being told the full story.

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3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I do accept you have been treated abysmally and there is no excuse for breaking the terms of a contract morally speaking, but it happens in life and I find it helps to understand the motivations of the other party. I have been trying to help you understand why it happened to you.

 

Your remedy in law is to sue for compensation. Should you end up buying an equivalent boat for more money, you could (in theory) sue Venetian for your loss, i.e. the extra money you had to pay as a result of them not performing the contract. 

 

My view is life is too short, just take your chances and buy a boat, warts and all! 

 

Good advice. Six years ago I signed a contract that the broker's staff told me was binding and transferred a deposit that arrived in the broker's account.

 

The broker himself then phoned me to tell me - quite aggressively - that I wasn't getting the boat. What I suspect happened is that while his staff were selling the boat to me he had directly sold it to someone else. I'd like to think that the value he sold it for was less than the value I had offered and the broker ended up footing the difference to the seller.

 

I ended up buying a more suitable and nicer boat for over £5k less a month later (albeit a more risky proposition) .

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Sadly the deposit has NOT been returned and the seller not given the facts of the matter, only what the broker has told him.

 

As a result I have decided to refer this matter to arbitration and if necessary court. This now becomes a matter of principle. This sort of bullying needs to stop.

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2 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

Sadly the deposit has NOT been returned and the seller not given the facts of the matter, only what the broker has told him.

 

As a result I have decided to refer this matter to arbitration and if necessary court. This now becomes a matter of principle. This sort of bullying needs to stop.


The chargeback facility, as I posted above, is much simpler and free.

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8 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

Sadly the deposit has NOT been returned and the seller not given the facts of the matter, only what the broker has told him.

 

As a result I have decided to refer this matter to arbitration and if necessary court. This now becomes a matter of principle. This sort of bullying needs to stop.

I fear this will not end well for you and will not be a positive experience. In your shoes I would insist on my deposit refund immediately and walk swiftly away. It may not feel it at the moment but there will be other boats. You risk causing yourself a lot of heartache which could impact on your long-term enjoyment of boating and the canals. It seems that you have probably been dealt with shoddily by the broker but you are not the first and I expect will not be the last. Don't let this put you off what should be a happy and exciting time.

 

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15 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

Sadly the deposit has NOT been returned and the seller not given the facts of the matter, only what the broker has told him.

 

As a result I have decided to refer this matter to arbitration and if necessary court. This now becomes a matter of principle. This sort of bullying needs to stop.

 

Just because it's not appeared in your bank account doesn't mean the broker hasn't initiated the transfer.

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38 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

As the seller of the boat I do not want to enter a debate about the sale, part of my decision to go with a broker is to separate myself from direct negotiation with prospective buyers, but some clarification may be helpful here.

 

1. The broker found it necessary to terminate a relationship with somebody allegedly prepared to pay the full asking price subject to survey, before the survey had taken place.  Brokers do not do this  without good reason!

2. Once the decision was taken to terminate the relationship, the necessary steps to return the deposit were begun.  This has now been completed and the deposit has been returned.  Once done, the "under offer" status of the sale was revoked.

3. Some of the information given to the forum was wrong, and significant omissions were made.  

4. If the buyer concerned came back with an offer of £100,000, it would be refused.

 

This is all to the best of my understanding at the present time.

Interesting that you have taken judgement against me without knowing anything about me nor the facts.

I will try not take this personally and see this as a reflection of you, perhaps the broker is a friend of yours?

 

Perhaps you took offense that I wanted to survey your boat, and there was good reason for that.

 

If there was another offer, which you have not disclosed, the boat would not today show as being available for sale.

 

Something is not quite right & think I dodged a bullet.

 

In any event, 

as the saying goes " birds of a feather...."

 

 

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It's just occurred to me that I'm sure this particular broker, along with a view others, used to take the view that a deposit was a commitment to sale, a sort of down payment, if you like, which was only refundable in the event of some significant fault with the boat being revealed by a professional survey.  As far as I know Great Haywood still operate this way, ie their view is that a deposit effectively locks you into the sale.  

 

If I am right, the broker we're talking about has changed their policy, and it makes you wonder why, unless it is to allow them the freedom to do what is being alleged in this thread.

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The " very good" reason the seller believes the brokerage must have had for cancelling the sale was " my disgusting behaviour."  Apparently if you question any service levels or brokerage practices, this is unacceptable practice.

 

Whilst the feeling is mutual I respect the contract I signed and am prepared to honour it. Not all businesses are honourable  despite his claim that he is a family run  business with sound ethics and business principles.

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3 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

The " very good" reason the seller believes the brokerage must have had for cancelling the sale was " my disgusting behaviour." 

Whilst the feeling is mutual I respect the contract I signed and am prepared to honour it. Not all businesses are honourable  despite his claim that he is a family run  business with sound ethics and business principles.

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Well, "disgusting behaviour" or not, I'd say that's game set and match.  It's very clear from the above that payment of a deposit constitutes a sale, the broker can't have it both ways.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Adventurer said:

The " very good" reason the seller believes the brokerage must have had for cancelling the sale was " my disgusting behaviour."  Apparently if you question any service levels or brokerage practices, this is unacceptable practice.

 

Did you phrase this questioning in a rude or condescending manner? Or to put it another way, with the benefit of hindsight could you have phrased any of your conversations with the broker better? I'm not suggesting you did this, I'm just trying to work out why the broker would say you behaved disgustingly. 

 

To be honest if they refuse to sell a boat to you and refund your deposit, I'm not sure what realistic recourse you have. 

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15 minutes ago, booke23 said:

To be honest if they refuse to sell a boat to you and refund your deposit, I'm not sure what realistic recourse you have. 

 

Probably a maximum of the interest on the deposit at the rate stated for late payment in the contract.

 

Pennies over a few days I would expect.  It's not an amount I'd bother pursuing through small claims, but I can understand it's infuriating for the OP.

 

I would think the alleged "disgusting behaviour" must have been fairly spectacular if it stopped any broker taking a full asking price offer though!

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Your lack pof knowledge is showing - with the majority of boats there is no insurance requirement to have a survey.

This 'insurance survey'  will only (normally) apply to boats over 25 or 30 years old.

Fair enough - I did state my knowledge was limited, in this case to three experiences, one v.old, another 40yrs old which would explain it, the third was under 5yrs old so not sure why that was needed.

 

Alec

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38 minutes ago, booke23 said:

To be honest if they refuse to sell a boat to you and refund your deposit, I'm not sure what realistic recourse you have. 

 

The dispute now seems to have morphed into how the deposit is to be repaid. 

 

The broker wants to do a bank transfer and is requesting bank details. Adventurer seems to be withholding bank details and wants the deposit refunded back onto the card used to pay it. 

 

Both seem to be digging in their heels. If this gets as far a court the judge will take an extremely dim view of the behaviour of both of them.

 

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1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Probably a maximum of the interest on the deposit at the rate stated for late payment in the contract.

 

Pennies over a few days I would expect.  It's not an amount I'd bother pursuing through small claims, but I can understand it's infuriating for the OP.

 

I would think the alleged "disgusting behaviour" must have been fairly spectacular if it stopped any broker taking a full asking price offer 

 

Lets not jump the gun.I am seeking legal advice first & ensure that I make an informed decision. Judgement will be passed on the defaulting party. I would like to see justice done & ensure that this bullying tactic is not abused again in the future. It appears that a judgement against the company regardless of the monetary value may be what's required to prevent a perpetuating pattern by the defaulting party.

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3 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

My original post was to seek mediation to resolve this matter fairly.

 

Why do you need mediation? They've offered to refund your deposit if you send them a bank account and sort code to refund it to.

 

 

 

 

 

Or are you wanting something else? If so, what?

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Something must have happened to trigger an accusation of disgusting behaviour. This may be a misunderstanding, it may be a discussion seen as aggressive, it may even  these days, be related to pandemic etiquette. But there must have been something, and maybe sorting that out would be a place to start, instead of adding to the confrontation with more threats.

There are very few winners in going to law, and the ones who do win are usually the big battalions. It seems a bit of an over the top response to a boat deal falling through - it happens all the time. The seller has indicated that you aint getting the boat, so I'd cut your losses and your blood pressure and look for another one.

Wanting life to be "fair" is a trifle immature, tbh. It's not, it never was, and the law has nothing to do with justice. There are plenty of nice boats out there.

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Thank you for your comment.

The trigger:   holding them accountable for their post sales actions  has triggered a reaction. Standing up to bullying and wanting the law enforced subsequently.

If you  read up on the history of dealings people have had with these marina's, there is more to this than another fallen boat sale. That is the very reason Bully's get away with this. Put me in the same category as the legal fraternity of seeking justice if you must. Until you have been on the receiving end, its very easy to judge & criticise from a distance. 

 

I am happy to move on to another boat and be compensated fairly for my having to do so. 

 

Mediation is not costly nor antagonistic, neither is small claims court.

 

Thank you all for your comments & advice. I will make the right decision for me.

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