Gardner Vs Russel Newbury

[BarnBrian]

Any advice or opinions as to which is the best choice between Gardner and Russel Newbury engines. Which is the quieter/smoother running of the two?

 

Brian

[magnetman]

My pre-edit post is quoted below.

Edited October 23, 2007 by magnetman

[Chris-B]

You can get all the parts for RN not sure if thats the case with Gardner, I prefer RN as they are marine units but I've got one so I'm biased.

 

No question about it......

GET A LISTER

 

 

lol

[BarnBrian]

No question about it......

GET A LISTER

lol

I'm afraid Listers aren't in the race for me. Having worked with Lister powered diving compressors for many years I don't think I could stand the noise. I can't deny that they're a reliable beast though.

 

Brian

[denboy]

No doubts about it get a kelvin

[carlt]

I've seen some rattly old noisy gardners and some lovely quiet JP's. Isn't ther sound of a slow running vintage diesel the main attraction?

 

No point suggesting Armstrong Siddeleys I guess. Reliability and a noise matched only by a bolly, and aircooled as the clincher.

[Gibbo]

I have a Gardner 4LW. It works beautifully, but it's rattly and noisy. There again my mate has one and his is almost silent.

 

I suppose the same could be said of any engine, except for Listers, which are all noisy.

 

Gibbo

[BarnBrian]

I have a Gardner 4LW. It works beautifully, but it's rattly and noisy. There again my mate has one and his is almost silent.

 

I suppose the same could be said of any engine, except for Listers, which are all noisy.

 

Gibbo

Aah! A realistic answer instead of waffle.

Thanks Gibbo!!

 

Brian

[carlt]

Aah! A realistic answer instead of waffle.

Thanks Gibbo!!

 

Brian

Surely the realistic answer is: if you want a quiet, smooth running engine, don't buy vintage.

 

Don't know what your definition of 'waffle' is. I always thought it was to waver, hesitate or vacillate, none of the previous posts do any of this.

[John Orentas]

Aah! A realistic answer instead of waffle.

Thanks Gibbo!!

 

 

Definition:- The one you want to read or hear.

[PaddingtonBear]

I suppose the answer is it depends on several factors, how much money you have, the history of the engine, the quality of the overhaul/rebuild (see Hadar's blog for a bad example of the former) and how available an engine is at the time that you want it. I understand from another forum that 2LWs in almost any condition are £10000 'trade' as there aren't any around any more - All the 'mine' engines have been used up. This posses a substantial problem to those who wish for a 'traditional' engine in their boat as the scarcity and the inexactitude of words like rebuilt/refurbished/overhauled leaves those who wish one open to a substantial risk of exploitation. I am afraid unless you are like Carl or Gibbo and can get anything for a sack of ferrets and two jam jars the only way to go is to pull up the £16800 and have a 'new' 2 Cyl RN although I think a 3CYL National is just the business :cheers:

[Keeping Up]

I saw this wonderful Gardner in Birmingham this summer. Oh for a boat big enough to put it in!

 

 

Allan

[andywatson]

No question about it......

GET A LISTER

lol

 

Referring to the quote post re Gardner not being marine engines :

 

The mini submarines which were used to attack the Turpitz were powered by Gardner engines..........

 

They might not have been used in NBs but you can't beat that for a bit of marine cred.

Edited October 23, 2007 by andywatson

[magnetman]

I edited my post to remove the marine engine reference and replace it with 'not narrowboat engines' but i was quoted anyway so the edit was pointless. The 8L3 Pictured is probably a marine unit but not suitable for a nb (enterprise has a 5L2 thats the biggest Gardner I know of in a narrowboat).I edited my post to remove the marine engine reference and replace it with 'not narrowboat engines' but i was quoted anyway so the edit was pointless. The 8L3 Pictured is probably a marine unit but not suitable for a nb (enterprise has a 5L2 thats the biggest Gardner I know of in a narrowboat).

[Travis]

Andy, I'm sure the mini sub in the Imperial War Museum in London has a Perkins fitted, and as a lorry driver of thirty years I can assure you the Gardners I had to suffer put me off them for life. smoky, hard to start, smelly things...Every morning they were sat in a pool of oil, honestly.

On our last narrowboat build I had a free choice of several engines, went for a Lister HRW3...stonkin' engine.

 

Regards, Andy.

[Sir Nibble]

Andy, I'm sure the mini sub in the Imperial War Museum in London has a Perkins fitted, and as a lorry driver of thirty years I can assure you the Gardners I had to suffer put me off them for life. smoky, hard to start, smelly things...Every morning they were sat in a pool of oil, honestly.

On our last narrowboat build I had a free choice of several engines, went for a Lister HRW3...stonkin' engine.

 

Regards, Andy.

There is one of the "Tirpitz" attack "X craft" in the RN submarine museum just down the road from me and it has a 4LW.

When I worked for a bus company we used to struggle to start leyland engines on a cold morning, but Gardners always started well unless they were ill and needed work. Gardners have a world wide reputation for reliability and perhaps

Every morning they were sat in a pool of oil,

says it all.

[saltysplash]

Not sure about their reputation on canals but on the salty wobbly bits of water Gardner has a reputation second to non. My 4L3 fitted on Emblem after she was decommissiond by the admiralty at the end of the war has been chugging away merrilly for the last 62 years. She has always been totally raw water cooled and has never failed to start or slow to start even when going for a trip in the winter months. The only maintainence is oil change once a year and regular greasing of the grease points.

 

Edited October 24, 2007 by saltysplash

[Gibbo]

and as a lorry driver of thirty years I can assure you the Gardners I had to suffer put me off them for life. smoky, hard to start, smelly things

 

Odd, the general opinion by almost everyone with experience of Gardners is that they are about the most reliable engines around and I have NEVER heard of complains about "hard to start".

 

Did you type the wrong engine name by mistake or did you have a rubbish mechanic?

 

Gibbo

[carlt]

Odd, the general opinion by almost everyone with experience of Gardners is that they are about the most reliable engines around and I have NEVER heard of complains about "hard to start".

 

Did you type the wrong engine name by mistake or did you have a rubbish mechanic?

 

Gibbo

His sack of ferrets that he paid for it probably wasn't full.

[Travis]

Nawww Giggo,

 

I was working for a particular large haulage company which had several Seddon Atkinsons with 201 Gardners in 'em. They were dreadful....dreadful I tell you!

 

Then came along some Seddys with 290 Cummins, which were far better. Next we got Scanias with 360's, which were another story.

 

If you were sent to the naughty room you were given one of the old Seddy 201's as punishment for a week.

 

We lent one to a company in Preston to use as a shunt motor for a while, they must have left it ticking over for days at a time, when I collected it, it was still chucking out white smoke when I got it back to Rochdale. I took it up Windy Hill (slowly of course, always slowly) to clear it out.

 

I called at our boatbuilders recently for a chinwag, a guy there was working on his nearly completed boat. He had this ruddy great five cylinder Gardner fitted and could not wait to show it me when he ran it up. Damn near cleared the towpath of walkers when it fired up, just like a Navy surplus smokescreen.

 

I could tell tales about my mates ex GMC bus they used as Scout Drum Band transporter but I'll save it. I have a feeling this may run a little longer.......

 

Andy.

[magnetman]

The environment agency recently re-engined their fleet of tugs with Scania's, took out the Gardner's. i guess this was to do with the fact you can't get a new Gardner any more.

[Travis]

Magnets,

 

you can buy a Gardner engine, but they are now made in Leyland, in the old Leyland truck factory. It's full of men in long grey oily coats who wax on about the Gardner range, but they do know their stuff, I'll agree.

 

The new factory was built by Paccar (from the good ol' USA) when they bought out Leyland Trucks...ater the split with DAF....you'll not buy a branny from Patricroft anymore. When we passed the factory in June it looked derelict, probably a housing estate now.

 

Andy

[magnetman]

Thanks for putting me right on that I did wonder after posting if i was wrong..

[Phil Speight]

Any advice or opinions as to which is the best choice between Gardner and Russel Newbury engines. Which is the quieter/smoother running of the two?

 

Brian

Personally I think that both , though very fine in their own right , are rather an expensive way to push a boat along. My choice would be a Lister HRW witha decent silencer if the boat had an engine room or something silently oriental tucked out of the way if it hadn`t.

We see a number of boats hereabouts with 3 and 4 cylinder Gardners and I always worry that such an engine cannot possibly work hard enough to remain healthy in a narrow boat . Years ago a twin cylinderNational ( effectively a Russell Newbury in ths context ) would drive a motor boat , and a butty plus a designed load capacity of 70 tons at a theoritical speed of , I think , 6 knots. They never did because the water wasn`t deep enough - but it illustrates my point. A multi cylinder high capacity "classic" diesel engine needs to work to stay sweet.

Whatever , both are well built , certainly the new RNs are extremely well put together. My only doubt about the twins is , as I already said, aren`t they rather an expensive way to spin a propellor ? Perhaps the RN has historic "traditional " relevance and sounds nice , and perhaps the Gardner has become an icon that sounds nice. So "either " would seem my second best answer - just don`t have the extra brass bits.

Cheers

Phil

Edited October 29, 2007 by Phil Speight

[Liam]

I know of a 6 cylinder Gardner in a 60ft ish narrowboat. You always know which boat it is as soon as it comes around the corner as you can see the vibration coming off the hull.

 

I don't have much experience of Gardners at all, although I did handle a 57ft'er with a 3LW in for about 2 hours coming back from a trip.... but personally, I prefer Lister.