Foundry marking identification.

[Robert B.]

I had a go today at deciphering the faintest suggestion of a foundry marking on one of Sara's frames yesterday. The original lettering does not seem to have been particularly bold and several thick coats of paint had made all but the TS  fairly indistinct.  After a bit of wet n dry I had the following results:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not so sure about the characters either side of the rivet, but TS HILL IRON Co looks fairly convincing to me. Poping that string into google brings up HARTS HILL IRON Co. of Dudley, established in 1846, which agrees with an assumed 1850's date for the hull. 

 

This raises the question of whether they simply supplied the raw stock for someone else to make the hull, or did they build it themselves under contract? Interestingly they appear to have built other boats - BHP No.2  still being extant (Edit: unless this is a modern attribution due to being displayed in Dudley close to the iron works site?). The overlaping plates on Sara's bow and stern are very much in the style of black country day boats.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Robert B.
Adding more context, less waffle.

[Athy]

Good detective work, and it must be exciting to find such a clue from the distant past.

 

The only Hartshill I know is just North of  Nuneaton, but of course there may be others.

[David Mack]

Those knees are rolled, not cast, and so those are not foundry marks. The name would have been cut into the rollers so it appears as raised lettering on the final product. Hartshill Iron Co would have supplied various boatbuilders (and others) with a range of standard rolled sections.

 

You can sometimes see the makers name rolled into steel beams used in bridges and buildings.

Edited May 13, 2021 by David Mack

[Bee]

David is right, they are rolled but I have never seen that section used anywhere else so presumably it was just for boatbuilding 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

45 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Those knees are rolled, not cast, and so those are not foundry marks. The name would have been cut into the rollers so it appears as raised lettering on the final product. Hartshill Iron Co would have supplied various boatbuilders (and others) with a range of standard rolled sections.

 

You can sometimes see the makers name rolled into steel beams used in bridges and buildings.

Likely rolled and supplied in longer lengths too and the boat builder would then cut off the length needed for each one and make the bends and holes in it. Hence, the rivet hole made right through the name (assuming the name is correct).

[dave moore]

Hartshill is an area of Brierley Hill, near Dudley.

[David Mack]

The same section used on Belfast, built by Harland and Wolff at North Woolwich. No makers mark here, but there may be elsewhere on the boat.

 

The section was generally referred to as 'omega iron'. It is long obsolete, as it doesn't really offer any advantage over a simple rectangular section strip. But its single armed cousin, the bulb flat is still used to stiffen relatively thin plates in shipbuilding and bridges.

Edited May 13, 2021 by David Mack

[Derek R.]

Same forgings in TYCHO, marked HARTSHILL. Middle Northwich.

 

[roland elsdon]

Poking around rural australia you find steel bridges pre fabricated in the black country and sent out as fully knocked down kits.

Lots of forging marks on the rolled fabrications. Used to make us nostalgic.

Then we came back. Bad mistake.

[Chris M Jones]

The rolled knees in NUTFIELD ex-GUCCC large Northwich motor built by Yarwood’s are marked Harts Hill Iron Co. I’ve similar on other ex-GUCCC boats.

[Tim Lewis]

13 hours ago, dave moore said:

Hartshill is an area of Brierley Hill, near Dudley.

 

From t'internet:

 

Harts Hill Iron Company, Ltd. (successors to Messrs Hingley and Smith), iron manufacturers, Brierley Hill (one of the group of companies associated with N. Hingley and Sons, Ltd., Netherton, subsequently part of the F.H. Lloyd and Triplex Lloyd groups). Harts Hill Iron Company was the producer of Best Yorkshire, Crown Iron Bars, Grade 'A', Grade 'B'. Angles, bars, rounds, flats, fencing channels, and tees. The company was based at Harts Hill Ironworks, Brierley Hill. It was reported in the Express & Star dated 1969, that the closure of the Company the was due the following year due to re-organisation of the parent company F.H. Lloyd Ltd.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Tim Lewis

[David Mack]

On 13/05/2021 at 13:15, David Mack said:

The same section used on Belfast, built by Harland and Wolff at North Woolwich. No makers mark here, but there may be elsewhere on the boat.

 

Yup. Harts Hill Iron Co marking on this knee in Belfast's engine room.

[Heartland]

Hartshill Ironworks had an earlier history. I record William Jeffries as the first in my book South Staffordshire Ironmasters.

 

But is in the Brierley Hill area

 

From my records 

Dudley Records Office :

 Hartshill Ironworks MS, April 1868

Valuation of Hingley & Smith, Hartshill IW 8 April 1868 by Richard Clarke, 38 Cannon Street :

Works bounded by new street on one side and canal on another. Site comprises 4 acres and has a frontage of 6 boats length to canal-

Offices, Roll Tweener Shop, Engine Houses

Forge & Mill No 1 & 2 in wood with slate roof and iron pillars

Forge No 3 wood with slate roof and cast iron pillars

Mill No.3- wood with slate roof

Carpenters Shop, Smiths Shop

Wood and slate roof over puddling furnaces 37ft x 28 ft

Stable and counting house

 

Forge No 1       - a single puddling furnace, a single puddling and ball furnace, and two groups of 4 puddling furnaces

Forge No 2       - two puddling furnaces, one puddling furnace, four puddling furnaces, two puddling furnaces and two puddling furnaces

Forge No 3       -4 puddling furnaces and stores, four puddling furnaces, which work to two heating furnaces then to Guide Mill

Mill No 1 & 2   - 3 mill furnaces, two mill furnaces, three bulldog, or cinder, kilns of red brick, Low Pressure Beam Engine Cylinder 20 in x 5ft 6in.9 inch Guide Mill with set of three high bolting rolls and 3 high strand rolls, low pressure beam engine 36 in cylinder x 5ft 9in stroke

Helve Forge      20 in forge train with 1 pair of forge rolls to roll 4 in, 3 1/2 in 2 in width. High-pressure Beam Engine by T Holcroft with 24 in cylinder x 6ft stroke

Helve Forge      Mine crusher or ball dry rolls, 20 in forge train with pair of 6 in and 4 in bar rolls; 5 in and 2 1/2 in billet rolls, pair of 7 in and 8 in bar rolls, pair of 9 in and 12 in bar rolls

Helve Forge      Boiler plate shears by D Rowley, low pressure beam engine by Boulton and Watt, 48 in cylinder x 8 ft stroke, driving gear, 18 inch merchant mill with one set of hard rolls, small vertical steam engine 6 1/2 in cylinder x 12 inch, high pressure steam engine with 12 in cylinde, 6 in merchant bar and slitting mill with pair bolting rolls from 5 in to 3 1/2 in

Total valuation £19,900