Changing the layout of a Second Hand boat

[bircher]

Hi everyone! 
 

My partner and I are looking at second hand boats. We want a narrowboat between 50-58ft. We have found a couple of boats that seem to fit the bill in terms of size and  condition but we have a very specific idea of how we want to organise the interior. 
 

Specifically, we’d like to have a central walk way throughout our boat which would mean moving some of the appliances (sinks, mainly) from their position as most second hand narrowboats we look at do not have this layout. 
 

We’ve found a 57 ft boat that we like. It doesn’t have the layout we want but would be a good foundation to work upon. Before we consider buying we’d like to get an idea of how much we’d spend on refitting the sinks and moving the walls so that we can have the central walk way we want. We’re still very  new to boating and don’t know how much a re-plumbing job would be. 
 

Does anyone have experience of this and would you be able to give a rough ball park figure of how plausible/expensive this would be?

[Alan de Enfield]

 

The answer is impossible to provide, without a schedule of works.

 

A central corridor sounds 'nice. but remember that if you are having a clear space all the way along the length of the boat that is wide enough to pass through, then you only have ~2 feet (600mm) either side - so, for example you will be forced to have a single bed(s) 2 feet wide (a normal single is 3' and a 'small' single is 2' 6", so you will need a special bed building and special mattresses manufactured. All more cost.

The boat hull is only about 6' wide. If you are having a narrowboat there are only certain ways to fit it out and the width is a huge constaint.

 

Are you planning to do all the work yourselves so looking simply for the cost of materials ?

Are you looking to employ an 'odd job man' on a day rate ?

Are you looking to take the boat to a marine workshop and have the job done 'properly' ?

 

Professional labour will cost you in excess of £50 +VAT per hour. (London may be as much as £75 +VAT per hour)

We had a bedroom changed around, a pump-out tank removed, the bathroom wall moved and a cassette toilet fitted. The cost was £11,000 + VAT. some 10 years ago.

 

If moving things like gas appliances or sinks, you will need to be aware of the regulations, for example if you are planning to be liveaboards then you should use Gas-Safe (boat qualified) LPG fitters ( a domestic 'gas-man' will not have the correct qualifications).

When drilling holes in the side of the boat remember the guidance regarding the height above the water line of any hull openings (for drains etc)

 

Depending on the extent of the work it could easily become a £20,000 job (at boat-yard rates) when you take into consideration all the 'making-good' of the walls etc where you have moved walls, cupboards etc.

 

It is more expensive to rip-out, move, repair than it is to start with an empty 'sail away' hull and build what you want from scratch.

LIke with (say) a burnt out house that you want to rebuild - you have all the demolition, site clearance and rubbish removal, before you can start building. Buy an 'empty' plot of land and you are straight into building.

 

Look at buying a 'sailaway or a 'sailaway+' from a boat builder and get what you want fitted.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Awayonmyboat]

This is one of those "how long is a piece of string" questions - impossible to really answer, but I'll give some thoughts.

 

First, do not be confident that what you want now will turn out to be what you want in a year or so's time after experiencing life onboard. I have a reverse layout boat with the typical L shaped galley. Originally I too thought a straight walk through arrangement would be better and half planned the change. However after a year I'm now happy with the current arrangement and the fact it helps to create a series of rooms feeling on the boat - I now feel a central walkway would feel like living in a long hallway and would not suit me.

 

Secondly, moving the sink is likely to be the least of the problem. Rearranging plumbing is not a huge job, even if a new overside drain point is required. The cost will be in the joinery changes. And not necessarily just in the obvious cupboards - for example floor coverings are may not be continuous under existing cupboards necessities substantial rework.

 

So without knowing anything about the amount of work you would need to do to your target boat, or importantly the standard you would like it done to it is difficult to give any £ figure for the work - but figure on thousands not hundreds unless you do it mostly yourself using very cheap materials. Experience also says whatever you budget it will end up being considerably more and take longer than your worst estimate.

 

My advice for what it is worth, is choose a boat you can live with for awhile (with only cosmetic changes) and then after some experience you can make a better judgement as to what you need versus what you would like and the available budget.

 

Good luck and welcome.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Awayonmyboat
Typo corrections

[blackrose]

16 minutes ago, Awayonmyboat said:

 

My advice for what it is worth, is choose a boat you can live with for awhile (with only cosmetic your changes) and then after some experience you can make a better judgement as to what you need versus what you would like and the available budget.

 

 

I agree with this. If as it sounds it's going to be your first boat you won't really know what suits you best until you've lived with it for a year or two. You may think you have a specific idea of how you want the interior now, but this is likely to change over time and with experience. So save yourself all the hassle now and resist the temptation to start ripping out and reinstalling things in different places, etc. 

 

Also, I keep saying this in other threads, never choose form over function when choosing fixtures, fitting out or changing the interior of a boat. Primarily it's got to be a boat and everything else is secondary. You might want to change the location of a sink for example but in order to gravity drain that sink (the simplest and best method) you may end up with a skin fitting too close or even below the waterline. Think these things through carefully before wading in and changing things - that sink might be there for a reason.

Edited March 10, 2021 by blackrose

[LadyG]

Is this a narrow boat,  'cos a bunk on either side may look good, but a double bed must be preferred in winter. Though there is one with  Tower Bridge style bunks which form a double, but that double will inevitably have a gap in the middle! 

Agree with others, you want to avoid the narrow passage look, it might be a squash if you are both going in opposite directions.!

Maybe you should look at some reverse layout boats... 

I've been living aboard two years, and the advice to leave things alone for the first year was ignored, but should not have been ignored. Each tweak has pros, and cons!! 

Nothing is perfect, in life or in liveaboard boats. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by LadyG

[Athy]

24 minutes ago, Awayonmyboat said:

 

 

My advice for what it is worth, is choose a boat you can live with for awhile (with only cosmetic your changes) and then after some experience you can make a better judgement as to what you need versus what you would like and the available budget.

 

Good luck and welcome.

Yes to all that.

Also ask yourself, if your layout plan seems such a good idea, why have so few boats got such an arrangement?

[Arthur Marshall]

My boat had to be stripped to the metal when it was first resteeled, and I thought of changing the layout then - actually, from a walk through into a U shaped kitchen arrangement.  When i worked it out, everything was then in the wrong place, including all the windows!  The odds are that if you start moving the walls, you'll find holes in the ceiling where they were, so you'll have to replace the ceiling.  Plumbing and 12v wiring is easy enough - in fact it all is, really, but doing it well either means you're going to spend years at it, or pay someone an awful lot of money. The rule of two out of three - quick, good, cheap - holds for this as everything else.  I put everything back more or less where it had been. I reckon it cost a couple of thousand, doing it all myself, and that was for a boat with a 23 foot cabin, twenty years ago.  Decent quality wood aint cheap.  Cheap wood is horrible.

I think a boat fitter who was quoting for a friend reckoned it was something like £400 a foot, and that was a few years ago. That may just have been for the joinery.

[Tracy D'arth]

I think that this is impractical. You will end up totally refitting a boat to achieve a central corridor as none I have ever seen are like this because it limits the layout severely.

 

You really want a walk through shower room with no privacy and separate single beds on opposite sides? Its very "hire boat" ish.

 

Have you actually had or used a boat for a while?

[LadyG]

14 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

My boat had to be stripped to the metal when it was first resteeled, and I thought of changing the layout then - actually, from a walk through into a U shaped kitchen arrangement.  When i worked it out, everything was then in the wrong place, including all the windows!  The odds are that if you start moving the walls, you'll find holes in the ceiling where they were, so you'll have to replace the ceiling.  Plumbing and 12v wiring is easy enough - in fact it all is, really, but doing it well either means you're going to spend years at it, or pay someone an awful lot of money. The rule of two out of three - quick, good, cheap - holds for this as everything else.  I put everything back more or less where it had been. I reckon it cost a couple of thousand, doing it all myself, and that was for a boat with a 23 foot cabin, twenty years ago.  Decent quality wood aint cheap.  Cheap wood is horrible.

I think a boat fitter who was quoting for a friend reckoned it was something like £400 a foot, and that was a few years ago. That may just have been for the joinery.

Wise words

[doratheexplorer]

If you do this, expect to have to re-ballast the boat.

[LadyG]

First bit of advice, in fact the only bit of advice I ever got about my boat was that I should put all the paving stones which were outside the boat, back inside. 

By the time I moved on board, bought some coal, filled diesel and watertanks, plus bedding, cat food, my food, beer kellar, bike, tools, anchor, chain, etc, the thing was no longer tippy from bow to stern, or port to starboard, and now sits on the waterline., pretty much level in all planes. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by LadyG

[system 4-50]

Is the central passageway requirement because of physical impairment of some sort?

[canals are us?]

My shower room was off a corridor and changed it to a walk through bathroom. This enabled me to have units and appliances to fit both sides of the galley on my 50ft trad. Corridor to bedroom was on left of the first picture. 2nd pic of New Galley door was where the original shower cubicle was with corridor wall removed to right. 3rd photo door on left to bedroom.

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by canals are us?