Sunken narrow boat

[Daniel Grantham]

Hi I have just put a deposit on a narrow boat of 10 percent through a broker  I did a bit of research on the boat and found that the seller was a boat company who bought it as a sunken boat and refurbished it ; I contacted the boat company direct and they confirmed it had been a sunken boat but was unsure of why it sank but said they refurbished it and gave me a year old hull survey report which states the base plate readings were 7.3 to 9.9 which includes starboard start of swim ; some dormant pitting of a loss of 1.5 to 2.0 the uxter plate 77.8.0, /hull sides 4.3-5.0 / and a1.2 mar length of the hull side above the starboard uxter plate had 6mm fabrication nominal plate and guards had underlying corrosive activity , once I read this I started to panic and I’m thinking of asking for my deposit back , as the broker never told me this was a sunken repaired boat just that it had been refurbished can anyone help or advice me please thank you 

[mrsmelly]

Firstly find out exactly who owns the boat. Is it on brokerage or owned by the supposed broker? 

[Tracy D'arth]

Your measurements in your post are unclear but if the  price is right they may not be too serious.

How old is the boat and who was the hull builder?

 

Boats can sink for many reasons, not just rust holes in the hull. Cruiser stern boats often sink due to rain water if left unattended for a long time. Many get sunk in locks due to accidental cilling.

 

More details please.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[Daniel Grantham]

8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Firstly find out exactly who owns the boat. Is it on brokerage or owned by the supposed broker? 

I’ve found out who owns the boat and it’s nothing to do with the broker it’s a separate business

4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Your measurements in your post are unclear but if the  price is right they may not be too serious.

How old is the boat and who was the hull builder?

Built in 1994 club line was the builder

6 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Your measurements in your post are unclear but if the  price is right they may not be too serious.

How old is the boat and who was the hull builder?

Built 1994 by club line 

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Daniel Grantham said:

I’ve found out who owns the boat and it’s nothing to do with the broker it’s a separate business

The broker is only an agent telling you the boat is for sale and handling the transaction, he is not responsible for the boat IF he doesn't own it. That is why you need your own survey to tell you the condition of the boat. 

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, Daniel Grantham said:

I’ve found out who owns the boat and it’s nothing to do with the broker it’s a separate business

Built in 1994 club line was the builder

If I read the thickness measurements correctly ( difficult as some make no sense )  they are what I could expect for a 26 year old boat.

[dmr]

I wouldn't worry too much about base plate thickness etc, boats most often sink due to silly accidents. My concern is that if it was refitted by somebody just wanting to turn a quick profit that corners might have been cut, stuff (like sub floor timbers) that should have been inspected and maybe replaced might just have been dried out with crossed fingers.

 

...........Dave

[ditchcrawler]

Here is one reason why boats sink. its probably the same age

 

 https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/londoner-s-horror-as-houseboat-sinks-with-all-of-her-possessions-on-board-a3509466.html

[Bee]

If its had a happy trouble free life since sinking and it is OK now then it is what it is right now. Probably sank in floods or lock mishap or someone left the weed hatch off. If it has sprayfoam insulation and a nice dry bilge then I would not worry any more. Slight concern about corrosion beneath the guard irons but 'Dormant pitting' might indicate that the boat has been painted and perhaps looked after. If you proceed I would mention these few things and any others that crop up.

[Daniel Grantham]

5 minutes ago, Bee said:

If its had a happy trouble free life since sinking and it is OK now then it is what it is right now. Probably sank in floods or lock mishap or someone left the weed hatch off. If it has sprayfoam insulation and a nice dry bilge then I would not worry any more. Slight concern about corrosion beneath the guard irons but 'Dormant pitting' might indicate that the boat has been painted and perhaps looked after. If you proceed I would mention these few things and any others that crop up.

Thank you

[blackrose]

25 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

The broker is only an agent telling you the boat is for sale and handling the transaction, he is not responsible for the boat IF he doesn't own it. That is why you need your own survey to tell you the condition of the boat. 

Yes, a previous survey commissioned by someone else should serve only as a basis on which to commission your own survey. Read nothing more into it than that. 

43 minutes ago, Daniel Grantham said:

...and I’m thinking of asking for my deposit back , as the broker never told me this was a sunken repaired boat just that it had been refurbished can anyone help or advice me please thank you 

 

If you're having second thoughts and you're entitled to get your deposit back on the basis that the broker didn't disclose the boat's history or any other reason (including just changing your mind), then get your deposit back. I guess it depends on the terms and conditions that you entered into when you handed the deposit over.

[blackrose]

29 minutes ago, dmr said:

I wouldn't worry too much about base plate thickness etc, boats most often sink due to silly accidents. My concern is that if it was refitted by somebody just wanting to turn a quick profit that corners might have been cut, stuff (like sub floor timbers) that should have been inspected and maybe replaced might just have been dried out with crossed fingers.

 

...........Dave

Yes if you go ahead get your surveyor to check the integrity of the wooden sub-floor. I keep meeting people that bought boats and the surveyor didn't spot that the floor was rotten because the boat had had lots of water in the bilges at some point, or because of leaking waste pipes, etc.

Edited December 28, 2020 by blackrose

[matty40s]

Theres some very nice boats get sunk when rivers rise...and even canals.

There is quite a lot of debris and damage done to the Grand Union towpath moorers below Stoke Bruerne to Cosgrove. Stuff fallen off roofs into water or onto towpath, a work bench chained to towpath and now in cut, a boat sunk at Cosgrove etc.

When you moor on a canal, you dont expect a 3 foot rise in water levels, you tie quite tight to stop passing boats spilling your hot kettle just as you are making tea.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Daniel Grantham said:

Thank you

 

Just remember that a broker has no obligation to tell you anything about the boat - he SHOULD (morally, but not legally required) answer any specific questions that you ask. If you ask a specific "is this sunk recovered" he should answer honestly.

 

If you ask 'is the boat refurbished' he can honestly answer yes.

 

I bought a boat in the knowledge it was sunk recovered and the main problem after getting the rotting wood and smell out was the engine.

It needed a lot of work and pretty much all new ancilliaries (starter motor & alternator) and various 'bits and bobs.

 

How long was it under water ?

Was the engine PROPERLY recovered after immersion ?

Was the hull dried out properly and checked  ? (woodwork, insulation etc)

Has it been running since recovery ?

Why did it sink ?

 

NOW THE IMPORTANT BIT

 

If the seller is selling in the course of a business (ie not a private sale) you have all sorts of legal protection under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (replaces the old Sale of Goods Act)

If you buy the boat you can expect it to be 'fit for purpose', & 'as described'. You also (bu law) have a 6 month guarantee where you can retun the boat without giving a reason.

 

Read up on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to see all of your rights.

 

If it is being sold by a Private Seller (via a Broker) you have absolutely NO RIGHTs and no come back literally Caveat Emptor (Buyer beware)

 

 

 

[Daniel Grantham]

46 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Just remember that a broker has no obligation to tell you anything about the boat - he SHOULD (morally, but not legally required) answer any specific questions that you ask. If you ask a specific "is this sunk recovered" he should answer honestly.

 

If you ask 'is the boat refurbished' he can honestly answer yes.

 

I bought a boat in the knowledge it was sunk recovered and the main problem after getting the rotting wood and smell out was the engine.

It needed a lot of work and pretty much all new ancilliaries (starter motor & alternator) and various 'bits and bobs.

 

How long was it under water ?

Was the engine PROPERLY recovered after immersion ?

Was the hull dried out properly and checked  ? (woodwork, insulation etc)

Has it been running since recovery ?

Why did it sink ?

 

NOW THE IMPORTANT BIT

 

If the seller is selling in the course of a business (ie not a private sale) you have all sorts of legal protection under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (replaces the old Sale of Goods Act)

If you buy the boat you can expect it to be 'fit for purpose', & 'as described'. You also (bu law) have a 6 month guarantee where you can retun the boat without giving a reason.

 

Read up on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to see all of your rights.

 

If it is being sold by a Private Seller (via a Broker) you have absolutely NO RIGHTs and no come back literally Caveat Emptor (Buyer beware)

 

 

 

It’s being sold by a boat designer a ltd company through a broker

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Daniel Grantham said:

It’s being sold by a boat designer a ltd company through a broker

 

Is it being sold by an individual who works for the ltd company, OR, is it the property of the company.

(I own a couple of Ltd companies but my boats are still 'personally' owned, the Tractors - for example - are company owned)

 

I bought a boat from a company and had huge (expensive) problems with it, tried to claim against the surveyor for not noticing it needed £20k+ spending on it. Solicitor threw it out.

Tried to take the company to court as selling a boat 'not fit for purpose' to find that the day before I paid for it the ownership was transferred to the Finanace Director so it became a 'private sale'.

 

It is VERY important to find out who you are buying it from

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

11 hours ago, Daniel Grantham said:

It’s being sold by a boat designer a ltd company through a broker

If this is a boat that was built to comply with the RCD and has been substantially altered in the fit out, should it not be re-certified before sale by the re-fitter?

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If this is a boat that was built to comply with the RCD and has been substantially altered in the fit out, should it not be re-certified before sale by the re-fitter?

If any aspect of safety or emissions has been affected (new engine, new gas system, altering of ballast/buoyancy etc) then the answer is YES.

 

But - it is a 1994 boat so not built to be RCD compliant. (RCD didn't come into force until June 1998)

 

Edit to remove spurious and excessive lettersss in some words

Edited December 29, 2020 by Alan de Enfield