Sawley tempted

[PaulJ]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Market Harborough is the theoretical limit for wide beams, although I have heard it said that lack of dredging and vegetation growth mean that passage of boats much wider than 7 ft may be difficult in places.

Yep- agree with that-reckon it would be a bit of a squeeze in places ?

Never personally been on the Soar (on a widebeam) any further South than Pilings-took Alans post a bit literally as I was trying to remember a pinch point just below leicester!

[calara]

To get back to the original question - logistics and timings for crossing the Wash....

 

There are good (but not really flood safe) moorings at Peterborough. This is probably the best place to wait for a weather window, although the Nene Cruising Club just upstream has always had good reviews. There is a mooring at Dog in a Doublet, but it's a bit of a desolate place. If the pub's still open it might be an option. When you're reasonably sure of a route across make you way down to Wisbech on the best tide the day before you go. They'll charge you a bit (hence not to stay for long), but they are helpful and friendly. If you take a pilot they will know to meet you there.

 

You have to wait out 1 tide on the crossing, so you won't get to Boston for 12 hours. CRT are being twats about opening the lock at Boston (obviously a manager who doesn't understand tides and doesn't want to pay overtime!), and there's nowhere to stop below it - so hopefully the tide timings will be favourable for you. There used to be a floating pontoon at Black Sluice that no-one ever used and has a big no mooring sign on it - I'd just stop on that if it's still there and I arrived out of hours and argue with anyone who challenges you.

 

From Boston no more that two days to Lincoln (there's not a great deal to see, but some of the towns are OK), and another half day to Torksey. We always drop down the lock at Torksey as soon as we can and wait for the tide below - there's a cracking pub there - the visitor mooring above is miles up the Fossdyke. You'll need to wait for a tide up the Trent to Cromwell (nothing too serious) - one day should get you to at least Newark. After that one good day (or two easy ones) to Nottingham, and another day to Sawley from there. Of course you can go slower if you see somewhere you like the look of.

 

We've previously had our barge in both Mercia and Sawley. Mercia is nicer, but there are a few low bridges on the canal which makes access awkward - plus there are narrow boats everywhere on that stretch, and not much room or experience! Don't bother going any further west than Willington - as mentioned Horninglow is your westerly limit - but if you want to go to Burton there's a reasonably good bus service! We thought Sawley was OK - the flooding has been reduced by the goods yard on the road opposite building a higher flood bank, but big floods will still be an issue. The noise from the M1 is dependant on the wind - if it's in the wrong direction you can hear it - but this is a problem in ALL E Mids marinas - except maybe Shardlow & Beeston. Shardlow were only taking narrow boats and cruisers when we asked as they said that bigger boats were too heavy for their pontoons (questionable IMO, but they're their pontoons). You have a better cruising range from Sawley - the Soar is lovely but it's a bit like the Nene and the Avon - large town at the top of a small river that goes into flood as soon as it rains.

 

Hope you have a good trip.

[blackrose]

10 minutes ago, calara said:

To get back to the original question - logistics and timings for crossing the Wash....

 

There are good (but not really flood safe) moorings at Peterborough. This is probably the best place to wait for a weather window, although the Nene Cruising Club just upstream has always had good reviews. There is a mooring at Dog in a Doublet, but it's a bit of a desolate place. If the pub's still open it might be an option. When you're reasonably sure of a route across make you way down to Wisbech on the best tide the day before you go. They'll charge you a bit (hence not to stay for long), but they are helpful and friendly. If you take a pilot they will know to meet you there.

 

You have to wait out 1 tide on the crossing, so you won't get to Boston for 12 hours. CRT are being twats about opening the lock at Boston (obviously a manager who doesn't understand tides and doesn't want to pay overtime!), and there's nowhere to stop below it - so hopefully the tide timings will be favourable for you. There used to be a floating pontoon at Black Sluice that no-one ever used and has a big no mooring sign on it - I'd just stop on that if it's still there and I arrived out of hours and argue with anyone who challenges you.

 

From Boston no more that two days to Lincoln (there's not a great deal to see, but some of the towns are OK), and another half day to Torksey. We always drop down the lock at Torksey as soon as we can and wait for the tide below - there's a cracking pub there - the visitor mooring above is miles up the Fossdyke. You'll need to wait for a tide up the Trent to Cromwell (nothing too serious) - one day should get you to at least Newark. After that one good day (or two easy ones) to Nottingham, and another day to Sawley from there. Of course you can go slower if you see somewhere you like the look of.

 

We've previously had our barge in both Mercia and Sawley. Mercia is nicer, but there are a few low bridges on the canal which makes access awkward - plus there are narrow boats everywhere on that stretch, and not much room or experience! Don't bother going any further west than Willington - as mentioned Horninglow is your westerly limit - but if you want to go to Burton there's a reasonably good bus service! We thought Sawley was OK - the flooding has been reduced by the goods yard on the road opposite building a higher flood bank, but big floods will still be an issue. The noise from the M1 is dependant on the wind - if it's in the wrong direction you can hear it - but this is a problem in ALL E Mids marinas - except maybe Shardlow & Beeston. Shardlow were only taking narrow boats and cruisers when we asked as they said that bigger boats were too heavy for their pontoons (questionable IMO, but they're their pontoons). You have a better cruising range from Sawley - the Soar is lovely but it's a bit like the Nene and the Avon - large town at the top of a small river that goes into flood as soon as it rains.

 

Hope you have a good trip.

 

Thanks for all the info - really useful.

[Alan de Enfield]

55 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Ok, cheers for the contact details. I'm already on the waiting list at Kings.

 

 

Three marinas 'in' Newark, from the West side you have Farndon, Central(ish) is Newark marina and on the east side is Kings.

 

You could try Farndon (the other side of Newark to Kings) they don't accept NB's but no idea if 'fatty's are OK ?

It is more than a 'good walk' into Newark, taxi, car or bus.

 

Worth a call ?

 

Monday to Friday: 9:00 to 5:00
Saturday and Sunday: 10:00 to 5:00 (Winter 4.00)

Telephone: 01636 705 483

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The 'problem' with Sawley, Shardlow and Mercia is the limitations on cruising  - you cannot head West past Burton on Trent, or South past Leicester.

At least from Newark you have got a few days cruising West and South before you have to turn around , and of course, unlimited cruising heading North and East.

 

 

 

 

I suspect that a map labelled British Waterways may be out of date in places. For example, I thought that the River Dee Branch was now closed long term.

 

And I think that Dutton Stop in only 9ft beam.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Mike Todd

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Mike Todd said:

I suspect that a map labelled British Waterways may be out of date in places. For example, I thought that the River Dee Branch was now closed long term.

 

 

Quite probably, but I also doubt that anything that was "narrow" will now be "wide", and that was what I was trying to show.

[Momac]

37 minutes ago, calara said:

There used to be a floating pontoon at Black Sluice that no-one ever used and has a big no mooring sign on it - I'd just stop on that if it's still there and I arrived out of hours and argue with anyone who challenges you.

 

 

Is the Boston barrier almost complete ? I don't know whether that makes the pontoon at Black Sluice usable due to water retained by the barrier ?

https://www.facebook.com/BostonBarrier/photos/2705014586405451

 

[Momac]

44 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You could try Farndon (the other side of Newark to Kings) they don't accept NB's but no idea if 'fatty's are OK ?

I don't  know where that came from as there are one or two narrow boats in Farndon and some widebeams.

Availability of suitable space is a governing factor as most of the marina is arranged for cruisers  . Only a small number of  liveabords are permitted .

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by MartynG

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

I don't  know where that came from as there are one or two narrow boats in Farndon and some widebeams.

Its a few years ago, but when I enquired for my NB I was told they were trying to get rid of the few NBs they had and were not taking anymore as they "take up too much space" (length)

 

It is ceratinly a bit tight (I would think) for a full length NB - trying to get around the entrance and onto the visitors moorings by the chadlery is not the easiest.

[Momac]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Its a few years ago, but when I enquired for my NB I was told they were trying to get rid of the few NBs they had and were not taking anymore as they "take up too much space" (length)

 

It is ceratinly a bit tight (I would think) for a full length NB - trying to get around the entrance and onto the visitors moorings by the chadlery is not the easiest.

Some of the bigger wide beams are on the pontoon just inside the marina entrance. But there are a few widebeams within the main body of the marina and at least one full size narrowboat. Farndon  is certainly a cruiser dominated marina .

This one fits okay 

https://www.farndonmarina.co.uk/brokerage/boat-listings/257-piper-49m-carpe-diem

 

 

The fees are based on boat length so not really an issue but the number of available spaces for longer boats  (above about 40ft ) is limited .

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

This one fits okay 

https://www.farndonmarina.co.uk/brokerage/boat-listings/257-piper-49m-carpe-diem

 

 

The fees are based on boat length so not really an issue but the number of available spaces for longer boats  (above about 40ft ) is limited .

 

Tidy !!! (and not expensive).

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Three marinas 'in' Newark, from the West side you have Farndon, Central(ish) is Newark marina and on the east side is Kings.

 

You could try Farndon (the other side of Newark to Kings) they don't accept NB's but no idea if 'fatty's are OK ?

It is more than a 'good walk' into Newark, taxi, car or bus.

 

Worth a call ?

 

Monday to Friday: 9:00 to 5:00
Saturday and Sunday: 10:00 to 5:00 (Winter 4.00)

Telephone: 01636 705 483

 

 

Thanks, I'll give them a call.

 

Edit: No liveaboards apparently.

Edited December 8, 2020 by blackrose

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Tidy !!! (and not expensive).

It is very well kept . Not used as a live aboard .

 

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

On 07/12/2020 at 18:11, blackrose said:

I've tried canal plan again with my boat dimensions and just getting the message "Couldn't calculate route". Not sure what I'm doing wrong but the website could probably do with a more user friendly update.

You need to permit seaways  in the preferences. I would say 5 days from Peterborough, subject to weather on the Wash. PS I like it that canalplan recommends against overnight mooring in the Wash, and reports the headroom is unlimited ...

On 08/12/2020 at 15:35, MartynG said:

Is the Boston barrier almost complete ? I don't know whether that makes the pontoon at Black Sluice usable due to water retained by the barrier ?

https://www.facebook.com/BostonBarrier/photos/2705014586405451

 

No it doesnt change the useability of the pontoon. The barrier will only be used in flood conditions. The pilot won't get on board unless you have a booking at Boston . (He is also trying to get accredited as a crt volunteer so he can operate the lock himself).

Edited December 10, 2020 by Scholar Gypsy

[Momac]

58 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

No it doesnt change the useability of the pontoon. The barrier will only be used in flood conditions. The pilot won't get on board unless you have a booking at Boston . (He is also trying to get accredited as a crt volunteer so he can operate the lock himself).

I thought  the barrier would be raised before low tide to retain water on its upstream side . But it seems not.

[David Mack]

On 08/12/2020 at 15:17, Mike Todd said:

And I think that Dutton Stop in only 9ft beam.

Map is correct in that it shows Preston Brook Tunnel and Dutton Stop Lock as narrow. The wide section of the T&M between Dutton and Croxton Aqueduct is accessible to wide boats only via the Anderton Lift.

[calara]

8 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

The pilot won't get on board unless you have a booking at Boston . (He is also trying to get accredited as a crt volunteer so he can operate the lock himself).

Hmmn - so how would he get off to operate the lock? Presumably we are talking about Daryl - is there no-one else piloting right across now?

 

If the only weather window for weeks meant that I had to arrive in Boston out of hours (pilot or no pilot) I'd still wait at Black Sluis until waterways get the lock open (like they're supposed to) - assuming it's still there.

[PaulJ]

On 08/12/2020 at 15:17, Mike Todd said:

 

And I think that Dutton Stop in only 9ft beam.

 

5 hours ago, David Mack said:

Map is correct in that it shows Preston Brook Tunnel and Dutton Stop Lock as narrow. The wide section of the T&M between Dutton and Croxton Aqueduct is accessible to wide boats only via the Anderton Lift.

I think the answer to that is you can only get fairly narrow widebeams through! 

Northern end of Saltersford Tunnel and some of the wiggly bits in Barnton was about the tightest bit -this is on one of the 9fters which were specifically made to squeeze through by Narrowboats Ltd at Wincham Wharf

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

1 hour ago, calara said:

Hmmn - so how would he get off to operate the lock? Presumably we are talking about Daryl - is there no-one else piloting right across now?

 

If the only weather window for weeks meant that I had to arrive in Boston out of hours (pilot or no pilot) I'd still wait at Black Sluis until waterways get the lock open (like they're supposed to) - assuming it's still there.

Yes, that's him.  I am not aware of anyone else at the moment.  This is a readout of a conversation a boating buddy had with him a couple of months ago, when she did the crossing.  I think there is a ladder of some sort just outside the lock, or I suppose you could hop off at Black Sluice pontoon, and jog along to Grand Sluice....  

I managed to wangle a visit to the control room last year, though I was not allowed to press any buttons.

[ditchcrawler]

46 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

 

I think the answer to that is you can only get fairly narrow widebeams through! 

Northern end of Saltersford Tunnel and some of the wiggly bits in Barnton was about the tightest bit -this is on one of the 9fters which were specifically made to squeeze through by Narrowboats Ltd at Wincham Wharf

 

As I posted when this came up before, a boat from Parkfarm made his way through there and I was told did so much damage he wouldn't come back

[calara]

3 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I think there is a ladder of some sort just outside the lock,

Ah yes - there's a tiny wharf just below - I forgot about that. I wonder if you'd be able to ride out a tide there? As long as you don't have a keel - I don't think I ever had a look at low water.

 

I also got to go in the cabin and watch the trip boat come through - 5 years ago now. The lock keeper really knew his stuff - when to open the gates and when not to. Last time through in 2018 there was a new guy who wasn't so confident (and didn't much like it when I baled because I didn't like the look of the weather - rightly as it turned out). It's not rocket science, but you do have to understand what's happening.

[Scholar Gypsy]

32 minutes ago, calara said:

Ah yes - there's a tiny wharf just below - I forgot about that. I wonder if you'd be able to ride out a tide there? As long as you don't have a keel - I don't think I ever had a look at low water.

 

I also got to go in the cabin and watch the trip boat come through - 5 years ago now. The lock keeper really knew his stuff - when to open the gates and when not to. Last time through in 2018 there was a new guy who wasn't so confident (and didn't much like it when I baled because I didn't like the look of the weather - rightly as it turned out). It's not rocket science, but you do have to understand what's happening.

I think it would be fine to take the ground at low tide. Rather more exciting if (as when we were there last summer) the river is in flood and the sluice is fully drawn (photo below). I think I would tie a long line onto the ladder - to right of this photo, between the lock and the sluice.

[Alan de Enfield]

On 08/12/2020 at 15:02, blackrose said:

Thanks for all the info - really useful.

Not sure if you are still planning the move (or when) but the work at Stamp End Lock (Lincoln) has identified that the work needed is more extensive than originally thought and the planned completion date is now mid-February.

Navigation is closed until the repair is completed.

 

You cannot now access the Trent except by going up the East coast, up the Humber and then join the bottom of the Trent

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You cannot now access the Trent except by going up the East coast, up the Humber and then join the bottom of the Trent

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

Thats always a possibility but the plan is (was) to go across the Wash and up the Witham, that option is currently no longer available.